Got a Marantz PM17Ki Sig BUT.....
15 August 2005, 09:56 PM
#1
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Got a Marantz PM17Ki Sig BUT.....
totally fantastic amp BUT so many of the tunes i love sound like **** on it
totally not amused with the amount of guff some cds sound like! infact my AV Amp sounds better with some of the music!
totally not amused with the amount of guff some cds sound like! infact my AV Amp sounds better with some of the music!
15 August 2005, 10:45 PM
#2
If your interconnects cost less that £500, then that's your problem 
Seriously though what are you missing ausio-wise?
Possibly could be your amp/speaker combo. Some amps do work better with other speakers, perhaps even re-positioning maybe a cheap and easy fix.
Stupid question though...the speakers are wired in phase aren't they? (+ve to +ve on both channels etc etc...it does get a bit easy to mix up when bi-wiring etc). And make sure you haven't got a bad earth connection on your connects to the CD player- so give them a twiddle.
Ah well you could aways do what the guys on teh AV sites do and wire a dedicated mains circuit breaker with a gold plated mains plug
Seriously though what are you missing ausio-wise?
Possibly could be your amp/speaker combo. Some amps do work better with other speakers, perhaps even re-positioning maybe a cheap and easy fix.
Stupid question though...the speakers are wired in phase aren't they? (+ve to +ve on both channels etc etc...it does get a bit easy to mix up when bi-wiring etc). And make sure you haven't got a bad earth connection on your connects to the CD player- so give them a twiddle.
Ah well you could aways do what the guys on teh AV sites do and wire a dedicated mains circuit breaker with a gold plated mains plug
16 August 2005, 08:58 AM
#4
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I think like PowerJunkie says, a lot of recorded music is over-compressed to make it "radio friendly" .... these usually sound thin and nasty on a decent system ....
A mate of mine many years back got a pretty good system for the time, Planar 3 deck, Cyrus amp etc. He hated the way it sounded 'cos he liked metal and hard rock, he said it sounded all distorted on his new system compared with his old "music centre". We told him that's what it's SUPPOSED to sound like
A mate of mine many years back got a pretty good system for the time, Planar 3 deck, Cyrus amp etc. He hated the way it sounded 'cos he liked metal and hard rock, he said it sounded all distorted on his new system compared with his old "music centre". We told him that's what it's SUPPOSED to sound like
16 August 2005, 09:51 AM
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I spent a $hitload on upgrading my hifi a while back. Cyrus 8x CD player, Cyrus 8vs amp, 2x Cyrus PSX-R regulated PSUs. The whole lot is running off a filtered mains supply block, and playing through £20/m speaker cable with £1300 Dynaudio speakers.
What's noticable is how badly mixed/recorded some CDs are, you really couldn't tell listening to the same tracks on the radio or on an iPod. The better the system can resolve detail, the more it will expose flaws in the recording/mixing process.
It's a bit depressing, some CDs I used to like listening to I just can't put them on the hifi or it's like pulling teeth. The upside is, I've started listening to some completely different stuff (for me) recently purely on grounds that it's been written/recorded/produced well, rather than it being of a particular genre.
Mostly listening to Amy Winehouse, Diana Krall and Evenescence at the moment.
What's noticable is how badly mixed/recorded some CDs are, you really couldn't tell listening to the same tracks on the radio or on an iPod. The better the system can resolve detail, the more it will expose flaws in the recording/mixing process.
It's a bit depressing, some CDs I used to like listening to I just can't put them on the hifi or it's like pulling teeth. The upside is, I've started listening to some completely different stuff (for me) recently purely on grounds that it's been written/recorded/produced well, rather than it being of a particular genre.
Mostly listening to Amy Winehouse, Diana Krall and Evenescence at the moment.
16 August 2005, 10:05 AM
#6
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This is the problem with the audio industry Since audio kit has become more affordable, every man and his dog think they're sound engineers, when in reality, they could mix a cake let alone a track!!
Nothing makes up for years of experience ()
Regrettably, many of the record companys are after the entire project finished, delivered to them on a plate. This involves obviously "doing it in-house"..... usually ending up in cr@p results.
That said, there are many CDs that sound brilliant, as all the attributes are of high quality.
CD-mastering is a black-art. Not just anybody can do it. Sorry to p1ss on people's fires. I've been a mixing engineer for the last 15 years, working in the best studios in the world (not just UK), however, after working with some of the best mastering engineers in the world, I wouldn't even profess to know exactly what they do.
CDs a cr@p format anyway, and don't even get me started on MP3!!! Digital sound is rubbish (once you look at the theory behind it - it's a representation or snapshot, but it will never ever be an accurate reproduction).
<off the soapbox>
Back to your post though - as daft as it may sound, is your HIFI setup in the same place as your old one? It's amazing the difference room acoustics can play on the sound.....
