PaulMc

Just tentavivley thinking about selling the P1. Hopefully about to buy a new house and although not absolutely necessary, selling the P1 would release cash and make for an easier life.

So, what do i 'maybe' replace the P1 with. Has to have 'Evo-ness' and good residuals. The Mini Cooper S....with the new Hartge 210-215 Bhp kit and 18" wheels. Would be interested in hearing from anybody who has driven the Cooper S on what they think of the 'lil car.

Any constructive comments appreciated

[Edited by PaulMc - 1/17/2003 1:05:24 PM]

merkin

erm, by the time you take a cooper S, spec it up reasonably, and pay for the hartge kit, it'll cost more than the P1 would sell for, does that not defeat the object a bit???

[Edited by merkin - 1/17/2003 1:09:57 PM]

PaulMc

Agree to a point with you Merkin. After looking around I don't think so. A good low mileage 2nd hand mini cooper S is going to be approx 14-15k depending on dealer or private seller. The Hartge conersion is £1760 inc VAT and fitting. The wheels and tyres..ok £1800-2k. So £18700 should be the approx price. I would like to think I could get good money for the P1 as it is mint with well below average mileage and full WR pack. Of course insurance and running costs should also save some money over the scoob.

workshy_fopp

They're great cars, and well in need of a wee boost from Mr.Hartge,
but as Merkin said, with the upgrades, you won't see much change out of 20k unless you order a base spec one. Much cheaper to run though, **** all depreciation, and £100 for 3 (or is it now 5) years servicing, 3 yr warranty, roadside assistance etc.
I got 19mpg on a test drive, so I would expect 25-30 in "normal" useage.
But they are feckin good fun, no matter what you drive now, and they will cling on to the **** of anything through the twisties
My mate nearly crashed his TL1000S cos he was trying so hard, when I was chasing him in a standard Cooper though the twisties, and he can really go a bike.
Take a test drive and see if its your thing.

CooperS

Loads of fun mate!
I'm looking at the Hartge Pack too, this month's Evo has a test of it, they give it the fabled 5 star rating.

Check out the forum on www.mini2.com

A few on there have had it done already.

Andy

Jeff Wiltshire

AmD have a 240BHP Cooper S conversion !

GaryC

Given what immense fun Mrs C's normal Cooper (with 17" and sports suspension plus ) is, with a power increase to 200/215bhp, the Hartage S is going to be one hell of a car. Very similar PWR to the P1, less overall weight and better handling will make it more of a comparable steed than initial assumptions will dictate (wet condition aside )

The Total cost will be within a grand or two of the current value of the P1, but as stated above, 5 years (it is 5) servicing for £100, far lower consumption of tyres/brakes, cheaper insurance, better ave. mpg and immensly strong residuals*, the cost of ownership will be a fraction of the P1 - and an easily justified 'buy with the head' sensible move

* residuals - Mrs C's Mini is 14 months old and has 9000 on the clock. It is a Cooper with Chilli pack, full leather, 17" wheels, Boost+CD, spot lamps, white light pack, silver with black roof and tinted windows. Cost when new - £14,700. MINI garage offered her £14,500 PX against a £17k CooperS demonstrator. £200 depreciation in 14months My Impreza lost almost as much as that per week

workshy_fopp

So you had a test drive and didn't buy one either Gary?

Chins

Had a Cooper S for 6 weeks. Vastly overated. Dont get 17" wheels, and I got more mickey taking and gay jokes in 6 weeks than most can handle (and I spent 6 years in the Military so can handle S*** throwing) The car struggled with 160 odd bhp let alone 200. Did ok on resale, but thats all I can say. Build quality is usual Oxford crap. The steering wheel is from a Maxi just to top it off. Cooper might be a better balance. Great wifes car. No man should be caught during the week in one.

Jonathan

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Ha Ha Ha, sell a P1 for a Mini, have a word with yourself mate.

