Why are those Germans laughing at us.
17 March 2000, 02:40 PM
#1
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Well I'm never buying a BMW again.
Actually, I've never had one yet either but that's only because the majority of owners are T0SSERS. Did anyone see the programe on ITV last night that stated BMW sell 3-4% of all the cars it produces in the UK. It then went on to say that 30% of all BMW's worldwide profits are made from these sales to the UK. The programme then produced a BMW headed document which detailed ways of prolonging the injustice of charging us sky high prices and making it virtually impossible to import one of their German dustbins from Europe at a reasonable rate.
Basically, these BARS7ARDS dismantle and destroy our motoring industry, then expect us to buy their overpriced over-rated tin cans at massively inflated prices. The people in Munich are laughing at us.
God I hope we beat them on penalties this time around.
Actually, I've never had one yet either but that's only because the majority of owners are T0SSERS. Did anyone see the programe on ITV last night that stated BMW sell 3-4% of all the cars it produces in the UK. It then went on to say that 30% of all BMW's worldwide profits are made from these sales to the UK. The programme then produced a BMW headed document which detailed ways of prolonging the injustice of charging us sky high prices and making it virtually impossible to import one of their German dustbins from Europe at a reasonable rate.
Basically, these BARS7ARDS dismantle and destroy our motoring industry, then expect us to buy their overpriced over-rated tin cans at massively inflated prices. The people in Munich are laughing at us.
God I hope we beat them on penalties this time around.
17 March 2000, 02:49 PM
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Overheard the bloke down the road talking to his mate:
Man 1: "Terrible that BMW is shafting Rover"
Man 2: "What do you expect from a bunch of *****!"
note that these are NOT my personal views!
BMW is gonna get a lot of bad press for this.
Guess they're trying to make it up to us by lifting the ban on British Beef!
Man 1: "Terrible that BMW is shafting Rover"
Man 2: "What do you expect from a bunch of *****!"
note that these are NOT my personal views!
BMW is gonna get a lot of bad press for this.
Guess they're trying to make it up to us by lifting the ban on British Beef!
17 March 2000, 04:01 PM
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Orville >>>
What a load of xenophobic b******* you're coming out with. BMW have been pouring money into rover for years, and have received nothing but losses in return. I'm surprised that they've kept them for this long.
BMW are running a business. If people in this country are prepared to pay X thousand for their cars, then why should they sell them for less? The same applies to IM and the £6K markup on Impreza turbos over Euro prices. If you were selling something, wouldn't you get the most for it that you could? Nobody forces anybody in this country to buy BMWs - we all have a choice.
So, cut out the emotional small-minded nationalistic c*** and try to look out the situation with a bit of common (business) sense. If you felt so strongly about rover, why didn't you sell your subaru (I assume you have one) and buy a rover instead? or is that something which other people are supposed to do while you blast around in your AWD Jap car?
Gary.
[This message has been edited by GCollier (edited 17-03-2000).]
What a load of xenophobic b******* you're coming out with. BMW have been pouring money into rover for years, and have received nothing but losses in return. I'm surprised that they've kept them for this long.
BMW are running a business. If people in this country are prepared to pay X thousand for their cars, then why should they sell them for less? The same applies to IM and the £6K markup on Impreza turbos over Euro prices. If you were selling something, wouldn't you get the most for it that you could? Nobody forces anybody in this country to buy BMWs - we all have a choice.
So, cut out the emotional small-minded nationalistic c*** and try to look out the situation with a bit of common (business) sense. If you felt so strongly about rover, why didn't you sell your subaru (I assume you have one) and buy a rover instead? or is that something which other people are supposed to do while you blast around in your AWD Jap car?
Gary.
[This message has been edited by GCollier (edited 17-03-2000).]
