Tripple'O G

Was driving down the motorway last night at about 70mph and the car switched off...due to my blackjax....scary?? you wanna ******* believe it

So i'm on the phone to clifford to get a replacement now and they are umming & ahhing about doing it? considering I got it fitted by an authorised fitter....

anyone else had problems with clifford??
any suggestions? apart from lobbing it back at them?

Abdabz

No mate - no problems yet but your post have given me a twitch

SCOOBYRICH740-20-0

who did you have it fitted by mate

evolutionice.com

Are you sure it was your Clifford that caused it? What makes you think that?

Just Curious

Gav.

Tripple'O G

Precision Alarms fitted it........and **** me are they giving me a hard time about it.

I say it's the blackjax because when I was in Birmingham a few months back I couldn't get my car started.......called out the AA etc untill I realised there weren't and ignition lights coming on...the same as what would happen if the blackjax had kicked in.

So I located the "brain" and as I moved it, all the ignition lights came on.
It was the connector plug from the brain to the reat of the car. so I had to get a mate to hold the ******* unit all the way back home (to London) with the car switching on/off/on/off/on/off which isn't a nice experiance.

So the alarm company did away with the connector as insturcted by Clifford and it's been fine untill this incident.....which happened twice more over the weekend.

PLUS i've found out some insurance companied WILL NOT INSURE YOU IF YOU HAVE A BLACKJAX as they don't like anything that can switch the car off whilst driving....

evolutionice.com

Technically, Blackjax doesnt shut down the car while its driving. It is designed to shut the car down when it comes down to idle speed. Like when you stop at a junction. On some high value vehicles, insurance companies have been know to ask for an ani-hijack system.

There does seem to be a problem with the plugs on both the Blackjax and the Intellistart 4 units. The cure is to leave some slack on the wires at the brain so that there isnt alot of tension which results in the pins coming loose. If the alarm company has done away with the plug completely then i cant see why this would still be happening.

Unfortunately it doesnt sound like a Clifford issue but it does sound like another case of poor fitting.

Sigma Sam

I'm sorry, but I beg to differ on a point raised in the post above.
I have not heard of any cases where an insurance company has "asked for an anti hi-jack system" to be fitted. The insurance industry only recommend products that have been tested and approved at the Motor Insurance Repair and Research Centre (MIRRC) at Thatcham.

Currently, even the most recent Thatcham Category 5 systems, that are specified for high value vehicles, are only permitted to immobilise the starter circuit of a stolen vehicle via a secure operating centre only when authorised to do so by the Police and only then when they are within visual contact.
The legislation regarding such "after-theft" devices that immobilise vehicles automatically after the vehicle has been taken (whether when stationary etc or not) is a nightmare area legally in the UK, due to "Construction and Use" and "Road Traffic" regs and clearly does not meet the Cat 5 criteria or ACPO guidelines.

Additionally any electrical product that is intended for fitment to a motor vehicle must bear an "E" mark showing that it has been tested and approved for electrical compatibility (95/54 EC) for use in an automotive environment.
Most of types of "anti hi-jack" system aren't approved for European fitment (no E mark) as they were never intended for the UK market and were not officially imported (hence usually only marketed on foreign web pages).

Thatcham will not consider a product for approval unless it has already met the 95/54 EC standard in independant testing, so I would be very surprised to hear of an insurer specifying a non Thatcham approved product and even more so a non 95/54 EC approved product.
In fact I feel it far more likely that the fitment of a non 95/54 EC product would cause "payout situations" in the event of electrical fires etc.

Tread carefully and ensure that any electrical products fitted to your vehicle conform to 95/54 EC.
SS

evolutionice.com

As you may or may not know, insurance companies tend to make things up as they go along. My brother recently bought a set of alloys for his car and promptly told his insurance company. They said it was ok but said he would have to have locking nuts if he wanted them to be insured.

Anyone know where i can get a set of Thatcham Approved Locking Nuts?

The insurance company have also informed him that his MG ZR is a high risk of being stolen because someone has stolen the transponder numbers for all the MG ZR's. They have now told him that to be insured again next year he will have to install a Tracker Monitor.

Sounds like a pile of BS if you ask me. It also goes to show that Insurance companies don't always follow the guidlines that they themselves lay down.

