renault clio 1.8 16v or williams, good or bad?
22 September 2004, 02:37 AM
#1
renault clio 1.8 16v or williams, good or bad?
time has come to buy a house so need to get a cheaper car both the 16v and williams are sitting high on my list for insurance cost to buy and run.
anyone got any good views/bad views on either please?
jamo
anyone got any good views/bad views on either please?
jamo
22 September 2004, 08:40 AM
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Ok, I owned a K reg 1.8 16v.
They are quick in their league. Sound good to. Amazingly heavy clutch (really REALLY heavy). Quite well built. Cheap ish to insure and they look quite cool.
Bad points is handling when pusihing it. It's not very forgiving on the edge. They use quite alot of oil as they run very hot. Rusty rear arches are very common.
If you get a good one, they are cool. Try and get a phase 2, late L reg onwards.
They're ok mate, not bad.
They are quick in their league. Sound good to. Amazingly heavy clutch (really REALLY heavy). Quite well built. Cheap ish to insure and they look quite cool.
Bad points is handling when pusihing it. It's not very forgiving on the edge. They use quite alot of oil as they run very hot. Rusty rear arches are very common.
If you get a good one, they are cool. Try and get a phase 2, late L reg onwards.
They're ok mate, not bad.
22 September 2004, 08:44 AM
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I have just sold my 1.8 16V and looking back it's been a good car on the whole. Lots of silly little things whent on it but the only time it broke down was when my key plipper battery failed and when the alternator whent at 75k. I had mine for 7 years and if i'm honest it was a very reliable quick little car.
The problems I had with mine are what you should be looking for when buying one IMO as follows:
Check all the electrics work!!!.
Check the heater blower direction controlls work (mine seized at 30k, its a full dashboard out nightmare job).
Check when the heater is on and the blower on maximum you dont smell coolant (if its cold your windscreen will mist up) which is a sign the heater matrix has failed (again a full dashboard out job).
Renault Valvers have notoriously heavy clutches if its very heavy this is a sign the clutch needs replacing, a good test is a hard standing start if it feels like the clutch is dragging with your foot off the pedal then it's knackered, if you feel the clutch engage properly with a slight jolt as you engage the clutch fully then everything is fine. TIP - ALLWAYS HAVE A SPARE OFFICIAL RENAULT PART CLUTCH CABLE IN THE BOOT. Due to the heavy nature of the clutch the cables take a pounding. Some cars are good and the cables last ages and some are bad and go through cables at a silly rate. You may need to replace the self adjusting mechanism if the clutch has been replaced but it still keeps snapping the cables like mine did.
Get a car with FSH, dont look for Renault Service History unless your looking at a Williams. Renualt labour charges are astronomical and there a plenty of independant garages around who know how to look after them. If the garage says "oh no, not a Renault 16V" then its a good sign, trust me. This means that they are experienced in the usual things that go wrong with them as set out here.
The main engine/gearbox mount needs regular replacement, IIRC they need replacing every 30k. A good sign that it needs replacing is when you start the engine when its hot, when its turning over you may feel a slight knock/rattle through the footwell, this is a sure sign it needs replacing. Not a difficult job just very fiddly.
Make sure the wheels (if standard 15") have the correct size tyres fitted and are a matching good brand. I think they are 185 55 R15's, if they are 195's they are oversize but cheaper than the 185's. You can pretty much gauge that if the owner is scrimping on the tyres then the car has not been looked after like it should IMO.
Servicing intervals are every 6k. A minor service will cost in the region of £100 and a major around the £200 mark.
The Clio Valvers are very sensitive to tracking/wheel alignment and tyre pressures. I suggest you get the tracking and wheel alignment checked every 6 months or at every service interval. I found with the tyre pressures that 31psi front and rear was right for me.
The Clio Valvers have a dual tone horn fitted as standard. The unit is located behind the front offside inner wheel arch liner and is two seperate units. They cost £60 each from Renault so make sure they work. Most fail and are replaced with bright red Halfords type units in the engine bay.
Check all the dials work on the dash particularly the centre pod which houses the engine oil level, engine oil temperature and engine oil pressure (pressure being the nearest one to the driver). Oil level should allways be kept close to the high point on the dial, never let it drop below the halfway mark on the dial as a general rule. Oil temp should be around the 100 mark when up to full working temperature. Oil pressure IIRC should rise and fall with the needle just under the halfway mark at idle and almost at the highest point under hard full throttle acceleration.
