Luke

Just how the hell can they charge a fiver to pass through central London??? We have paid for the roads.... Jesus what the hell is R/tax for???????? the main roads around central London,Northcirc etc will be a nightmare....

jon hill

having lived in central london (wapping) and working there for several years, all i can say is - about bloody time

just imho

rsquire

Flying in from Seattle to spend a quick tenner

Well I really don't know if I'm comin or going

Luke

John...Wapping is another planet mate!!!!

jon hill

but the huge stream of traffic in and out of london every day really is barking mad. Finally some action is being taken. People (especially on this board) seem to get incredibly protective about their use of the car as if theres some god given right to drive where, when and how fast as the individual sees fit; there's got to be some realisation that a ton of metal running on petrol isnt the most ideal way of getting around a city that was designed before the horse and cart.

i'm not really up for the congestion charging - i'd go a step further and ban cars from a) the city and b) large parts of the west end

father_jack

I used to live in Wapping too - mad traffic - I nearly died from the fumes whilst waiting 2 hours for the RAC to turn up.
I don't live in London now so I couldn't give a t0ss - but the French wouldn't stand for this kind of thing. Put bin bags over the cameras

Nigel H

I agree with John.

There's got to be some incentive to get people out of cars. Paying is a good start, provided the money goes to fund transport improvements.

There are good alternatives to using your car in London (trains, buses, taxis, pedal bikes) if you're prepared to use them. I think people need to show some responsibility and try to use alteratives.

Besides, where's the enjoyment in driving a Scoob round the traffic infested roads of London?

Jolly Green Monster 2

Yeah but an alternative is required!

The underground is already at capacity!

Sort out a viable public transport and then try and discourage people further!

chiark

London is the one place in the country with a public transport infrastructure that makes sense. OK the tube is a nightmare during peak times, but the point is that it works. As do London buses.

I lived on the Isle of Dogs before the Jubilee line extension, and the DLR, warts 'n' all, was the only sensible way of getting into the City.

The charge sounds, on the surface, like a good idea.

My concern is that the powers that be will say "oh look, it worked in London, let's do it in Manchester/Birmingham/Leeds/...". Or indeed, any other large city which does not have a public transport infrastructure.

Nick.

jon hill

three things

a) cycle (radical, i know)
b) bus (i used to get the bus to canary wharf - 10 minute journey and it was always empty)
c) if you think the tube is "at capacity" then you should go work in tokyo for a while

It is crazy though - go stand on the highway and see the cues of stationary traffic, then wonder at people getting upset at congestion charges. Then wait till it clears and watch the cars coming down from tower bridge at 60 mph into the red traffic lights, and be amazed at all whining "anti-speeding lobby", "they're out to get us", "we should be able to drive at any speed as long as I think i'm acting responsibly"

HELLOM8

Yes we have to bring down congestion in the City's and around the county, but making motoring so expensive that everyone avoids the City’s and just make all the other rounds even more than they already are.
It’s the same with trying to reduce congestion by 50%, make it near impossible to drive a car. If 50% of people who drove to work this morning got Public transport instead, I think the country would come to a stand still.
Who about creating an incentive for people to buy/convert to low emissions cars.
Change vehicles to go through London, but let electric/gas cars go through for free perhaps.
I think we should be looking at these gas/electric gas so that in years to come everyone drives in the City using the electrical charge and switch to gas out of town.
At the end of the day, even if they ban cars from 80% of England I’ll still drive my car.
Cheers.
Ian.

jon hill

chiark - yep agree with that

i feel very sorry for the folk who live in rural areas (i dont mean deepest surrey here, but say the west coast of scotland) who have no choice. Systems which "tax" the richest users, i.e. us london commuters, are ok in my book if it balances life for others

I'm being very liberal this morning

dont worry tomorrow I'll start a campaign to completely concrete the british isles. Actually, its been done, the ABD exists already...