Just a thought (kind of anyway!!)
Dan
Since audio kit has become more affordable, every man and his dog think they're sound engineers, when in reality, they could mix a cake let alone a track!!Nothing makes up for years of experience (
) Regrettably, many of the record companys are after the entire project finished, delivered to them on a plate. This involves obviously "doing it in-house"..... usually ending up in cr@p results.
That said, there are many CDs that sound brilliant, as all the attributes are of high quality.
CD-mastering is a black-art. Not just anybody can do it. Sorry to p1ss on people's fires. I've been a mixing engineer for the last 15 years, working in the best studios in the world (not just UK), however, after working with some of the best mastering engineers in the world, I wouldn't even profess to know exactly what they do.
CDs a cr@p format anyway, and don't even get me started on MP3!!!
Digital sound is rubbish (once you look at the theory behind it - it's a representation or snapshot, but it will never ever be an accurate reproduction).<off the soapbox>
Back to your post though - as daft as it may sound, is your HIFI setup in the same place as your old one? It's amazing the difference room acoustics can play on the sound.....
Just a thought (kind of anyway!!
)Dan
16 August 2005, 05:26 PM
#7
CD is a good format if the whole process is done right from recording to pressing. The A-D's quality is most important, unfortunately Protools is the industry standard, the problem is its A-D's are crap. I use Soundscape systems, which have much better more natural sounding converters (they also don’t crash every 5 mins). Then for the mixing, I don’t like doing them on a digital desk, give me a good Amek, Neve analogue desk etc fed into some really high quality converters running at 24 bit 88.2k. this gives the mastering boys good stuff to work on then it is just a ÷2 conversion into Cda. I know 16bit 44.1k only has a resolution of 65.536 but it can sound good
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16 August 2005, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Iwan
The upside is, I've started listening to some completely different stuff (for me) recently purely on grounds that it's been written/recorded/produced well, rather than it being of a particular genre.
Mostly listening to Amy Winehouse, Diana Krall and Evenescence at the moment.
Mostly listening to Amy Winehouse, Diana Krall and Evenescence at the moment.
Ironic that spending an obscene amount of money on hi-fi has actually reduced your listening pleasure!
16 August 2005, 06:43 PM
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I wouldn't really say it has reduced my listening pleasure, but it has made me start looking in other directions I might not have otherwise have started looking. I think that's a good thing, I mean I'm hardly going to listen to the same genre (death metal) for my entire life. Tastes change over time, clearly mine are different to yours, but both are equally valid IMO.
16 August 2005, 06:53 PM
#10
Indeed there are albums out there that sound like they were literally thrown together, however, be it CD or Mp3 it is noticeable. Bit like the very first CDs released sounded what I would say "flat" or at worst tinny and imo awful making me very unconvinced of this new fangled technology, and plodded on with vinyl and tapes for quite soem time. I had the same opinion with wma and mp3 until finding out that bit rates and the actual ripping software can make a huge differences.
But IMO poorly mixed/recorded CDs are noticable on pretty much any half decent currys/comet midi system though. Even if the "Super-Dooper-Arsolicious-Mega-Bass-Blaster" detracts from it somewhat
But IMO poorly mixed/recorded CDs are noticable on pretty much any half decent currys/comet midi system though. Even if the "Super-Dooper-Arsolicious-Mega-Bass-Blaster" detracts from it somewhat
16 August 2005, 07:43 PM
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Did you home demo the kit? Your front room (or wherever) is never going to replicate a dedicated listening room or even my living room.
Though the mixing & engineering comments are valid and highly debatable, you've interestingly singled out the amp rather than the CD, speakers, cables or positioning, so it looks like you've done some research as to where the problem lies? Maybe it's time to look at some other systems out there within your budget and home demo them to see where the 'fault' lies.
And don't let the sceptics diss the Gold plated plug, resonation damping, filtered mains arguments.. because if they are installed and/or mixed BADLY then they WILL make a difference..
Though the mixing & engineering comments are valid and highly debatable, you've interestingly singled out the amp rather than the CD, speakers, cables or positioning, so it looks like you've done some research as to where the problem lies? Maybe it's time to look at some other systems out there within your budget and home demo them to see where the 'fault' lies.
And don't let the sceptics diss the Gold plated plug, resonation damping, filtered mains arguments.. because if they are installed and/or mixed BADLY then they WILL make a difference..
16 August 2005, 08:04 PM
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Six months ago i bought a Marantz PM17 mk1 off ebay for £200.Its in perfect condition but i never use it.Basically it sounds awful so 'ive stuck to my 15 year old Pioneer A400.
The problem with the sound is it sounds really flat and dull.Its like the speakers are in a paper bag,muffled,bassy and just awful.
Its just sitting here looking pretty.
