GaryC

Drove a new Mini Cooper today - what a fabulous little car, and such value

Fantastic build quality (very mini-BMW), cracking styling - inside and out, and as funky as they come.

But once on the road it just gets better Even though it was a pre-production model so was missing the sports seats and sports suspension+ it was one of the most fun cars I have driven. So 'chuckable', such direct, perfectly weighted steering, great handling....a real fun car.

Not that fast only 115hp so Golf GTI nippy rather than fast - until the 170hp supercharged Cooper S comes out but pulled willingly, and was perfectly 'balanced' with the rest of the car.

BUT...the best thing... Value for money that you wouldn't beleive. We fully specc'd a cooper with leather/climate control/'chilli' sports pack/16" wheels/PDC/traction control/CD/metalic/xenon lights/...basically everything on the options list except Sat Nav, and it still came under fifteen grand

Not had as much fun with my clothes on for a long long time....or at least since I sold the Impreza

Guess what Mrs C's next car is going to be!!

polarbearit

!!!! £15k for a mini !!!!

Entry level cooper seems goodish value @ £11k, until you go near that BMW options list! They know how to make you spend, we are going to wait and see what EU imports cost...

Jon

charliecossie

I've seen the Cooper S prototype/development car. It was on a pallet at Frankfurt airport last week. Cracking machine. WANT!.
But I hate BMW (the company) so will not buy.

The Mini One will cost DM26000 over here (rather less than 10 grand)......

polarbearit

Was going to add, it is likely to replace our ZX not the scooby unless the Cooper S is something really special!

Jon

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Order Placed

Hopefully will keep my wife outa PTMW!

NM

Having just purchased my 4dr turbo three months ago I used my mates mechanic to check the car over. The guys job was to test, crash, smash and bash up the new Mini. Also to try out a performance prototype package. Lets just say turning up at a garage forecourt in a £1/2 million 210BHP Mini (YES 210BHP) supprised the **** out of the salesman. He wouldnt take it in as a part ex though. Great car really got some looks especially at 110mph push a MR2 turbo on the M5.

Cheers

NM

GaryC

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by polarbearit:
<B>!!!! £15k for a mini !!!!

Entry level cooper seems goodish value @ £11k, until you go near that BMW options list! They know how to make you spend, we are going to wait and see what EU imports cost...

Jon[/quote]

The options list is very non-BMW like in price. £15k might seem like a lot, until you compare it with similar specc'd competitors, and thats before the drive, cache and build quality

Example option costs..
- "chilli pack" (half leather/sports seats/sports suspension+/16" alloys/roof spolier) - £1000 - most competitors will charge you a grand for the alloys alone!
- full leather interior - £530
- full panoramic glass roof - £500
- auto w/screen wipers & auto rear view mirror £100
- Xenon lights/auto levelling/'power' wash - £350
- Climate control £800 (straight aircon is £600)
- on-board computer - £100

And the best option - for £100 you get 5 years free servicing


Don't get me wrong, this is no scooby beater but as a mid-sized sports hatch is fantastic. The Cooper S will give the hot-hatch brigade a run for their money, especially at under 14-grand, and when/if the rumoured 200hp Alpina version comes out....mmmmmmm


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by charliecossie:
<B>I've seen the Cooper S prototype/development car. It was on a pallet at Frankfurt airport last week. Cracking machine. WANT!.
But I hate BMW (the company) so will not buy.
[/quote]


Would you really let some narrow-minded 'hate' of a car manufacturer stop you buying a great car?? This anti-BMW makes me laugh, no one can ever give a coherent reason why they 'hate' BMW

So go on charliecossie, why do you hate BMW (the company)?

charliecossie

Because of what they did to Rover.
I won't buy another BMW.

JackClark

It's a cool car and you've just got to love those bug eyes

charliecossie, are Rover in that bad a state?

GaryC

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by charliecossie:
<B>Because of what they did to Rover.
I won't buy another BMW.[/quote]

What did they do to Rover??

Apart from take an overpriced, outdated massively loss-making company and gave it the finance to develop and launch two of Rovers best ever cars (MGF and 75). They didn't control it for long enough to make real change, but managed to improve every model in the range, and start the development of several new ones, despite threats of industrial action everytime they suggested an improvement to the business

The only mistake BMW made was not enforcing their own managers on the business, bowing to UK public pressure and retaining majority of the legacy (crap) Rover management.