A single press of the reset button on the mileometer is al thats needed to reset it. You should average about 260/280 miles from a tank of fuel. Motorway journeys should average around 300.
Dont bother with SUL/Ultimate/Optimax it makes know difference. I used it once in a while just to help clear the injectors etc.
Try and find one with leather interior. It's very hard wearing and the seats are VERY comfortable. Seats are heated also. A good sign to confirm that the leather was fitted to the car from new is a grey cable coming from the the carpet under the seat going into the bottom of the seat.
The one place that you are certain to find rust is the front leading edge of the rear arches.
Can't think of anymore but when I do I'll post again.
The problems I had with mine are what you should be looking for when buying one IMO as follows:
Check all the electrics work!!!.
Check the heater blower direction controlls work (mine seized at 30k, its a full dashboard out nightmare job).
Check when the heater is on and the blower on maximum you dont smell coolant (if its cold your windscreen will mist up) which is a sign the heater matrix has failed (again a full dashboard out job).
Renault Valvers have notoriously heavy clutches if its very heavy this is a sign the clutch needs replacing, a good test is a hard standing start if it feels like the clutch is dragging with your foot off the pedal then it's knackered, if you feel the clutch engage properly with a slight jolt as you engage the clutch fully then everything is fine. TIP - ALLWAYS HAVE A SPARE OFFICIAL RENAULT PART CLUTCH CABLE IN THE BOOT. Due to the heavy nature of the clutch the cables take a pounding. Some cars are good and the cables last ages and some are bad and go through cables at a silly rate. You may need to replace the self adjusting mechanism if the clutch has been replaced but it still keeps snapping the cables like mine did.
Get a car with FSH, dont look for Renault Service History unless your looking at a Williams. Renualt labour charges are astronomical and there a plenty of independant garages around who know how to look after them. If the garage says "oh no, not a Renault 16V" then its a good sign, trust me. This means that they are experienced in the usual things that go wrong with them as set out here.
The main engine/gearbox mount needs regular replacement, IIRC they need replacing every 30k. A good sign that it needs replacing is when you start the engine when its hot, when its turning over you may feel a slight knock/rattle through the footwell, this is a sure sign it needs replacing. Not a difficult job just very fiddly.
Make sure the wheels (if standard 15") have the correct size tyres fitted and are a matching good brand. I think they are 185 55 R15's, if they are 195's they are oversize but cheaper than the 185's. You can pretty much gauge that if the owner is scrimping on the tyres then the car has not been looked after like it should IMO.
Servicing intervals are every 6k. A minor service will cost in the region of £100 and a major around the £200 mark.
The Clio Valvers are very sensitive to tracking/wheel alignment and tyre pressures. I suggest you get the tracking and wheel alignment checked every 6 months or at every service interval. I found with the tyre pressures that 31psi front and rear was right for me.
The Clio Valvers have a dual tone horn fitted as standard. The unit is located behind the front offside inner wheel arch liner and is two seperate units. They cost £60 each from Renault so make sure they work. Most fail and are replaced with bright red Halfords type units in the engine bay.
Check all the dials work on the dash particularly the centre pod which houses the engine oil level, engine oil temperature and engine oil pressure (pressure being the nearest one to the driver). Oil level should allways be kept close to the high point on the dial, never let it drop below the halfway mark on the dial as a general rule. Oil temp should be around the 100 mark when up to full working temperature. Oil pressure IIRC should rise and fall with the needle just under the halfway mark at idle and almost at the highest point under hard full throttle acceleration.
A single press of the reset button on the mileometer is al thats needed to reset it. You should average about 260/280 miles from a tank of fuel. Motorway journeys should average around 300.
Dont bother with SUL/Ultimate/Optimax it makes know difference. I used it once in a while just to help clear the injectors etc.
Try and find one with leather interior. It's very hard wearing and the seats are VERY comfortable. Seats are heated also. A good sign to confirm that the leather was fitted to the car from new is a grey cable coming from the the carpet under the seat going into the bottom of the seat.
The one place that you are certain to find rust is the front leading edge of the rear arches.
Can't think of anymore but when I do I'll post again.
