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He was fine 12hours before. Then in the evening after tea started taking rapid short breaths through his nose (so not typical panting), he then started shivering, was sick lethargic and controlled diarrhoea when I took him outside before bed. He didn’t improve so dang vet at midnight who reassured and said to keep a close on him and let him know if he worsens.
Was up all night, with bouts of sick and diarrhoea. So called vet at 5:00am and saw them at 6:00am. Waited an hour and he gave painkillers and meds to help with stomach bloating.
He got worse, restless, then I took a delivery and came back to find him lying in his own poo and extremely lethargic. The room smelt of an acrid gas (hydrogen sulphide??) as did his breath. This was lunchtime
So called vet and rushed him round and he had to stay there and they’d ring with findings.
Had a call saying blood tests had come through and he was suffering renal failure, but it was early and treatable.
Two hours later he was dead. I’m in bits. He’s 11 years old. Fit, healthy, walked twice a day, active player. Always with us, travelled with me across europe...if the pub/restaurant/hotel didn’t accept dog, then I went somewhere that did.
The only issue he had was a breathing issue that seemed to come on after a Nobivac L4 vaccine for a breathing issue (bit like kennel cough; swallowing and wretching but with more of a hiccup than a cough ). Vet did lots of tests, including X-rays. Heart was good normal size, although very slight murmur when very stressed (hence the scan), concluded it was a bronchiole issue and prescribed a cortisol steroid, which seemed to work but did have side effects: panting, always hungry- used to a picky eater, not greedy and became out of breath more easily and his breathing whilst sleep seemed a bit laboured but nothing otherwise untoward.
Collected him last night and cleaned him up.
Now don’t know what to do. I’m booking a private cremation but I’m having that nagging feeling.
What went wrong? Is there any further test that can be done? Should I get a autopsy? Not wanting to blame, too late for that, but I want to know to learn from it for other people’s dogs.
I just want answers so I want to ring the vet but don’t know what to ask.
Sorry for venting: Not one for bleating on facebook/reddit
and Google’s being an **** and giving me nothing but coronavirus results. Furloughed..so here I am
I am sorry to hear about your dog's loss Alex
We have 'lost' a few family dogs over the last 25 years (2 of them attacked and killed by other dogs) and I can really feel for you.
Do what you feel is right for you. We've buried them in my parents garden.
When it comes to pets, I've always had a **** happens kind of attitude, so personally I wouldn't pursue the matter further, but I know many people, particularly with dogs, see their pet as an equally loved family member, so I get why you would want to investigate further. 11 years is maybe a little young to go, but its also quite a decent age for a dog, so not beyond the bounds of natural causes. In the end, you should decide what is best for your own peace of mind!
He went through a lot... found him as a pup and early last year was attacked and mauled by a dog walked on a lead by a ‘dog walker’ walking someone else’s dog, it shook him up pretty bad but he as always he bounced back. Honestly thought he’d bounce back again, think the vet did too.
Did think about burying, but kind of ruled it out: His favourite spot is above the septic tank (old non conforming style: which may need replacing with a treatment tank), rest of land maybe redeveloped so could end up in digging him back up, and of course if I moved house....
At the moment just want more answers....if he was old, or had ongoing illness it’d be easier to comprehend.
Sorry for your loss, it's always a sad time when you lose a family pet your had for many years, do what's best for you mate as been said in earlier posts, and if it gives you the answers you need then it may help, personally i wouldn't bury him in the garden be it his favourite place or not, had my rough collie 16 years before we lost him, had him cremated and he has had pride of place in my front room for the last 10 years, if i move house he comes with me.
I'm really sorry for you; it's bad enough losing an dog into old age, when they've had their time, but suddenly is far worse.
Did your vet check for CRGV ( Alabama rot)? Symptoms include sores/ lesions on pads and around mouth, renal failure follows swiftly. This can strike dogs in 24hrs or less.
My daughter is studying to be a vet, so pm if I can help.
Cortisol steroids also stress the kidneys, and are usually prescribed only when they are the lesser of two evils ie the original illness is serious enough to warrant CS. They have unpleasant side effects in elderly humans as well, eg internal bleeding .
It's hard to give advice on how to follow up, as it won't change your loss; we lost our 16 year old 3 years ago, and he has just been replaced with a rescue 2 months ago.... replaced is the wrong word, no dog is the same, and I still find myself calling the new one by the other's name.