The "1960's union led classic british automotive workethic" ruined Rover. When BMW reailised it was never going to change, they stopped supporting Rover to the tune of £billions per year and gave the business to someone who thought they could do better, whilst still offering to financially support the new business?? Biggest factor in Rovers decline was the retail price. BMW had put in place plans to 'down-size' each model, making it cheaper and more competitive - they had their move blocked at every stage.

You can't polish a turd. BMW tried, spent £billions trying and are now still helping someone else try!

Rover would have gone bankrupt in the mid-90s without BMW (or someone else doing the same thing).

Time to open your eyes Charlie

polarbearit

Ok some of the options are cheap enough, but is there any reason Air Con and the silver interior aren't standard? And I suspose it does look cheap compared to some of its competitors, but the Saxo VTR/Fiesta Zetec S deliver similar performance (admittedly without the image) for £9k.

The £100 servicing pack seems like a good way of tempting people into uk cars (rather than supermarkets/euro imports).

I will not be buying a mini yet, I want to know what savings I can make importing one, it seems the mini starts at £8k ish in germany, so the prospect of a Cooper S for around £11.5k would be great!

I am a bit concerned about mini fuel consumption though, as the mini cooper only managed 27mpg and as said earlier I would like one instead of our ZX (diesel).

Jon

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Err Gary, the MGF was developed before BMW came along...I know I saw a lot of prototype cars before the take over!

BMW actually hated it, they alswo hated the K series engine because it wasn't their design as was too simple, yet worked rather well...

Anyhow, the new Mini has certainly got me interested...will have to try and drive one, can't wait for the Cooper S though

charliecossie

Sorry fellas, can't agree.
BM didn't *know* what to do with Rover so they tried to compete with themselves (the BM range). Big failure.
Finally realised this and decided to offload.

The above is not just my opinion but also of many others in the motor industry.

mutant_matt

I test drove a Cooper yesterday and really put it through it's paces

I have to say, the handling is not half bad, the front end really goes just where you point it and the brakes are fantastic - better than my Scoob 4 pots anyway!!!!!

Trouble is, the engine is a bit of a nail It's course (however that's spelt ) and the power delivery is very linear, no fun at all and it's very noisy and harsh if you rev it (which you need to to go anywhere ).

It's very nicely put together, looks good and is a nice package but it's not particularly practical (almost no boot, the back seat/leg room is an joke!!), and it's not particularly good as a hot hatch type car either so I won't be buying one for the wife (she liked it less than I did).

The car I drove was £15,000 with all the options which I also think is pricey for what you get....

Matt

RON

I might be totally wrong about this, but, I've had a look at the sales brochure, and if you look at the pictures of the rear suspension and 'subframe' you'll notice that it wouldn't be difficult to bolt a diff to it and have driveshaft to the rear wheels, in fact it almost looks too easy, like it's been designed with that in mind, I reckon that when the hot version comes out we may well see a souped up cooper doing some rallying in 4wd trim, with probably the Alpina package under the bonnet.
We'll just have to wait and see I guess, but I reckon BMW might try to cash in on the rallying heritage of the 'real' Mini!
Ron
ex Mini nut!

Jza

I think they are awesome cars - look the part and are the only small car i wouldnt feel a "girly" driving!!

Want one too. But i think the Cooper S looks like the one to go for. Couldnt believe the prices of options either - they shame Subaru up big time. And £100 for 50000 miles of servicing!!!!!! Lets hope other manufacturers take note and follow suit

Jza

druddle

Well BMW are pushing this one hard as at their UK HQ in Bracknell, for every BMW flag and sign there is now a "Mini" or "Cooper" sign or flag !!!

How did the song go...........we are the self preservation society da da da.....

dave

Tom Evans

I like the look of the new Mini a lot, but I wouldn't buy one. I was on work experience at Rover Group (Gaydon) in Feb. 2000 (also there in Nov. '99) and it was the Rover engineers who designed/tested it. It was they who put all the work into it and BMW pinched it when they left Rover AND they will take all the credit.

My mum worked there and would come back saying that they would let Rover get on with it and then change their minds the next. The Rover engineers would then have to start again.

I agree with charliecossie. BMW did not have a clue what they were doing. When they bought Rover they let them get on with it. They then realised that this wasn't working and became very heavy handed, which the Rover employees resented. Also, how many cars were built by Rover under BMW?? I think it's 1/2, in how many years??