22 September 2004, 08:52 AM
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Prodriva - bloody hell. You know plenty. After 7 years I suppose you would. Only had mine a year or so. I think overall, if you get a good one they are pretty cool little machines.
WOuldn't mind one all stripped out. With an induction kit they don't half sound good. Like a motorbike almost.
Litte crackers.
The Williams - you know much about them??
WOuldn't mind one all stripped out. With an induction kit they don't half sound good. Like a motorbike almost.
Litte crackers.
The Williams - you know much about them??
22 September 2004, 09:13 AM
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Senior AP,
Ha ha, and the thing is mine was one of the good ones. It's just that I kept it for so long all the problems that could occur did with me just over a 7 year period
Regarding the Williams, I havent owned one but looked at many and my sister's BF had one many moons ago. All I would say is, if you can find a good one and a Williams 1 with low miles get one. The 2 and 3 are note quite the same with more kit being added with each version. The series 1 is the one to have with purists. They have manual windows, manual mirrors, non-airbag steering wheel and no ABS. The series 1 is the original and best but you will pay a premium for it but you should pick one up for 3/4k and up to 6 for a very low mileage minta.
The Williams has Speedline 16" alloys as standard with wider track and generally improved suspension over the 1.8 Valver. These changes make a huge difference to the car and is the main reason why the cars are still one of THE best hot hatches ever.
A Williams should have a small plaque on the centre console with the edition number on it. Many 1.8 Valvers have been modded to create a "Williams" so look out for them.
The Williams has a 2.0 version of the Renault F16ie engine. It's effectively the same engine as fitted to the Megane Coupe 2.0 16v and produces 150bhp compared to the 1.8's 137bhp. The 2.0 feels like a totally different engine to the 1.8 and should have been the engine the Clio Valver from the outset IMO.
The 1.8 Valver is Insurance Group 12/13 with the Clio Williams at 16/17 depending on the Insurance company.
The Williams is a lot more expensive to buy, own and run when comapred to the 1.8 Valver, but if you can afford it get the Williams it is the better choice.
Ha ha, and the thing is mine was one of the good ones. It's just that I kept it for so long all the problems that could occur did with me just over a 7 year period
Regarding the Williams, I havent owned one but looked at many and my sister's BF had one many moons ago. All I would say is, if you can find a good one and a Williams 1 with low miles get one. The 2 and 3 are note quite the same with more kit being added with each version. The series 1 is the one to have with purists. They have manual windows, manual mirrors, non-airbag steering wheel and no ABS. The series 1 is the original and best but you will pay a premium for it but you should pick one up for 3/4k and up to 6 for a very low mileage minta.
The Williams has Speedline 16" alloys as standard with wider track and generally improved suspension over the 1.8 Valver. These changes make a huge difference to the car and is the main reason why the cars are still one of THE best hot hatches ever.
A Williams should have a small plaque on the centre console with the edition number on it. Many 1.8 Valvers have been modded to create a "Williams" so look out for them.
The Williams has a 2.0 version of the Renault F16ie engine. It's effectively the same engine as fitted to the Megane Coupe 2.0 16v and produces 150bhp compared to the 1.8's 137bhp. The 2.0 feels like a totally different engine to the 1.8 and should have been the engine the Clio Valver from the outset IMO.
The 1.8 Valver is Insurance Group 12/13 with the Clio Williams at 16/17 depending on the Insurance company.
The Williams is a lot more expensive to buy, own and run when comapred to the 1.8 Valver, but if you can afford it get the Williams it is the better choice.
22 September 2004, 09:43 AM
#6
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Hi,
I owned an original Williams (no41) for 3 years during the mid nineties, as well as owning a mechanically similar r19 16v for 2 years before that.
If you get a good Williams you will never want to sell it IMHO, the blend of great handling/positive steering/great brakes & sufficient performance (by today's standards) is still hard to beat. It was the only car I have owned (including 2 scoobies & various hot hatches) that attracted so much friendly attention : I was stopped by the police on two seperate occasions purely because they wanted to look a the car in detail !!.
Things to look out for :
very prone to stone chips on the front end as far back as the front wings.
Rear brake discs tend to rust away if the car is not used a great deal (most of the braking is at the front - the rears tend to suffer as a result)
Electrical faults, especially with lights etc - on my car the boot light used to stay on when the boot was closed due to a faulty circuit & run the battery down. The AA man who sorted it said he had seen this problem with several Clios.
