davidw

On the way home from Christmas shopping yesterday I pulled out behind a purple Lamborghini Diablo.

I was explaining to my wife and friends (a little tongue in cheek) that on a wet road like one we were on, the Scooby could well give the Diablo a run for his money. I received the usual "don't make me laugh" kind of comments and sniggers.

As the road cleared and entered the national limit the Diablo driver planted his right foot and shot off up the road. I planted mine too in an attempt to keep up and much to my amusement the Diablo fish-tailed all over the road as it attempted to swap ends. The driver backed off and all the while I'm right behind him laughing my head off with my friends

I'm sure in the dry I'd have been history!

Almost as much fun as the Saxo I saw 10 minutes earlier with a Scooby scoop. Why?

Mungo

Sounds like a similar story to a situation I had last weekend. Wet road, nice new Porsche 996 and I (MY99 5-dr) were lined up side-by-side waiting to pull onto a dual carriageway, gap appears and we both floor it - he almost loses it and as he's fighting to regain control, I'm roaring off into the distance, laughing into my rear-view mirror.

TRIGGER

Even more satisfying, on Saturday going to BoxHill came to traffic lights on A24 near Dorking, a TVR Cerbera pulled up next door. The roads were dry and I said to my mate I was pretty sure the Cerbera (4.5 / 420bhp) would trounce us so I thought I had better not play. Trouble is the TVR wanted to play - lights change, he goes (with a touch of wheel spin) - fraction of a second later I decide to go too - by about 100mph I was one car length ahead, at which stage we slowed for a roundabout. He was grinning and obviously shocked to be beaten. Not that I regularly do this you understand, but very nice to have a gauge for how quick my RA really is.

GCollier

Road racing is for a$$holes. I regularly read the porsche club mags - there was a situation a couple of years ago when some poor sod (a third-party) was killed because of two to$$ers racing their cars on the road back from a club meet. I've also seen a serious accident near where I live because of two idiots doing a similar thing.

All you guys have proved is that the supercar drivers have a wallet which is deeper than their driving skills. As for an impreza being "better" than a 996 or Diablo, well faster in these conditions with someone brain-dead at the wheel probably, but I'm sure 99% of people on this board would swap cars in an instant for a 996/diablo given half a chance.

I just hope I'm not around when one of you guys pulls some stunt which ends in an accident.

Mossman

GCollier,

Must agree with you here mate. Roadracing is for the lobotomised fraternity only.

However, there is, I am sure, not one person on this board who hasn't given it some (not really necessary) "tickle" on the Queen's highway at some time or other, and that includes me.

Drive carefully and drive to the conditions, but remember, we do NOT owen the road.

Cheers,

JM

Mungo

GCollier

Easy Tiger!! Don't you think you're stretching the point of "road-racing" to include accelerating onto a dual carriageway?
I would certainly not do anything like that in a 30 zone, as I'm sure most people here wouldn't either.
Is using full acceleration to reach the speed limit "road-racing"? What about if I did it when I was the only car on the road?
And I don't think either myself or davidW intimated that our scoobies were "better" (cue P1 WR) than a 996 or Diablo, and yes, given the financial opportunity I'd swap for either!

TRIGGER

Absolutely agree - road racing is idiotic - but a clear, dry dual carriageway, pulling away from lights for all of abt 10-12 seconds, for a bit of fun - not exactly grown up, but hardly that bad. And who hasnt tested the acceleration just occasionally ?

Dont be so judgemental.

davidw

GCollier,

Having posted the original message, I do agree with everything you said. Road racing is for morons.

However, I wasn't racing and had no intention of doing so, the ear bashing I'd have got from the wife was enough to put pay to that.

I was following at a safe distance and at no time did I come close to breaking the speed limit although to be honest I did accelerate fairly quickly.

I doubt the Diablo was racing either, why would he? Regardless, too much power and too little grip is enough to cause this type of thing at "safe" speeds. I did it myself in a 200SX at very low speed (<20mph), I just pulled away too fast and got caught out by a damp road.

I suppose the question is, at what point does two cars accelerating quickly become a race. I wasn't trying to overtake. How would you define a "race"?

I suspect he would have floored it even if I wasn't there, and vice-versa. To be fair, when he fish-tailed he slowed down. Quite rightly.

I understand that speed limits mean very little in poor conditions and are not always indicative of the safe speed to drive. I try to keep this in mind when driving although what I and other people perceive to be safe and what actually is can be quite different.

We all know a Diablo is faster than a Scooby. Why kid ourselves? However, I had hoped from the tone of my message that people would see I was only kidding and didn't really think the Scooby was faster Read it again.

I appologise if you thought I was encouraging road racing, far from it. For those who want to race, go to a track.