GaryC

I haven't driven one, Mrs C was just offered that straight off at it's first service.


Surprised at your comment Jonathon (but then you never seem to like the cars you buy ) Everyone I have spoken to has loved the S? including all the car mags - most of whom have said how well the car manages to put 160bhp through the front wheels and how it could take more?? (now backed up with EVOs 5 star rating of the Hartage.)

As for the 17" wheels, Mrs C's started off on std 16" wheels until the 17" were launched and the handling is far better on 17". As for the maxi steering wheel I agree it isn't the best I've come across as the big horizontal 'spokes' are too thick, but aside from thet I think it's fine?

Of course if all you care is what others think....

Chins

Gary

I thought it was just me, but two other guys I know who bought their Cooper S's at the same time got rid of quickly. The backend was less stable than my wife when I come home with a new car

I know I got a slatting on Mini2 for my comments. Interestingly all BMW press cars come with 16" wheels. You'll also notice that EVO recently commented on the 16 vs 17. I also spoke to another owner who swaped from 17 to 16 and feels its a different car. The run flats are a very heavy tyre and could be to blame. What are you running ? I also wonder if the tyre's didnt help with wet weather grip. The traction control worked overtime in slightly damp situations. Hence my concern for 200+bhp.

There are some cars Ive loved, but quite a few I havnt. Maybe a classy Saab interior with Scooby running gear could be the answer

Jonathan

GaryC

Tyres are Goodyear run flats IIRC (too wet and cold to go outside and check )

Traction control on FWD is always very active, hell my (very)old 50bhp golf used to spin it's front wheels in the wet Mrs C's TC light is always flashing (especially with her driving )

Do know what you mean about a loose backend (THE CAR... ) Underbraking you can feel the weight balance shift and make the make end very light....nice bit of oversteer to be had on a wet roundabout if you really push it

Have to say, Mrs Cs MINI is about the most chuckable fun car I have driven (and I've driven almost as many as you've owned ). Part of that is down to the 'sports suspension plus' and wheels though as the std cooper normal suspension and 16" she had as a loaner was no where near as much fun. Won't let her try the S as I know she will drive home it

mnangrybeats

My Cooper S goes in to Birds uk sometime early next month..

I'm getting the
215hp upgrade
Stop-Tech 328x28mm Big 4 pot Brake conversion
And stiffer and lowering springs..

All FWD drive cars suffer from traction problems in damp conditions ever driven a CTR ? [smile] , you dont get any torque steer what so ever and it will handle more power without a problem. Like all cars you need live with the car for a reasonable amount of time before you can understand what it can do. As of yet I havent been shown up by anything down the twisties and I havent found the car to be twitchy at all, ok you can get Lift off oversteer and it will understeer like most powerfull front wheel drive cars but far far more fun than a Scooby imo, hey I prefer driving my Cooper S than the Cerbera I used to own.

The power to weight ration will be 185bhp/ton which is not to be sniffed at..far more than Focus RS, CTR, R32 etc

Chins

Met a guy who'd just had enough of a CTR and gone back to a Scooby today My own Leon has 210bhp and its traction control light is a lot less active than a 163bhp Cooper S. I will one day get round to trying the Cooper S with something like the Hartage conversion and 16" wheels or non runflats.

Each to their own, but I'll take my new R32 next week

Jonathan

PaulMc

Thanks all for your constrcutive comments, except J4cko . I have run Impreza's now for over 5 years. They are no longer a Q car and while the P1 residual is high-ish it's time for a change. I will miss the P1's grunt and sound but not the costs or it's changing image.

I have a Cooper S for the day on Friday and I shall make a decision soon after that. I may think it is an awful car, the test drive will show.

I think the Hartge kit is definately required if I purchase one though. 0-100 in 16 secs should keep me on my toes with FWD That's as quick as a standard PPP'd UK WRX.

Ta

[Edited by PaulMc - 1/20/2003 3:59:32 PM]