17 March 2000, 04:12 PM
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I don't think the problem is BMW getting rid of Rover I think the problem is the way it was done
No discussion with the UK government
Splitting Rover into small bits
Giving Longbridge to Short term venture capitalists, who aim to make a s
Keeping the good bits (such as Cowley)
If they had spoken to the government and sold the whole lot to ford (or Volkswagon) the future might look rather different. The way it has been done looks almost as those it is intended toi dismantle the UK car industry (or what was left of it). Nobody asked BMW to buy it for 800m (and they have sold it for 2000m)
Paul
[This message has been edited by pnebbs (edited 17-03-2000).]
No discussion with the UK government
Splitting Rover into small bits
Giving Longbridge to Short term venture capitalists, who aim to make a s
Keeping the good bits (such as Cowley)
If they had spoken to the government and sold the whole lot to ford (or Volkswagon) the future might look rather different. The way it has been done looks almost as those it is intended toi dismantle the UK car industry (or what was left of it). Nobody asked BMW to buy it for 800m (and they have sold it for 2000m)
Paul
[This message has been edited by pnebbs (edited 17-03-2000).]
17 March 2000, 04:14 PM
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The worst you can say about BMW is that they were stupid enough to buy Rover in the first place. If I was cyninical I'd say it was to get some tech help for the X5, they then get Ford to stump up the cash which pays for the disposal.
B-usiness
M-eans
W-ar
B-usiness
M-eans
W-ar
17 March 2000, 04:36 PM
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BMW did not just pay £800 million, they also assumed £900 million in debt.
The problems started in the 60/70's when the company was cobbled together out of loads of seperate parts and run by the Government. If all the companies had remained separate chances are some would have gone bust, but the rest would have been so much better.
The problems started in the 60/70's when the company was cobbled together out of loads of seperate parts and run by the Government. If all the companies had remained separate chances are some would have gone bust, but the rest would have been so much better.
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17 March 2000, 05:23 PM
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GCollier,
I assume from your comments that you own, have owned, or intned to own a BMW then. I agree that every manufacturer overcharges the Britsh public, but not all of them produce official documents stating ways of doing and prolonging this. So far only Volvo have been put through the mincer for fixing UK prices. BMW have now been proved doing the same thing and deserve all of the adverse press they get. Please also remember that Rover have made record losses under the management of BMW, even though massive Goverment subsidies have previously been given.
BMW bought Rover because they thought they would make a profit. They assumed the Goverment would heavily subsidise all future development and didn't bargain for the EC stepping in. Now they are dooming Rover and its staff.
BMW's biggest failing so far was that they failed to change Rover's image. Unless they now begin to change their own image their fall will be long and hard. Just as well for them there is an abundance of T0SSERS in this country though.
I assume from your comments that you own, have owned, or intned to own a BMW then. I agree that every manufacturer overcharges the Britsh public, but not all of them produce official documents stating ways of doing and prolonging this. So far only Volvo have been put through the mincer for fixing UK prices. BMW have now been proved doing the same thing and deserve all of the adverse press they get. Please also remember that Rover have made record losses under the management of BMW, even though massive Goverment subsidies have previously been given.
BMW bought Rover because they thought they would make a profit. They assumed the Goverment would heavily subsidise all future development and didn't bargain for the EC stepping in. Now they are dooming Rover and its staff.
BMW's biggest failing so far was that they failed to change Rover's image. Unless they now begin to change their own image their fall will be long and hard. Just as well for them there is an abundance of T0SSERS in this country though.
17 March 2000, 05:29 PM
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Also, apparently BMW have kept all the hard research work done for the 45 replacement, so they can use it for their new small car. This completely ruins Rover's chances of having an up-to-date product range in a few years...
Richard
Richard
17 March 2000, 05:46 PM
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Come on guys.
Its not BMW's fault if the british car buying public is stupid enough to pay over the odds for their product.
Neither is it BMW's fault that Rover is a dying duck. Years of incompetent management and shop floor british shoot yourself in the foot attitude has brought that about.
Agreed, they shouldn't have bought it it in the first place - thats the only thing they should be faulted for.
D
Its not BMW's fault if the british car buying public is stupid enough to pay over the odds for their product.
Neither is it BMW's fault that Rover is a dying duck. Years of incompetent management and shop floor british shoot yourself in the foot attitude has brought that about.