And yes, I would swap the Scooby for a Diablo, even though my wife thinks they look stupid




[This message has been edited by davidw (edited 04 December 2000).]

Martin Cook

DavidW
Why say sorry to GCollier for doing what you did?? He only expressed his opinion!! Tell him to mind his own bloody business!!

You don't have to say sorry to anyone, I would have done exactly the same and so would most people on this board.

Its his sort of post that leans me to not posting too much on the BBS anymore.

We all know the dangers etc, but who's to say it won't happen to us in the morning on the way to work??

Why can't anybody do anything anymore without someone else asking right or wrong questions, and going into some long and boring slagging match.

RVeiga

Don't worry Martin, it will soon turm into P1's are crap dibate!!!

davidw

Martin,

I take your point, but it gets right up my nose when I'm accused of road racing because I feel so strongly about this kind of thing. I just wanted to defend myself.

I wasn't apologising to GCollier directly, but to everyone in general for inadvertently implying road racing was OK.

On reflection I do think the Scooby is better than the Diablo I had 4 people in the car and a boot full of Christmas shopping. Try doing that in a Diablo.

I still want one though

davidw

RVeiga,

I thought P1's were crap

LOL

DavidRB

Interesting choice of comparison on the road-racing front.

I remember the details of that Porsche accident. Both drivers had spent the day at a Porsche-arranged performance driving course, learning how to drive quickly without losing control.

Armed with their new found skills, they were racing each other down a single carriageway (one lane in each direction) country road. One driver was attempting to overtake the other on a bend when they came upon an oncoming vehicle. It was that driver (someone's grandfather) who was killed.

It was a disgusting and totally unnecessary waste of a human life.

It is also not a fair comparison with accelerating on a straight dual-carriageway with nothing infront of you and no other cars to hit head-on.

sunilp

erm, P1's are crap

Gerg2

P1's are not crap!!!! (You need two sides for a debate)

Mr.Cookie

P1's are okayish you forgot you need some one to stay middle of the fence

Si

GCollier

Martin Cook >>> If your profile is to be believed, I have been a member of this BBS for a lot longer than you, and it is posts of the nature of "my car's better than your car" and "I'm a scooby driver, therefore by definition an excellent driver, and above the laws of the road" that have diluted this board from an excellent resource to merely a good one. Believe me, 18 months ago, this sort of post would have been promptly deleted by the webmaster. And what point are you trying to make when you say that you never know when it'll happen to you on th way to work?

I'm not sure myself where to draw the line at road-racing, but it takes two to tango. To get into a situation where your actions are egging some other foolish driver on is just dumb. Yes, accelerating hard in the dry onto a straight clear dual-carriageway is probably harmless enough, but to be pulling out into a gap on a wet one, and almost losing control definitely is not. The defence "but I didn't make him drive fast and lose control" will be of little consolation to the victim of an accident.

davidw/mungo >>> If conditions really were totally safe for the antics you describe, then I apologise. From the information in your posts, I can only say that the situations sounded quiet dangerous.

Gary.

waynelivesey

I think the odd blast on quiet non built up areas is harmless enough.I totally agree that road racing is out of order,but why,if non of us ever`did it`do we all go on about sub 5 0-60s,traction,remapped ecus,more power,upgraded everything.... to drive at the speed limit all the time.I might as well sell up now and buy suzuki wagon R!...

waynelivesey

and to ,"i`ve been a member longer than you",all i can say is `so what`!
What bit of difference does that make?
Whats the point of having such a forum if peoples threads were deleted and cencored for being unsuitable!

Sith

Interesting one this thread.

I used to give into the red mist, and really go for it. I am now older and hopefully wiser. I try not to let the red mist win. Self control. Seen the accidents and don't want to become one myself. And I don't want to have to put someone like Stuart in the position of telling my parents why their eldest will not be comming home in the evening.

I sometimes may have a bit of *fun* with someone else. But only when safe. And you can't use a blanket of it's never safe.
If I think the person may do something stupid, then I won't play. And if they start to do stupid things, then I slow down and let them go off. I have nothing to prove.

Thats my ramblings.

P.

You can have fun on back roads etc, as long as you're sensible about it.

waynelivesey

I totally agree,myself aged 30 (my94RA) asked my kid bro to (aged 21 STI TYPE R v3((i know its newer than mine but hes no kids and lives at home!!!!))to go on a trackday with me, he declined saying that he would probably crash `racing me`.I said "dont be stupid" but then realizing the age gap realized what I myself was like at `that age` and understood.
Maybe to much power to young etc etc is a major factor in red mist syndrome.But then again you can still do as much damage crashing/racing in a 1.2 NOVA.
Heres another can of worms!! Is it not more dangerous police chasing joyriders etc etc through a housing estate - built up area than myself having a quick blast down the local bypass!.Especially the TV docs i.e kids being chased,copper and his mate chasing with someone else filming!.If thats nor a case for red mist then i dont know what is!
Iam off to bed now with my pipe and a cup of horlicks.