Also, they started to build the BMW X5 when they told Land Rover they weren't going to rival them. The X5 is potentially a competitor to the Range Rover (although cheaper). When they left, they took the Mini with them, a small car which they do not have in their range. Left LR as had the X5. Fact is they did not put in any work on the new Mini and they're getting the credit for that, and I'm afraid no-one acknowledges that.

That's why I wouldn't have one

Cheers,
Tom

Tractor

Ooooh....now what you all really want is the Mini Cooper S with Cooper Garange's tuning kit.......200bhp mini anyone? Bet that car would **** off some fairly serious machinery....including the odd scoob

GaryC

Rover competed with BMW?? where how and when?? Apart a VERY minor overlap with the 75 and 3-series, there was no competition between the two - hence why BMW bought Rover

The MGF program might have started but it was BMW money (in the two years from purchase to launch) that made it happen, and made it the car it is. BMW didn't have long term future plans for the K-series as future emmisions regs will kill it - hence they are developing their own small 4-cyl engines with Chrysler.

When BMW realised the Rover management couldn't run the business (or manage their way out of a paper bag) they sent their own guys their - but got a barage of opposition, and union threats - hence in 1998 the plans were put in place to flog the dying horse before it sucked even more money out of the Quandt family coffers. The Rover plants were THE most un-productive car plants in Europe. BMW increased car/workers by 70% despite the british work ethic and management, not through it

Polarbearit - you really think the Mini will be availble for 8 grand import? good luck The price as been set so that the german price (which is set to be DM26000-DM28000), when subjected to VAT will make the car as expensive if not more so than in the UK the service package will be the icing on the cake And where do you get the 27mpg from? the official EU combined figure is 42mpg?

Matt - the course engine note thing had be confused. All the road tests complain about it, but the car I drove was fine, and gave a nice little rasp under acceleration. The only thing I put it down to was the car we drove at almost 2500 miles on the clock and had loosened up??

Tom - Were you subject to brainwashing there the New Mini was the idea/brainchild of BMW and more exactly Bernd Pieschtrieder (sp). And is suspected to be the real reason BMW bought Rover. But then the Rover engineers would never admit to that would they The Rover ideas were the 'Spiritual' concept cars seen at the motorshow c4/5 years ago. The car may have been physically designed and developed partly in the UK, but it was purely under BMWs control. One look at it, inside or out, will show there is nothing 'Rover' about it - good or bad The X5 was on the cards before the Rover purchase, and uses no RR technology (just utilised the 4x4 know-how of LR so underused before BMW's development capital). The development of the RR (using X5 platform etc) is reckoned to be so good, Ford insisted on the full support of BMW so as not to water down the main strength of the vehicle. Furthermore the Range Rover and X5 were NEVER going to compete. The new Range Rover was a pure luxury car, with a expected starting price over 10 grand higher than the top (std) X5. Hence why since selling LR, BMW have talked of an X7 to compete with the Range Rover. BMW did landrover an absolute world of good, they made it profitable and restored it to be the no.1 off-road manufacturer in Europe - largely through the development and release of the freelander. Hence why Ford paid BMW $2Billion for it BMW resented having to sell Landrover, but had to start offsetting the massive losses Rover had generated


The Germans are just so easy to hate Take a look at ANY british mass-car producers - oh you can't - there arn't any why - because of union supported british work-ethic in the automotive industry. Without the Germans/Yanks/Japanese there would be no cars made in the UK, except the very low volume manufacturers - TVR/Morgan genre! You would think 'we' would learn!

Anyway - back on to the subject in question - The mini has been ordered delivery in October but with over 30% of the first years allocation gone in the first week at least residual values are looking good We did look at the A-Class, and whilst it bettered the mini on space and was nice, but spec for spec it was almost SIX GRAND more expensive and didn't drive/ride/go/look any where near as well

NM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tractor:
<B>Ooooh....now what you all really want is the Mini Cooper S with Cooper Garange's tuning kit.......200bhp mini anyone? Bet that car would **** off some fairly serious machinery....including the odd scoob [/quote]

Ive got a pic of the 210BHP supercharged prototype on 17inch wheels somewhere. Visually, apart from the wheels is a great big air intake on the front of the bonnet. The engine was so tight that the front subframe was removable so you could get to the engine. Nice car caused a lot of people to take a second look. That was quick even with 4 of us in it.