The problem with the sound is it sounds really flat and dull.Its like the speakers are in a paper bag,muffled,bassy and just awful.
Its just sitting here looking pretty.
16 August 2005, 08:35 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by Power Junkie
CD is a good format if the whole process is done right from recording to pressing. The A-D's quality is most important, unfortunately Protools is the industry standard, the problem is its A-D's are crap. I use Soundscape systems, which have much better more natural sounding converters (they also don’t crash every 5 mins). Then for the mixing, I don’t like doing them on a digital desk, give me a good Amek, Neve analogue desk etc fed into some really high quality converters running at 24 bit 88.2k. this gives the mastering boys good stuff to work on then it is just a ÷2 conversion into Cda. I know 16bit 44.1k only has a resolution of 65.536 but it can sound good
)The whole A/D & D/A process is a real bone of contention - even with audiophiles, hence the reason why many CD players have stand-alone D/As etc.
I tend to use Prisms, even though they're a tad on the pricey side (especially when going multi-track!!), but they are good.
Going into a Mac/Protools (
) with Logic Pro.Nice to see you use analogue kit - I like Neve/Amek, but prefer SSL
You sound like you're doing the same type of stuff as me - feel free to gimme a PM, and we'll chat about stuff offline
Dan
17 August 2005, 05:50 PM
#14
SSL EQ Sound's a little fake (G series), It doesn’t make the same sheen as you can get with a Mr Neve design I am mainly using an Amek Media 51 (60 frame) now which Is really transparent, through M&K's, Prism converters are very good But I hate Protools, I have lost too much time with it which isn’t good when you have the Record Co hassling you to finish.
A good Album to test a system is, Art Of Noise, The Seduction of Claude Debussy
But I hate Protools, I have lost too much time with it which isn’t good when you have the Record Co hassling you to finish. A good Album to test a system is, Art Of Noise, The Seduction of Claude Debussy
17 August 2005, 06:12 PM
#15
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agreed G series is rubbish. E series, now that's a different matter
Must have been lucky with Protools - it's been rock-solid with all the sessions I've done (still prefer Logic though)
Another good album is Pink Floyd "Division Bell"
Dan
Must have been lucky with Protools - it's been rock-solid with all the sessions I've done (still prefer Logic though
)Another good album is Pink Floyd "Division Bell"
Dan
17 August 2005, 06:15 PM
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Slight thread hi-jack. 
How did you get into that industry guys? Were you musicians originally, or electronics/programming trained?
It's something I've always found interesting and was wondering what training/quals you need to work in the industry.
Ta
How did you get into that industry guys? Were you musicians originally, or electronics/programming trained?
It's something I've always found interesting and was wondering what training/quals you need to work in the industry.
Ta
17 August 2005, 06:28 PM
#17
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Been into computer programming (music programming) since I could walk. Played keys for 25 years, and actually studied Music Tech and Pro Sound & Video up to HND level.
Fell into it really (like most people - right place/right time) Left college to become teaboy at UB40's studios in Birmingham. Worked my way up (quickly, as I was **** @ making tea!) to engineer and then to producer/programmer. Produced a couple of UB40 albums. Went around the world. Worked with loads of cool people (audio industry & pop stars/bands). Had a blast.
Now am freelance producer/programmer. I still engineer alot, but also "give a little back" by teaching at a local college. Got my own studio and still work with loads of cool people.
It's a horrendous job to get into. Kiss goodbye to a social life. My average day was about 18hours - usually more. Pay starts off rubbish (if any). You get to work with loads of bands - both good and bad.
Regardless of your quals, you still have to go thru the "apprenticeship" It's moreso down to attitude and enthusiasm - I've broken many assistants who were academically sorted, but didn't have anything else to back it up!!
This is the type of mixing console I work on - not your £2500 piece of kit -
Check out Here for access to jobs - there aren't many though
Dan (www.daproductions.co.uk)
Fell into it really (like most people - right place/right time) Left college to become teaboy at UB40's studios in Birmingham. Worked my way up (quickly, as I was **** @ making tea!) to engineer and then to producer/programmer. Produced a couple of UB40 albums. Went around the world. Worked with loads of cool people (audio industry & pop stars/bands). Had a blast.
Now am freelance producer/programmer. I still engineer alot, but also "give a little back" by teaching at a local college. Got my own studio and still work with loads of cool people.
It's a horrendous job to get into. Kiss goodbye to a social life. My average day was about 18hours - usually more. Pay starts off rubbish (if any). You get to work with loads of bands - both good and bad.