Agreed, they shouldn't have bought it it in the first place - thats the only thing they should be faulted for.
D
17 March 2000, 07:25 PM
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Thoughts....
...VW have really fixed Skoda; dead duck Renault is now successful and is fixing dead duck Nissan - in a shorter timescales - so the fact that the Rover brand is pants is not a valid excuse...
...BMW have not made a clear profit from selling Rover - it cost 1.7bn GBP to buy and, although they have got 1.85bn GBP for Land Rover, they are paying Alcemy to take Rover off their hands AND will be charged with all the redundancy costs...
...HM Gov agreed a significant grant for BMW to co-invest in Longbridge, however Porsche threatened to take HM Gov to Court on an anti-competition ticket under European Law...
...when a business can only sell HALF it's output then it should halve it's production - or go out of business...
...BMW had no real experience of multiple brand management, their core skill was luxury brand management...
...and FINALLY, don't forget this is also a signal of the end of BMW as one of the most successful independent car manufacturers in the world - don't be surprised to see a headline noting a merger - who with remains to be seen.
R
PS I am never buying a BMW again either - my company coupe goes back in four weeks time!
...VW have really fixed Skoda; dead duck Renault is now successful and is fixing dead duck Nissan - in a shorter timescales - so the fact that the Rover brand is pants is not a valid excuse...
...BMW have not made a clear profit from selling Rover - it cost 1.7bn GBP to buy and, although they have got 1.85bn GBP for Land Rover, they are paying Alcemy to take Rover off their hands AND will be charged with all the redundancy costs...
...HM Gov agreed a significant grant for BMW to co-invest in Longbridge, however Porsche threatened to take HM Gov to Court on an anti-competition ticket under European Law...
...when a business can only sell HALF it's output then it should halve it's production - or go out of business...
...BMW had no real experience of multiple brand management, their core skill was luxury brand management...
...and FINALLY, don't forget this is also a signal of the end of BMW as one of the most successful independent car manufacturers in the world - don't be surprised to see a headline noting a merger - who with remains to be seen.
R
PS I am never buying a BMW again either - my company coupe goes back in four weeks time!
17 March 2000, 08:43 PM
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I don't think BMW are completely at fault here. I read in the motoring press last week that if Rover had paid each of their employees £30,000 last year to stay at home, they would have been at less of a financial loss. Surely no one can expect BMW to keep throwing money away like that.
P.S. I don't drive nor do I want to drive a BMW, that's just what I read somewhere.
Dave-W
[This message has been edited by DAVE-W (edited 17-03-2000).]
P.S. I don't drive nor do I want to drive a BMW, that's just what I read somewhere.
Dave-W
[This message has been edited by DAVE-W (edited 17-03-2000).]
17 March 2000, 09:32 PM
#13
What's your point dave, all that statement says is that Rover was losing money, everyone know that.
After 6 years of BMW management the brand has declined, that is due to poor management, end of story. Skoda is a very good example of a company being managed by a brilliant team.
BMW has controlled all the add campaigns and future development for a very long time now, i know from talking to some of the design engineers inside Rover that BMW have cancelled some very exciting projects that rover had up and running and would have helped promote the brand in a dynamic way.
BMW have a lot to answer for, the way they are disposing of it is aimed at causing maximum damage to a competitor and is deplorable.
To try and put the blaim on the UK government policy is extreemly nieve, they knew the score on the pound v euro debate in the UK before they bought Rover and to have a business plan that relies on the UK having the same exchange rate as europe is quite frankly absurd.
There have been some very interesting comments comming from Ford management today on why they feel it OK to build in the UK and why they bought Land Rover. BMW are simply trying to divert the flack from themselves and blame someone else for their incompetence.
After 6 years of BMW management the brand has declined, that is due to poor management, end of story. Skoda is a very good example of a company being managed by a brilliant team.
BMW has controlled all the add campaigns and future development for a very long time now, i know from talking to some of the design engineers inside Rover that BMW have cancelled some very exciting projects that rover had up and running and would have helped promote the brand in a dynamic way.