jon hill

hellom8 - totally agree

but can you imagine the uproar ? "whats this world coming too ? this government isnt allowing me to drive my 500 bhp 8mpg 200 db works rally car down the Kings Road. I dont want to drive something with a top speed of only 80mph..." etc, etc

Dracoro

This is what happens when a cartoon character gets control of london (remember rhubarb from 'rhubarb and custard' - i.e. Ken Livingstone).
The GLA (or whatever they call themselves) & the govt know that the tube/buses/trains etc. are all full so the car drivers can't really move onto these other forms of transport, therefore they have to pay the £5 as there's no other choice. All done under the banner of 'congestion' taxing. - There's also congestion on our tubes you know!!!!!! are we going to get charged even more for that too!
There is only one real solution to this (let's face it, the public transport system ain't getting any better) and that's to have less people travelling into london. More encouragement to business and industry to have offices in other areas. Docklands is a start, & so is M4 corridor industries etc.

Hmmm, I hear there's a job going as transport secretary!

Dream Weaver

I presume you are referring to the congestion tax?

Well, they did say on the news last night, that it would generate 5.7 billion in revenue and would mean the government can get rid of road tax. This would seem fairer to me.

I work from an office at home, and hence pay £160 road tax for hardly any miles - it would seem fairer for those that do travel to pay the tax, and people like me to pay the tax when I use the roads - a PAYG model

DW

jon hill

yep (again. there seems to be an influx of sensible people all of a sudden. where have all the usual loonies gone ?)

the pay as you go system makes sense to me. you pay for what you use. London is more expensive than the Isle of Mull. simple

Elvis Presley

Here's an easier way to get people out of their cars:

Make the driving test much harder. (Equivalent to advanced).

Retest everyone every five years.

This would cut the number of cars by half I swear. There are so many useless drivers out there. People would be forced onto public transport. Roads would be less crowded. Less maintainence, less accidents. Higher speed limits. No tailgaters, middle lane hoggers etc.

Cars for those who are skilled drivers, NOT JUST THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD IT!!!


(Sorry. I keep going on about this one. Perhaps I should write to Tony?)

Dream Weaver

They are all back at school now

DW

jon hill

LOL @ DW

i guess we wait til 4pm or thereabouts...

Luke

Dracoro.. Good point.

The public transport in London is terrible. The tubes are unsafe ,dirty and very expensive. All it will do is lead to major congestions outside the "Payzone". Try using the underground!!! How come there is no maximum amount of people allowed in a carriage??? Sure there is a problem... But how will they spend the money raised??? the same as the road tax revenue....

My initial post wasan open invite!! I find the replies very interesting!!!

nom

I have the joy of being on the line that seperates the charge area from the no charge area. This means that I would get all the traffic stacking up around me, and also would have to pay to go to my local shopping center.

Yet another one of those things where good 'ol Ken supports the cash thing rather than trying to look after those who actually live in London. Reduce congestion? Nope, just higher charges for anything transport related (of course all local vans, etc. will pass their charges on to us, the locals, who have to pay to use their local shopping area) and that's it. Whoopee.
It seems a little closed-minded to cripple Westminster, which already heavily subsidises the rest of London. All charges will go up, so companies 'on the edge' will move out, so... well, not good things will happen.

camk

The issue I see is taht its just another foxy revenue generator, when they upped Road Tax and Fuel Duties many times over the last decade it was always mentioned to use the cash to improve roads and Public Transport, what evidence do we have of either being drastically improved in that time. None, cash cow and short memories are a great revenure source.