NM

charliecossie

Hey GaryC, you're obviously in love with BMW.
If you think Germans are such hard workers you should spend some time over here (I do, I live here) and perhaps open your own eyes.

polarbearit

GaryC

I will put money on EU imports starting @ around £8k for the One and just over £9k for a cooper. Germans still pay a form VAT which is reclaimed/not payed when importing the car, so discounting german sales Tax and adding in UK VAT won't make it that much dearer. Hey but I don't mind if you still like paying over the odds for UK sourced vehiclies

As for the 27mpg, that was the figure recorded by Autocar when the drove the mini cooper from one end of the country to the other. I know this is not representative of chugging around town, but it set alarm bells ringing in my mind!

I want to buy a new mini, I really do, but I won't be rushing out to buy the 1st for the above reasons.

Good luck with your mini and defending the mighty BMW against us tin pot Jap saloon car owners!

Jon

GaryC

I'm not 'in love' with BMW, nor am I 'defending' them, I just don't have blinkers on and say it as it is And I certainly don't want to spend any time in germany I started this by extolling the virtues of a great little car

What pisses me off is the British mentality in manufacturing. Resist and bitch about any form of change - or even having to work for a living, walk out on strike at the first moment, complain when the business has to cost cut and then blame everyone else when things go wrong You only need to see the almost daily interviews with some form of the british workforce at home time. The attitude of 'it is my right to have my job - I am doing my employer a favour by turning up' is just incredible, and the main reason why British manufacturing is in the dire state it is

Polarbearit - you have a chip on your shoulder about something?? I haven't compared let alone defended BMW against 'tin pot jap' manufacturers. The japs are even further ahead of the British than the germans in automotive manufacturing and VFM (except the VFM of options )

Oh and if autocar can average 27mpg when rodding a new car, then 40mpg for normal drivers is well within reach This is the same Autocar that averaged 15mpg in an Impreza

Good luck in waiting for your 8k mini/9k cooper

Fosters

Just remember chaps, it's got a chrysler neon engine in it.

GaryC

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Fosters:
<B>Just remember chaps, it's got a chrysler neon engine in it.

[/quote]

It's not even a neon engine, it smaller and less powerful than that (neon is a 2.0) It was developed as a Jv with Chrysler, but since the M-B tie up, BMW are merely customers of the engine - not surprisingly. Still doesn't stop it being a hoot though

Diablo

Hmmm...

The whole Rover/Bmw issue.

Rover was stuffed before BMW bought the company. Has been financially gubbed (technical term ) for years.

The biggest problem with Rover was the legacy of the great british workers tea break/work to rule/strike/etc/etc syndrome. Rover has never recovered from the 70's and 80's. The only ones to blame are the management, unions, and employees.

Sure BMW failed. And big time. But BMW's biggest mistake was to buy Rover in the first place.

lets hope that MG can do the business with whats left

polarbearit

Gary
Apologies - No chip on my shoulder, it just seemed you were correcting people (ie Subaru owners) on their opinions of BMW.

I have to agree totally about British manufacturing and its wholehearted resistance to change combined with poor management - It is amazing that Rover lasted to the 90's really and without BAe/Honda it almost certainly wouldn't. I'm not even too bothered about the what BMW did to Rover, I think they payed far too much in the 1st place and cut their loss when BMW management changed.

Just one thing though, how long will BMW stay a 'premium brand' and particularly the 3 series which was the 17th best selling car in the world last year, over 400000 shifted! ie More than double (common, not premium) Rover's total annual output.

As I said, hopefully we will get an imported mini next year and it won't cost £10k and will be a cooper, which is good enough for me, but please do tell me what sort of mpg you get from yours.

Jon

merlin

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GaryC:
<B>...What pisses me off is the British mentality in manufacturing. Resist and bitch about any form of change - or even having to work for a living, walk out on strike at the first moment, complain when the business has to cost cut and then blame everyone else when things go wrong You only need to see the almost daily interviews with some form of the british workforce at home time. The attitude of 'it is my right to have my job - I am doing my employer a favour by turning up' is just incredible, and the main reason why British manufacturing is in the dire state it is
[/quote]

I'm sure that the guys at Sunderland, Derby and Swindon would have something to say about this...

Diablo

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by merlin:
<B> I'm sure that the guys at Sunderland, Derby and Swindon would have something to say about this... [/quote]

I'm sure they will. Doesn't mean they are all right, though.

Things may be different now, but for many years the great british workforce shot itself in the foot.