BMW have a lot to answer for, the way they are disposing of it is aimed at causing maximum damage to a competitor and is deplorable.
To try and put the blaim on the UK government policy is extreemly nieve, they knew the score on the pound v euro debate in the UK before they bought Rover and to have a business plan that relies on the UK having the same exchange rate as europe is quite frankly absurd.
There have been some very interesting comments comming from Ford management today on why they feel it OK to build in the UK and why they bought Land Rover. BMW are simply trying to divert the flack from themselves and blame someone else for their incompetence.
17 March 2000, 10:09 PM
#14
John F.
Couldn't agree with you more. BMW Management are pants, which is why three krauts were made to walk the plank over the Rover debacle. To$$ers. Rumour is that the "Adolf" family, who own a controlling stake, will be happy to dump this turkey at the earliest opportunity.
The nonsense of blaming govt. policy and a rising pound is common, when businesses lose money - did you ever hear of any company reporting that all profits came from lucky market conditions e.g. unforeseen currency gains?? All the bankers know that they should have hedged their Pounds Vs Euros currency risks at least a year in advance. If they in fact cocked this up too, I'm not altogether surprised. . .
I also saw Trevor McDoughnut show last night, about BMW's UK price fixing memo and noticed how Mr. BMW smug git was squirming. When presented with clear evidence, he went for the deny-everything-and-it'll-go-away approach. Unfortunately this usually works, as the media has a very short attention span and will most likely move on to the next shock-horror story with little follow-up on this one . . .
But will their sales suffer?? Probably not - the sort of [presumed] arrogant bustards who buy Beemers are unlikely to give a flying fig about a few out of work Northerners.
R.I.P. Rover (down boy)
Suresh
Couldn't agree with you more. BMW Management are pants, which is why three krauts were made to walk the plank over the Rover debacle. To$$ers. Rumour is that the "Adolf" family, who own a controlling stake, will be happy to dump this turkey at the earliest opportunity.
The nonsense of blaming govt. policy and a rising pound is common, when businesses lose money - did you ever hear of any company reporting that all profits came from lucky market conditions e.g. unforeseen currency gains?? All the bankers know that they should have hedged their Pounds Vs Euros currency risks at least a year in advance. If they in fact cocked this up too, I'm not altogether surprised. . .
I also saw Trevor McDoughnut show last night, about BMW's UK price fixing memo and noticed how Mr. BMW smug git was squirming. When presented with clear evidence, he went for the deny-everything-and-it'll-go-away approach. Unfortunately this usually works, as the media has a very short attention span and will most likely move on to the next shock-horror story with little follow-up on this one . . .
But will their sales suffer?? Probably not - the sort of [presumed] arrogant bustards who buy Beemers are unlikely to give a flying fig about a few out of work Northerners.
R.I.P. Rover (down boy)
Suresh
17 March 2000, 11:56 PM
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BMW must take alot of the blame for the failure of the 75 which could have saved Rover. They didn't market it to the right sector of the public and fleet buyers didn;t lap it up due to anticpated poor residual values. Also BMW criticising Rover openly really made peopel reluctant to buy Rover. I have a Rover once and it was ****e and the dealers where the worst in the world. They took on a huge job to turn things around , could have done better, but needed to do something amazing to save Rover.
Let hope Alchemy can do better....now maybe a turbo 4x4 75..mmmm
Let hope Alchemy can do better....now maybe a turbo 4x4 75..mmmm
18 March 2000, 08:20 AM
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Just read in Autocar - to bolster up the brand - Rover underwrote the 75 to fleet managers, guaranteeing a 900 gbp bonus if the car didn't retain a pathetic 38% value after THREE years!
18 March 2000, 02:10 PM
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Orville,
FYI, I have never owned a BMW, and have no plans to do so, but certainly wouldn't rule out one of their M-series cars without driving them.
Why should you care if BMW produce documents explaining how maxiumum money can be extracted from British buyers? I always thought it made sound business sense to maximise profits?