Regards
Cammy

Ray T

I actually have the misfortune that i have to drive through this proposed zone from the marble arch corner up to regents park, now i come through at anywhere between 7:30-8:30 am( coming south to south ken) and 17:00- 19:00( south ken up to swiss cottage)dropping and picking up GF in the zone on route, and the only bit of "congestion" i see (AM) is in baker street and on observation its all down to a set of traffic lights which just holds at red for an inordinate amount of time!! the moment i'm through this the back streets are empty and i'm down at hyde park in 5 to 6 mins, in the evening the trip up is usually a bit quicker again very empty back roads.
And as for the tube and bus brigade, try getting on a bus travelling north up gloucester place in the rush hour, their normally packed out (i've tried this!!)one after another,it's also not unknown to have to see 2 or 3 tube trains (if your lucky)go through before you can manage to shoehorn yourself on!!.

By the way i also have a yearly season ticket (£1067)so i am supporting the "travel network".

In closing my car journey in rush ( congested)hour's normally takes between 20-25 mins morning and night.
bus about an hour (usually more)
tube 45 mins (if its all running right).

so "Red" Ken needs to get real, he is now in effect placing an extra tax on people just trying to get to work, so we can afford to pay all the other taxes we subject too, does make you wonder if its all worth it sometimes.

sorry about the extended rant.

ray t

(clearing up misspelling have to learn to get it right first time)


[Edited by Ray T - 2/26/2002 4:39:45 PM]

johnwiz

iTrader: (26)

I suppose something had to happen,In Athens they've had alternate days restrictions on travelling in the city centre for years based on your Reg No.
(I think it's odd numbers one day & evens the next).
Does anyone know if this charge applies to motorcycles? I know the newt-loving one is planning to scrap free motorcycle parking in the city.(Very encouraging in cutting congestion I don't think!)And to think I used to be a Red Ken fan............ John

boomer

What i can't understand is that it seems that taxis also have to pay GBP5 per day. Maybe Ken would rather there were no taxis in Central London either (thus more room for bus lanes).

Five quid extra, when parking is twenty-five quid will put very few "out of town" drivers off, but will screw the locals bigtime.

mb

jasey

Why not charge £5000 to get in to the city - then they could give the money to the car jackers etc. thus solving 3 problems. The cities would less jammed, car crime would be reduced and the hard pressed police force would have less to do

johnfelstead

Hmmmmmm

Time to think about converting one of those fliper bike number plates to a car model i think.

http://www.bike2track.co.uk/Products/FlipTip.htm

People in this country amaze me, always happy to pay more for crackpot ideas when we really need a complete overhaul of the entire public transport system before anymore charges. Of course that wont happen as the government hasnt the ***** to do it! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

[Edited by johnfelstead - 2/26/2002 11:01:22 PM]

Josh L

They used Singapore as an example on the box and, from my experience, it seems to works well there. The smart card that goes in the on-dash reader can also be used to pay for car parking as well as other things.

The best reason for Tony's croneys not to use Singapore as example is that they have a superb public transport system in Singapore, and we have........well.........ours.

It's the same old Labour attitude of trying to force drivers off the roads, without actually giving them an alternative. If they spent some more of the 70 odd pence of every pound fuel tax we pay on the roads and public transport first I, for one, wouldn't have a problem with their proposals.

Josh

SWRTWannabe

As far as I can see, all we are doing is paying for the governments incompetence. Instead of penalizing vehicle drivers, why not look at why people use their car over public transport.

For some people, especially outside London, it is a necessity. However, I would imagine that the unreliable public transport system pays a large part. If instead improvements were made to public transport then I'm sure a lot of people would use it instead.

Currently though, our rail network is a mess, and added to the fact that the underground is overcrowded, it is no wonder that people are turning to their cars to make their journeys.

jasey

When I eventually had enough of trying to LIVE in London it wasn't the overcrowded trains - it was Jimmy Knapp's approach to Industrial relations - the Railway unions seem to be at it again - Drivers get pay rises then the Guards have to keep up - then the cleaners will have to catch up and if Labour doesn't pay for it we'll be back to strikes and all that good stuff - last time was bad enough but the next time will be dreadful - Thankfully I've turned my back on all that ****E and moved up to Scotland - best thing I ever did - recommend it to all you poor suffering souls - it will not get better