The grief will dull, you'll look back at the old photos and happy days, time will heal, so I wouldn't chase the causes at the moment; wait a week or two, to see how you feel.
Ours was cremated, and scattered at a nearby pet cemetery, but I kind of wish he had been scattered somewhere we visit regularly, although we have memories and reminders of him daily.
Cortisol steroids also stress the kidneys, and are usually prescribed only when they are the lesser of two evils ie the original illness is serious enough to warrant CS. They have unpleasant side effects in elderly humans as well, eg internal bleeding .
It's hard to give advice on how to follow up, as it won't change your loss; we lost our 16 year old 3 years ago, and he has just been replaced with a rescue 2 months ago.... replaced is the wrong word, no dog is the same, and I still find myself calling the new one by the other's name.
The grief will dull, you'll look back at the old photos and happy days, time will heal, so I wouldn't chase the causes at the moment; wait a week or two, to see how you feel.
Ours was cremated, and scattered at a nearby pet cemetery, but I kind of wish he had been scattered somewhere we visit regularly, although we have memories and reminders of him daily.
I’m still waiting for a call from the lead vet. Did ring the receptionist to tell them not to ring after lunch as I was getting him cremated
He had a individual private cremation yesterday at a small animal crematorium run by a husband and wife that did it all while you waiting, took paw prints and let you say your goodbyes. Given the situation of either burying in ground likely to be re-dug and handing him back to the vet that uses a contractor that does mass cremations where he could be a fridge for days before being given the ashes and the paranoia they maybe lost or mixed up. Can highly recommend them https://www.rosehillpetcrem.co.uk/ the drive there and back seemed as long as driving from Birmingham to Bordeaux (same typical weather too). Still crying like child, I’ve had dogs before but not one like this one; Totally changed my view of stereotypical small dogs (for the better), thinking of rescuing one to fill the void but it is too soon and as you say the dog you lost is irreplaceable.
I think given the timeline of rapid decline I may have worked it out.
Given the tests he had a few months back there were no major issues. The bronicial issue was intermittent over the years and never major but a concern non the less when it acted up. I usually flared when going from Spain to UK and I believe maybe sudden changes in humidity and climate factors influenced it. Last time it happened was after a nobivac L4 booster...but it shouldn’t be a side effect
AFAIK
Hence the cortisol steroids after the tests suggested nothing else...but only very recently and on a minimal dose. But I didn’t like it and was looking at alternatives as it did make him more sensitive to heat which was a big concern for when I take him to Spain.
The other side affect was it made him a bit hyper when food was about.
That’s what I think has made the penny drop...he was always a slow picky eater. The cortisol changed that somewhat. He’d sometimes woof it down. Given that he was fed whilst I had tea, and it was the time after that he went downhill. I think he suffered gastric bloat (dilation) as a result of eating too much/too quick.: If the gases/bloat doesn’t dissipate and gets worse the stomach can twist...after that it’s a severe highly time critical emergency. I think if it was diagnosed and had treatment for it in the morning - possibly surgery, he could survive. But I think by lunchtime when he lost total bowel control it was too late.
The renal issue could be a herring as it wasn’t acute, but could have been a secondary issue developing due to the cortisol steroids. Maybe putting him in a weakened state to deal with the bloat issue. Total supposition though.
Have called the vet since, was told they get back to me later....
Originally Posted by hedgecutter
My daughter is studying to be a vet, so pm if I can help.
Thanks, honestly it’s appreciated. I think I’ll give it a day or so to see what the vet says if he gets back. But feel free for her to read the above and say if what I’ve put is plausible or not.
I hate this not knowing...my last two dogs died from age related issues with a decline that made the loss somewhat expected. Could say the same with deaths with family and friends (cancer, heart issues, copd, accident etc.). That helped with coping with it in a way that I could move on. This has just left me stuck in circles of grief until I know more. Can’t even go to work as a distraction!
They do become part of the family. Missing my Jasper, patterdale terrier that was part of the 'ex took everything.' Silly but even not seeing him in lockdown and taking him and kids in park is a heartache so to lose him would be a killer. Do understand the grief
Well had the phone call from the gaffer, still digesting it as it was a 40min call going over past and current notes. But the long and short of it is they don’t know what killed him
Was certain it was not bloat though.