It seems this thread has split opinion between people who can see the sense in BMWs decision, and those blinded by outdated nationalistic pride.
From what I have read, this break-up gives Rover the best chance of being profitable and successful that it has ever head. Sure, there'll be some job losses which is never nice, but the alternative was probably the entire Longbridge plant closing.
I'd be interested to see how many people bitching about BMW actually own or would consider owning Rovers? You condemn BMW drivers for being image-led to$$ers, yet I suspect that one of the reasons you don't own a Rover is that it doesn't have the right image for you, regardless of how good the car is.
Gary.
FYI, I have never owned a BMW, and have no plans to do so, but certainly wouldn't rule out one of their M-series cars without driving them.
Why should you care if BMW produce documents explaining how maxiumum money can be extracted from British buyers? I always thought it made sound business sense to maximise profits?
It seems this thread has split opinion between people who can see the sense in BMWs decision, and those blinded by outdated nationalistic pride.
From what I have read, this break-up gives Rover the best chance of being profitable and successful that it has ever head. Sure, there'll be some job losses which is never nice, but the alternative was probably the entire Longbridge plant closing.
I'd be interested to see how many people bitching about BMW actually own or would consider owning Rovers? You condemn BMW drivers for being image-led to$$ers, yet I suspect that one of the reasons you don't own a Rover is that it doesn't have the right image for you, regardless of how good the car is.
Gary.
18 March 2000, 07:09 PM
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A few points:
Why assume someone owns or wants to own a BMW just because they point out you are taking a purely Nationalistic view?
All BMW owners are t0ssers? I suppose all Subaru drivers are incredibly well endowed and highly intelligent? Sorry - but if you have a genuine concern or a sensible point to make, generalisations like that detract from your argument somewhat. Think about it. Who comes across as the tosser?
Venture Capitalists only make money out of businesses that succeed. If Alchemy don't turn Rover/MG around they will lose money. Serious money.
JohnF has a very good point about the way BMW are going about the sale of Rover. He does this without resorting to unhelpful generalisations or Nationalistic name calling. He's probably right too!
Suresh: What are you talking about on foreign exchange? If you manufacture in the UK and sell overseas, if sterling strengthens you get less sales revenue in sterling. It has litle to do with hedging - which simply guarantees a particular exchange rate at some point in the future. It does not guarantee an exchange rate that makes you profitable. Oh - and do you think your comment about 'arrogant *******s who buy Beemers' is helpful or contributes to your argument?
For your information I have owned a VW, two Rovers, a Renault and a BMW. After the BMW I bought the Subaru. My ***** and IQ immediately grew
On Tuesday I sold the Subaru - my ***** has all but disappeared and I am stupid once more.
And guess what - I bought a BMW. By some people's reckoning I was ok on Monday, but by Tuesday I became complete t0sser, right?
How about restricting coments about this latest unhappy phase of the British motor industry to sensible ones? Or at least keep them tongue in cheek.
[This message has been edited by Andy Holden (edited 18-03-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Andy Holden (edited 18-03-2000).]
Why assume someone owns or wants to own a BMW just because they point out you are taking a purely Nationalistic view?
All BMW owners are t0ssers? I suppose all Subaru drivers are incredibly well endowed and highly intelligent? Sorry - but if you have a genuine concern or a sensible point to make, generalisations like that detract from your argument somewhat. Think about it. Who comes across as the tosser?
Venture Capitalists only make money out of businesses that succeed. If Alchemy don't turn Rover/MG around they will lose money. Serious money.
JohnF has a very good point about the way BMW are going about the sale of Rover. He does this without resorting to unhelpful generalisations or Nationalistic name calling. He's probably right too!
Suresh: What are you talking about on foreign exchange? If you manufacture in the UK and sell overseas, if sterling strengthens you get less sales revenue in sterling. It has litle to do with hedging - which simply guarantees a particular exchange rate at some point in the future. It does not guarantee an exchange rate that makes you profitable. Oh - and do you think your comment about 'arrogant *******s who buy Beemers' is helpful or contributes to your argument?