Regardless of your quals, you still have to go thru the "apprenticeship"
It's moreso down to attitude and enthusiasm - I've broken many assistants who were academically sorted, but didn't have anything else to back it up!! This is the type of mixing console I work on - not your £2500 piece of kit -
Check out Here for access to jobs - there aren't many though
Dan (www.daproductions.co.uk)
Last edited by ScoobyDoo555; 17 August 2005 at 06:34 PM. Reason: edited to add piccy
17 August 2005, 06:41 PM
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Two good selections to experiment with.. Thanks guys
I do find that now I've gone into the lower premier division (?) with regards to my Sugden gear, I'm now always on the lookout for well engineered work that will test and play to my systems strengths.. Eleanor Mcevoy's 'Yola' got excellent reviews for it's quality engineering and was record of the year on one Hi Fi mag; and it was stunning..
Can any of you pro's suggest other Hi Quality 2 channel recordings that I can widen my experience with? I have a raft of Floyd in 2 chan & SACD (simply because of the re-engineered 2 channel on DSOTM) but I'm looking for other seriously good recordings of Female vocal/acoustic work.
Just seen the studio below...
I do find that now I've gone into the lower premier division (?) with regards to my Sugden gear, I'm now always on the lookout for well engineered work that will test and play to my systems strengths.. Eleanor Mcevoy's 'Yola' got excellent reviews for it's quality engineering and was record of the year on one Hi Fi mag; and it was stunning..
Can any of you pro's suggest other Hi Quality 2 channel recordings that I can widen my experience with? I have a raft of Floyd in 2 chan & SACD (simply because of the re-engineered 2 channel on DSOTM) but I'm looking for other seriously good recordings of Female vocal/acoustic work.
Just seen the studio below...
Last edited by Alan C; 17 August 2005 at 06:54 PM.
17 August 2005, 07:04 PM
#19
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A great one which I dug out the other day was the Crash Test Dummies (God shuffled his feet) - great sounding album!!
Rhian Benson - pretty good
Alanis Morrissette's new unplugged "Jagged Little Pill" is really good
Dan
- great sounding album!!Rhian Benson - pretty good
Alanis Morrissette's new unplugged "Jagged Little Pill" is really good
Dan
Last edited by ScoobyDoo555; 17 August 2005 at 07:17 PM.
17 August 2005, 07:47 PM
#20
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What monitors are you using in the studio's SD555?Are you using transducers type speakers as ive heard many studio's are now going that way.
Also have you heard Dead can dance..into the labyrinth? Excellent reference CD i reckon..
Just my 2p worth..
Also have you heard Dead can dance..into the labyrinth? Excellent reference CD i reckon..
Just my 2p worth..
17 August 2005, 09:16 PM
#21
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Sorry, the piccy was for demo purposes only - I tend to use this console, but not that studio!!!
My favourites are ATC SCM300 for main monitors, but for mixing (for domestic market), I regrettably bow down to Yamaha NS10s and my trusty old pair of JBL Control 5s, along with some Dynaudio BM15s Amp-wise, real hot potato - I like the Macrotech references..... (!)
Dan
- I tend to use this console, but not that studio!!!My favourites are ATC SCM300 for main monitors, but for mixing (for domestic market), I regrettably bow down to Yamaha NS10s and my trusty old pair of JBL Control 5s, along with some Dynaudio BM15s
Amp-wise, real hot potato - I like the Macrotech references..... (!)Dan
17 August 2005, 09:27 PM
#22
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sorry for the confusion chums, there is **** all wrong with any of the hifi, im just pissed at the lack of quality most of my cd's have! u see im into dance music in a big way and its production is KACK most of the times, although if i listen to something like U2 its sounds wonderful infact i hear sounds i never knew where in the tracks! scarily i pulled out an old vinyl of mine Joy Kitticonti - Joy Energizer and it absolutely ROCKED lmfao!!!
ps my hifi system at the mo consists of the pm17 ki, myryad mcd500 and monitor audio silver 6's unfortunately my cd player is away getting repaired at the mo
ps my hifi system at the mo consists of the pm17 ki, myryad mcd500 and monitor audio silver 6's unfortunately my cd player is away getting repaired at the mo
17 August 2005, 09:34 PM
#23
Aha dance music - say no more
Steer clear of the mainstream compilations, and you may find some good ones. Very hit and miss though, as the small labels won't be good due to teh facilities, costs etc. and the bigs labels just rush it out without taking any time to produce it properly.
Steer clear of the mainstream compilations, and you may find some good ones. Very hit and miss though, as the small labels won't be good due to teh facilities, costs etc. and the bigs labels just rush it out without taking any time to produce it properly.
17 August 2005, 10:14 PM
#24
Scoobydoo555 Is that Mega Studios in Paris? Think I recognise it. As for monitors I like the NS10’s with Quad 405 amps, Main’s Quested 212 (ATC Drivers) with ATC crossovers Amcron Amps 1200 top 1200 mid and 5000 bass I am just getting used to M&K stuff seems good so far.
I am just getting used to M&K stuff seems good so far.
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