Make sure the car you are seeing really is a Williams - several 16vs wear the same wheels & badging nowadays
Check the catalyst is oK - mine broke & it had to be specially ordered & cost £440 !!!!!
Only series I ****** (399 cars) had the plaque on the dash; series II (400 cars) & series III (300 cars) have minior detail changes such as ABS, sunroof & slighly different colour.
Also, check if the car has the seperate Williams booklet, these are impossible to source nowadays
Hope this all helps - If you find a good one - buy it a future classic for sure
Steve
I owned an original Williams (no41) for 3 years during the mid nineties, as well as owning a mechanically similar r19 16v for 2 years before that.
If you get a good Williams you will never want to sell it IMHO, the blend of great handling/positive steering/great brakes & sufficient performance (by today's standards) is still hard to beat. It was the only car I have owned (including 2 scoobies & various hot hatches) that attracted so much friendly attention : I was stopped by the police on two seperate occasions purely because they wanted to look a the car in detail !!.
Things to look out for :
very prone to stone chips on the front end as far back as the front wings.
Rear brake discs tend to rust away if the car is not used a great deal (most of the braking is at the front - the rears tend to suffer as a result)
Electrical faults, especially with lights etc - on my car the boot light used to stay on when the boot was closed due to a faulty circuit & run the battery down. The AA man who sorted it said he had seen this problem with several Clios.
Make sure the car you are seeing really is a Williams - several 16vs wear the same wheels & badging nowadays
Check the catalyst is oK - mine broke & it had to be specially ordered & cost £440 !!!!!
Only series I ****** (399 cars) had the plaque on the dash; series II (400 cars) & series III (300 cars) have minior detail changes such as ABS, sunroof & slighly different colour.
Also, check if the car has the seperate Williams booklet, these are impossible to source nowadays
Hope this all helps - If you find a good one - buy it a future classic for sure
Steve
22 September 2004, 10:02 AM
#7
cheers guys I really appreciate the advice!
special thanks to prodriva!
So I guess that 100% positive feedback!!
I have found a williams 1, for £2800, with a little rust on the rear arch.
68k miles and mint interior, one woman owner from new "apparantly" I shall check each corner
and all the other bits mentioned before!
thanks again
jamo
special thanks to prodriva!
So I guess that 100% positive feedback!!
I have found a williams 1, for £2800, with a little rust on the rear arch.
68k miles and mint interior, one woman owner from new "apparantly" I shall check each corner
and all the other bits mentioned before!
thanks again
jamo
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22 September 2004, 10:07 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by j4mou
cheers guys I really appreciate the advice!
special thanks to prodriva!
So I guess that 100% positive feedback!!
I have found a williams 1, for £2800, with a little rust on the rear arch.
68k miles and mint interior, one woman owner from new "apparantly" I shall check each corner
and all the other bits mentioned before!
thanks again
jamo
special thanks to prodriva!
So I guess that 100% positive feedback!!
I have found a williams 1, for £2800, with a little rust on the rear arch.
68k miles and mint interior, one woman owner from new "apparantly" I shall check each corner
and all the other bits mentioned before!
thanks again
jamo
You know it hasn't been covered up by a bodge job. If its good, buy it then get it fixed yourself properly.
They really are wicked little motors, they sound great to. Far more "Grrr" sounding (so to speak) than the new 172's and stuff.
22 September 2004, 10:18 AM
#9
I dont like the new shape at all, I have one now as a 3rd runaround its horrible, it will be going, it was just very cheap so grabbed it, but never got around to moving it on 
lol mum seems to use it a fair bit anyway.
Thats what I thought about the arches as well, its not a massive job, but it shows its straight nothing to hide. women seems up front enough. insurance £358 fc.
scoob was a lot more, and i expect lot more to run keep etc etc etc! if this thread was about a scoob, there would have been at least one gripe about it by now! 100% positive feedback is unreal!
jamo
lol mum seems to use it a fair bit anyway.Thats what I thought about the arches as well, its not a massive job, but it shows its straight nothing to hide. women seems up front enough. insurance £358 fc.
scoob was a lot more, and i expect lot more to run keep etc etc etc! if this thread was about a scoob, there would have been at least one gripe about it by now! 100% positive feedback is unreal!
jamo
22 September 2004, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by j4mou
I dont like the new shape at all, I have one now as a 3rd runaround its horrible, it will be going, it was just very cheap so grabbed it, but never got around to moving it on lol mum seems to use it a fair bit anyway.