For your information I have owned a VW, two Rovers, a Renault and a BMW. After the BMW I bought the Subaru. My ***** and IQ immediately grew
On Tuesday I sold the Subaru - my ***** has all but disappeared and I am stupid once more.
And guess what - I bought a BMW. By some people's reckoning I was ok on Monday, but by Tuesday I became complete t0sser, right?
How about restricting coments about this latest unhappy phase of the British motor industry to sensible ones? Or at least keep them tongue in cheek.
[This message has been edited by Andy Holden (edited 18-03-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Andy Holden (edited 18-03-2000).]
18 March 2000, 07:17 PM
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Before anyone comments that I'm not a t0sser for owning a BMW, I'm one for selling the Subaru - I changed the Scoob for an M roadster as I wanted a 2 seater convertible with similar performance to the Subaru.
18 March 2000, 09:10 PM
#21
Andy,
Your FX hedging logic is both wrong and incomplete:
There are two sets of cash flows to be hedged
1. Overseas sales: Need to sell currency & buy pounds at various dates in the future, say monthly. Hedging the risk with a strip of FX forwards would enable a UK co. to maintain local currency prices and still make the same amount of £s per car, despite a rising / falling exchange rate.
2. Profit/loss repatriation to/from Germany - quarterly or annually: Sell/Buy pounds in advance Vs Euros and, hey presto, no more currency risks for the parent company.
It is unlikely that a company can accurately forecast both sales and profitability and subsequently hedge perfectly for any given year. However, to blame a change of fortune on unhedged currency risks indicates either an incompetent treasury department or other reasons for losses . . Note that it is unlikely that a company would hedge for more than a couple of years in advance.
Here endeth the FX theory lesson.
BMW ownership stereotyping: You [understandably] seem to be a little sensitive about this particular sterotype! One could enter into a debate as to whether or not stereotypes are based on reality, but then the RS boys would come in and give me a mauling, so I won't be going there! My point was that higher-income capitalist types are somewhat unlikely to be concerned with the social costs of redundancy and unemployment. A change of their spending habits is therefore unlikely. Sorry if we disagree on this, but my opinion is just as valid as yours is!
Suresh
Your FX hedging logic is both wrong and incomplete:
There are two sets of cash flows to be hedged
1. Overseas sales: Need to sell currency & buy pounds at various dates in the future, say monthly. Hedging the risk with a strip of FX forwards would enable a UK co. to maintain local currency prices and still make the same amount of £s per car, despite a rising / falling exchange rate.
2. Profit/loss repatriation to/from Germany - quarterly or annually: Sell/Buy pounds in advance Vs Euros and, hey presto, no more currency risks for the parent company.
It is unlikely that a company can accurately forecast both sales and profitability and subsequently hedge perfectly for any given year. However, to blame a change of fortune on unhedged currency risks indicates either an incompetent treasury department or other reasons for losses . . Note that it is unlikely that a company would hedge for more than a couple of years in advance.
Here endeth the FX theory lesson.
BMW ownership stereotyping: You [understandably] seem to be a little sensitive about this particular sterotype! One could enter into a debate as to whether or not stereotypes are based on reality, but then the RS boys would come in and give me a mauling, so I won't be going there!
My point was that higher-income capitalist types are somewhat unlikely to be concerned with the social costs of redundancy and unemployment. A change of their spending habits is therefore unlikely. Sorry if we disagree on this, but my opinion is just as valid as yours is!Suresh
18 March 2000, 10:15 PM
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Rover manufacture cars today that have very poor build quality and a major image problem.
My mates now ex MG, was unreliable, after 10,000 miles rattled like nothing else on earth.
The new 75 is designed for the over 50's, but the marketing department expect 30 year old to want one. How much of the base work on the 75 was completed before BMW came in ?
Any modern company that produces the wrong product and with bad quality cannont expect to survive.