Anyone remember the "You have to be VSIB approved to install Cat 1 alarm's" speech that the insurance companies gave out on the creation of cat 1 accreditation? Whetever happened to that then?

Sigma Sam

I apologise for hi-jacking (no pun intended) this thread somewhat, but I feel that the main point in my last post regarding the legality, compatibility and approval of electronic devices has been missed with the comparison to locking wheel nuts/bolts.

Incidently, locking wheel nuts/bolts come under the Thatcham Category 4 criteria which requires a minimum removal time of 2 minutes and at least 25 differs.
Current Thatcham approved wheel nuts/bolts are manufactured by ABC Unifortechnik, ADL, Forad/EVOAutomotive Solutions, McGard and PSA (Peugeot-Citroen), so I would imagine that you should find these readily available!

I would agree that individual insurance company "advisors" are usually poorly informed on vehicle security and can get into a tangle when pushed whilst trying to remain authoratative.
Knowing the Thatcham criteria for new vehicle immobiisation I feel the MG ZR example, if correct. would be a case in point showing how an advisor can get out of their depth, but the companies are not "making it up as they go along".

Asking for the fitment of locking wheel nuts/bolts (which are unlikely to generate a claim as a result of their fitment - although I imagine that the advisor omited to mention the fact that they should be Thatcham approved) is not the same as asking for the fitment of what could prove to be a potentially hazardous product without 95/54 EC approval - ie not bearing the CE mark (I speak here generally and not product specific)

The insurance companies take it as a given that any electrical product fitted from reversing sensors to navigation systems would conform to 95/54 EC. They apply the same logic that any vehicle sold in the UK conforms to the Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA) requirements - hence common confusion in the insurance industry when confronted with imported vehicles without VCA approval. Despite the mandatory Single Vehicle Approval (SVA) test, it is this "unknown factor" as the vehicles were not fully VCA tested (even though very similar UK derivatives may have been) that pushes the premium of imported vehicles above that of their UK counterparts. Similarly, the insurance companies will not take a chance on an electrical product that has not undergone 95/54 EC testing and that does not bear a CE mark, however they are unlikely to draw your attention to this when such products should not be available in the UK.

With regard VSIB, well unfortunately money talks and once one insurance provider accepted a non VSIB installation (generaly cheaper) then it was only a matter of time before a number of others would follow, so as not to lose business.
It should be remembered though, that the Vehicle Systems Installation Board (VSIB) is a separate organisation set up to guarantee a minimum standard of installation and as such the insurers can choose to insist on VSIB members installations only or not, whereas the Motor Insurance Research and Repair Centre (Thatcham) is tied to the insurance industry as the name suggests and carries out product testing to the benefit of the insurers, aiming to reduce and minimise claims, so their recommendations tend to be adhered to.

Enough of my technical ramblings now (apologies again) and back to the original thread.....

SS

Tripple'O G

Blackjax is officially cr@p........

After two months of messing around and three new units......I've got an alarm company that will not install as they have tried three seperate units, and Clifford that will not use one of their own engineers to install the unit......

They have even told me that these unit's will, at some point always let you down......and I have spoken to numerous other owners that have had the car shut down on it's own.....so I am getting a refund and never even want to here the name blackcr@ps again....

At the end of the day......who wants a unit that has the possibility of shutting down when your driving at 70mph? let alone the speed our cars are capable of!!

MotorGuard

Sounds really strange. We have installed 100s of blackjax units & do a lot of work for scoobynet members and this is the first time i have heard of a vehicle shutting down while you are driving

Tripple'O G

Well this has just gotton a lot worse......

Turns out the origninal installers programmed the blackjax to come on RPM not on engine pulse? so it went to ANOTHER fitters over the weekend and they have managed to ***** up my wiring so that my fuel pump won't come on, ergo, the ******* car won't start and they need to take it for "diagnostics"

I've had enough with this now

Heple

I can recommend a good installer in the North West called Stuart Barnard he would be able to solve your issues.

He'll advise on any Clifford issues.

He will guide you through fitting issues aswell, e-mail him he's very helpful.

I am sure all Blackjax are RPM triggered but i'm not the expert Stu is. E-mail him he'll advise you how to sort it.

Stuart Barnard : stubs@bulldoghome.com

Craig