Thats what I thought about the arches as well, its not a massive job, but it shows its straight nothing to hide. women seems up front enough. insurance £358 fc.
scoob was a lot more, and i expect lot more to run keep etc etc etc! if this thread was about a scoob, there would have been at least one gripe about it by now! 100% positive feedback is unreal!
jamo
lol mum seems to use it a fair bit anyway.Thats what I thought about the arches as well, its not a massive job, but it shows its straight nothing to hide. women seems up front enough. insurance £358 fc.
scoob was a lot more, and i expect lot more to run keep etc etc etc! if this thread was about a scoob, there would have been at least one gripe about it by now! 100% positive feedback is unreal!
jamo
They are what they are. Good fun hot hatch that looks cool.
'ardcore mate!! Enjoy.
P.S. I'm not into all the modifying game but I would 100% recommend induction on these, they make a massive difference. Most cars they just add noise but on the Clio 16v's they are excellent. Along with a full stainless exhaust and a strut brace.
Pipercross induction.
Scorpion or Mongoose exhaust.
Excites me talking about these, almost makes me wanna buy one again to thrash around and tinker with. Cheap, fun. WICKED!!
22 September 2004, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Senior_AP
rust on the arches is, how can I say....a GOOD thing.
You know it hasn't been covered up by a bodge job. If its good, buy it then get it fixed yourself properly.
They really are wicked little motors, they sound great to. Far more "Grrr" sounding (so to speak) than the new 172's and stuff.
You know it hasn't been covered up by a bodge job. If its good, buy it then get it fixed yourself properly.
They really are wicked little motors, they sound great to. Far more "Grrr" sounding (so to speak) than the new 172's and stuff.
) The car went back 5 times due to poor colour matching and within 2 years of the repair being done it started bubbling. Now, this was a Main Renault Dealer who did the repair work (accident repair department) who couldnt match a standard Renault colour who's repair didnt last even 2 years FFS.
22 September 2004, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by prodriva
Kind of agree with you on this one AP. However mine got hit on the offside rear quarter within 2 years of ownership. Got the whole quarter panel replaced with the work done by SMC Renault in Alder**** (sorry, Aldershot ) The car went back 5 times due to poor colour matching and within 2 years of the repair being done it started bubbling. Now, this was a Main Renault Dealer who did the repair work (accident repair department) who couldnt match a standard Renault colour who's repair didnt last even 2 years FFS.
) The car went back 5 times due to poor colour matching and within 2 years of the repair being done it started bubbling. Now, this was a Main Renault Dealer who did the repair work (accident repair department) who couldnt match a standard Renault colour who's repair didnt last even 2 years FFS.
22 September 2004, 12:16 PM
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Then you'll be pleased to know (if your local anyway) that I have found a very good one. SMC Renault in St' Johns, Woking, Surrey. Very helpful and when my plipper needed re-synchronysing they did it for free while I waited.
IIRC they supplied the Phase 1 Clio V6 to EVO Magazine and EVO rated them highly too.
IIRC they supplied the Phase 1 Clio V6 to EVO Magazine and EVO rated them highly too.
22 September 2004, 12:26 PM
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I had a 1993 16Valver for 3 years and about 50,000 miles (until I rolled it - watch out for that massive lift-off oversteer!!!!)
I must admit that it was a cracking car when it was working - unfortunately it spent a lot of its life in the dealers. The usual stuff (as described by prodriva), clutch cable, fan control, core plug, door pins, suspension spring.....
It used to use tons of oil, as I think the valve guides were worn and the head gasket leaked on the water side, and I found the dealer to be both very expensive and very poor with respect to customer service.
However, I still loved it ;-)
Just make sure you get it properly checked and find a good specialist to service it.
Dibs
I must admit that it was a cracking car when it was working - unfortunately it spent a lot of its life in the dealers. The usual stuff (as described by prodriva), clutch cable, fan control, core plug, door pins, suspension spring.....
It used to use tons of oil, as I think the valve guides were worn and the head gasket leaked on the water side, and I found the dealer to be both very expensive and very poor with respect to customer service.
However, I still loved it ;-)
Just make sure you get it properly checked and find a good specialist to service it.
Dibs
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