They had to get out at some point. Why should they give loads of notice ?. The rest of us working out there wouldnt get from our bosses. They might get a culture shock working for the Yanks. Most people had rumours this was going to happen for some time, not someone on your doorstep from head office one day making half the staff redundant there and then.
Its the life you lead working in the private sector. Yes I feel very sorry for anyone that might lose their jobs over this, and probably the one that should wont.
BMW made a **** up and their getting out. Its day to day business. There are not many business that can lose that amount of money and keep on trading (except if your a .com)
Jonathan
My mates now ex MG, was unreliable, after 10,000 miles rattled like nothing else on earth.
The new 75 is designed for the over 50's, but the marketing department expect 30 year old to want one. How much of the base work on the 75 was completed before BMW came in ?
Any modern company that produces the wrong product and with bad quality cannont expect to survive.
They had to get out at some point. Why should they give loads of notice ?. The rest of us working out there wouldnt get from our bosses. They might get a culture shock working for the Yanks. Most people had rumours this was going to happen for some time, not someone on your doorstep from head office one day making half the staff redundant there and then.
Its the life you lead working in the private sector. Yes I feel very sorry for anyone that might lose their jobs over this, and probably the one that should wont.
BMW made a **** up and their getting out. Its day to day business. There are not many business that can lose that amount of money and keep on trading (except if your a .com)
Jonathan
18 March 2000, 10:40 PM
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Suresh
As you point out, there is a lot more to FX than either of us have gone into. The strength of sterling is a big issue for UK based manufacturers selling overseas but nuf said - I'm sure no-one else is interested!
Stereotyping - funny old business. I don't think I'm any more sensitive about this now that I've got a BMW than I was when I had the Subaru. I've always thought the anti-BMW driver thing on this BBS was odd. More relevant has always been the anti-bad driver comments which include specific BMW, Astra van, Vectra and even Subaru drivers.
You mentioned "that higher-income capitalist types are somewhat unlikely to be concerned with the social costs of redundancy and unemployment. A change of their spending habits is therefore unlikely"
I'm (genuinely) not sure what you meant by that. Are you saying that the typical BMW driver doesn't care that Longbridge may be closed? Or that that they should have bought Rovers in the first place and the whole thing would never have arisen as Rover would have been a success. Both points could apply to the driver of any car, not just BMW.
Sadly this is getting out of hand. This was posted today on a BMW BBS similar to this one: "I work in Northfield which is just down the road from Longbridge and the local BMW dealer was vandalised the other night. One of the local radio stations is having an anti German campaign and local BMW dealers are having new car orders cancelled. I didnt dare take my Z3 to work today in case someone decided to have a go at it".
As you point out, there is a lot more to FX than either of us have gone into. The strength of sterling is a big issue for UK based manufacturers selling overseas but nuf said - I'm sure no-one else is interested!
Stereotyping - funny old business. I don't think I'm any more sensitive about this now that I've got a BMW than I was when I had the Subaru. I've always thought the anti-BMW driver thing on this BBS was odd. More relevant has always been the anti-bad driver comments which include specific BMW, Astra van, Vectra and even Subaru drivers.
You mentioned "that higher-income capitalist types are somewhat unlikely to be concerned with the social costs of redundancy and unemployment. A change of their spending habits is therefore unlikely"
I'm (genuinely) not sure what you meant by that. Are you saying that the typical BMW driver doesn't care that Longbridge may be closed? Or that that they should have bought Rovers in the first place and the whole thing would never have arisen as Rover would have been a success. Both points could apply to the driver of any car, not just BMW.
Sadly this is getting out of hand. This was posted today on a BMW BBS similar to this one: "I work in Northfield which is just down the road from Longbridge and the local BMW dealer was vandalised the other night. One of the local radio stations is having an anti German campaign and local BMW dealers are having new car orders cancelled. I didnt dare take my Z3 to work today in case someone decided to have a go at it".
18 March 2000, 11:06 PM
#24
Andy,
Apologies to all for being an fx anorak - I was a treasury derivatives financial controller at Europe's largest Investment Bank until I quit to become a student. . . .