GCollier

Wayne,

I raised the point about being a BBS member for a lot longer than Martin, because he said that it's posts like mine which cause _him_ to contribute less. I was just trying to point out that the nature of this BBS seems to have changed quite a bit in the last couple of years. People with good contributions to make have left, and the boy-racer brigade has moved in to fill the vaccuum.

Looking back at my original response, it was a bit OTT. I was having a $hite day at work, but I still remain dead against people dicking around and racing each other on the road.

Gary.

RVeiga

Had to give someone £2k to take the P1 away last night.

That was a relief - It was a pile of ****!

Off to buy a Dukes of Hazard with a nitrus bottle in the boot. Bet I can beat all you Scoobs at Santa Pod - No problems.

blubs

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GCollier:
<B>Wayne,

People with good contributions to make have left, and the boy-racer brigade has moved in to fill the vaccuum.
Gary.[/quote]

That's a bit harsh I'd say. I have been here for awhile (admittedly not as long as yourself) and I find the BBS to be just as informative as it always was.

In fact, I have to be honest and say some of the over-inflated ego's that have been present on this board over the last couple of years I really do not miss!!!

I was a boy-racer and I still am at heart (aged 34), and I think if people are really honest with themselves they will admit having been a boy-racer in their earlier days. Not to say I condone it though, but in the main, the banter on this board is harmless.

blubs

davidw

GCollier

These post bring up a lot of interesting questions.

I explained the nature of the posts last night to my wife. She was quite amused as she wasn't aware we were having a race, or my friends for that matter

I followed Mr Diablo for around 2 miles until the road cleared and he decided to put his foot down. Don't we all do the same at some point regardless of whose behind you where it's legal and safe to do so?

This leads me to your next point "it takes two to tango". Where do you draw the line here? If Mr Diablo pulled away hard and crashed because he "thought" I was going to race, whose responsible?

The Scooby seems to be a red rag to a bull (pun intended ) and people are always trying to race us at a set of traffic lights or attempt to overtake on narrow country lanes. Are we responsible for their actions just because we drive this type of car? It must have happened to you.

What is the police's take on this. How do they define "road racing"?

I've never been describe as a boy racer before, I'm a married man, late twenties and balding. BTW, I've never owned a baseball cap Maybe I should take this as a compliment. Now where's my Max Power.

[This message has been edited by davidw (edited 05 December 2000).]

[This message has been edited by davidw (edited 05 December 2000).]

Bajie

Just out of curiosity, have any of the people making all this "anti speed/race/whatever" actually taken their cars into the upper echelons of the rev range.
Have you heard how good it sounds.
Bearing this in mind, how do you feel when you hear it and feel the response of your car
Now add an induction kit, aftermarket exhaust and dump valve. Smiling . Thought you might be.
Now, you're driving. The road clears. Do you drop a gear, turn off the stereo and listen to the music your car makes?
Do you need to "prove" yourself to other drivers or are you enjoying your investment.
Now imagine the noise a V12 Diablo will make.
BTW when we do track days are we encouraged to race each other. I think not.

Mr Leigh

I thought this was a thread to about road racing! I think what Mr Collier says is complete BS. Get a life.

jason white

P1s are crap

Chris L

I've just reread this thread and I would say that Mr Collier's post does appear to be a little OTT. However, he raises a valid point that racing on public roads is a very bad idea and is likely to end in a nasty accident, but I don't think the original posts were insighting 'road racing'.

The whole point of this board is that it is for discussion - if everyone had the same opinion it would be boring. OK, not every post or thread is serious, but I still consider it to be the best source of info for Scoobies full stop.

And I'll sit on the fence and say I quite like P1s

Chris

Mungo

As the owner of one of the original posts, I am utterly bemused by GCollier's trail of posts.
I assume he is a Scooby owner, but perhaps not. Has he never driven his car quickly (even just under acceleration to the speed limit - and yes, the speed limit isn't a target...) on the public road?
Why does he have a Scooby as a road car if his attitude to speed is that it is unnecessary? And a Scooby as a track day car is also silly as you are not allowed to race at track days. So I assume has sufficient funds to support a racing or rally car?
I would never, ever condone road-racing. I would not describe accelerating onto a dual carriageway as racing.
And as for his attitude to newer BBS members, it stinks. What clears an early member from the "boy-racer" tag? There are plenty of forums here for sensible discussion, and a few for friendly banter.

Right, I'm off to the Puffa shop, but first I'm just filling in my subscription to REVS.