I am really appalled that people are resorting to anti-Germanic violence. I lived in Zurich for 7 years until last September and - really - some of my best friends are German!! (or at least German-speaking). The younger generation are pretty cool & laid back, almost likeable, even (trust me on this).
I agree that the capitalist ownership thing could equally apply to any quality marque - just that it's BMW specifically this time!
Anyway gotta run as I've got 15hrs of exams next week and have only done a few hrs of revision so far . . . .
If I saw your motor, I would leer at it rather than wanting to smash it up! (especially if VBH was driving it)
Suresh
Apologies to all for being an fx anorak - I was a treasury derivatives financial controller at Europe's largest Investment Bank until I quit to become a student. . . .
I am really appalled that people are resorting to anti-Germanic violence.
I lived in Zurich for 7 years until last September and - really - some of my best friends are German!! (or at least German-speaking). The younger generation are pretty cool & laid back, almost likeable, even (trust me on this).I agree that the capitalist ownership thing could equally apply to any quality marque - just that it's BMW specifically this time!
Anyway gotta run as I've got 15hrs of exams next week and have only done a few hrs of revision so far . . . .
If I saw your motor, I would leer at it rather than wanting to smash it up! (especially if VBH was driving it)
Suresh
19 March 2000, 12:25 AM
#25
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I'm an anorak!
Suresh - you're observations are correct regarding hedging, however a sustained shift in the underlying currency value cannot be hedged long term.
The only way that BMW could have hedged the fundemental 20% shift in Sterling/Euroland currencies would be to hedge the total potential revenue of the 75 over it's lifetime.
Not possible.
R
PS Do you also have the blueprints for the perpetual motion machine
Suresh - you're observations are correct regarding hedging, however a sustained shift in the underlying currency value cannot be hedged long term.
The only way that BMW could have hedged the fundemental 20% shift in Sterling/Euroland currencies would be to hedge the total potential revenue of the 75 over it's lifetime.
Not possible.
R
PS Do you also have the blueprints for the perpetual motion machine
19 March 2000, 10:31 AM
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For strength of the pound please also see weakness of the EURO.
At the end of the day I can't imagine BMW blew a stack of cash to buy something they didn't think they couldn't turn round.
In my opionion the only Brits who can whinge are those that drive Rover's because at the end of the day it's the rest of us not buying them that has caused the death of the company.
Of course why we don't buy them is a completely different matter.
At the end of the day if you were running a company and one part was losing GBP 800mm then you may be tempted to get shot.
Dave
At the end of the day I can't imagine BMW blew a stack of cash to buy something they didn't think they couldn't turn round.
In my opionion the only Brits who can whinge are those that drive Rover's because at the end of the day it's the rest of us not buying them that has caused the death of the company.
Of course why we don't buy them is a completely different matter.
At the end of the day if you were running a company and one part was losing GBP 800mm then you may be tempted to get shot.
Dave
19 March 2000, 01:00 PM
#27
Rannoch,
[multi-currency anorak on]
Agree. Perpetual hedging is an impossibility, likewise meaningful perpetual sales forecasting. If + fx rate makes a company uncompetitive over the longer term, they must increase efficiency, move production or shut down. To soldier on making huge losses is bad management and has nothing to do with a particular year's fx movements.
[multi-currency anorak off]
Do know where I can get hold of perpetual grin machine blueprints, but motion? alas no!
Suresh
P.S. I am supposed to be revising, so need to be indoors on such a glorious day. What are the rest of you doing in here????
[multi-currency anorak on]
Agree. Perpetual hedging is an impossibility, likewise meaningful perpetual sales forecasting. If + fx rate makes a company uncompetitive over the longer term, they must increase efficiency, move production or shut down. To soldier on making huge losses is bad management and has nothing to do with a particular year's fx movements.
[multi-currency anorak off]
Do know where I can get hold of perpetual grin machine
blueprints, but motion? alas no!Suresh
P.S. I am supposed to be revising, so need to be indoors on such a glorious day. What are the rest of you doing in here????
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