Renal issue, as mentioned, also liver issue. On their own in the time frame wasn’t the cause but indicative of something else untoward Possibly pancreatitis, sepsis, perforated ulcer etc. In fairness he was candid enough to say they couldn’t rule it out in the short time frame of them finding his health taking a rapid decline. Rolly apparently ‘crashed’ in a matter of minutes whilst on a IV drip for fluid and antibiotics so had no time to re-evaluate what else is going on. They spent 15mins trying to revive him.
Even autopsy may not be fully conclusive, but he was as intrigued to have one for answers himself, but admits most owners don’t want one for the usual reasons.
So I guess I’ll never really know, going to be hard to accept that it was just not meant to be.
Anyone had bereavement counselling? How did it go?
Mornings are terrible. I’m normally woken at 5ish as he wants to go outside. Usually I’m in a zombie like state. He goes out, comes back in and I go back to sleep until a sensible hour.
Now at the same time I’m wide awake. It’s been a while since I actually noticed the sun rise. Something outside tripped the exterior PIR movement alert...just like he did when he pottered about.
Truly sorry for your loss Ali. I think the heightened sense of berievement is due to the fact that neither you or the vet know for sure why you lost him. In time it will become less painful, but take solace in the fact that you have given him the best life possible and that your dog will know that was the case.
I do believe that dogs are a lot more intelligent than they are given credit for. They can tell the time, even what day it is, and can connect with a human just as we humans can connect with them.
It is funny that you mention the PIR light coming on as if it was your dog triggering it.
I don't want to come across sounding mental, but only yesterday I read something that was relevant to this.
Without veering too far off topic I am not a spiritual person but experienced something a couple of weeks ago involving my late father that made me look into this sort of phenomenon.
I could go go into more detail but it's your thread. The upshot being it is thought a spirit recently passing is able to control electricity to stay in contact.
There may be a rational explanation for the sensor light but there is certainly no harm in believing that your dog is still there with you in spirit if it brings you comfort.
It is funny that you mention the PIR light coming on as if it was your dog triggering it.
I don't want to come across sounding mental, but only yesterday I read something that was relevant to this.
Without veering too far off topic I am not a spiritual person but experienced something a couple of weeks ago involving my late father that made me look into this sort of phenomenon.
I didn’t mention that the night before the override on the one floodlight turned itself on. I thought I just caught the button on the control panel when reactivating the sounder.
It’s by no mean off topic really; I’m not religious, C of E school upbringing vs. reality put rest to that. But I always wanted to believe that there is something, however more as a wishful thinking because really science has yet to fully answer (with proof) the existence of everything and sentience. So yes, call that Spiritual if we must with a huge dose of cynicism thrown in on intentionally looking for coincidences that are indicative of spirit or afterlife.
But that changed a bit three years ago; My gran was gravely ill, passed from hospital to respite back to hospital again; Not good, DNR was in place. 3:30am I was asleep and dreamt her hugging me and saying goodbye...clear as day. Then I woke up, now I rarely remember dreams so that’s odd. So I lay there in bed for just a minute or so thinking how odd that was. Then the phone rang...it was the hospital saying she had deteriorated. Actually they lied, she had died but they weren’t allowed to say that over the phone.
Meanwhile 3:30...my mum’s alarm clock went off. She can’t fathom how it managed to get set for that time. When we informed other close relatives they were already awake as well. It was hard to rationalise that as all being a coincidence.
Now I feel I must explain what exactly led me to mention what I did.
I too am not religious, same as you c of e school blah blah.
My dad passed away 3 and a half years ago. There has been a bloke knocking around for about 18 months that mum has become very involved with.
I too don't often remember my dreams. I can probably count how many I could have remembered on one hand over the last ten years.
Two weeks ago I was woken up at 4:30am having just had a conversation with my dad, warning me to watch out for this character that my mum is involved with. It was like no other dream I have had, hence why I started researching the possibility that he may have 'visited' me to give me a warning.
This is the first dream I have had that I can recall with my dad in it since he passed, but some things he said I can't fathom how my own mind would have come up with.
Well, it’s certainly something difficult to ignore when it may involve loved ones possibly getting harmed in someway. Even when there is no rational explanation for it. Hope nothing comes bad of it, but I’d personally place that dream on the same level as a gut instinct. If something doesn’t feel right, you are likely to be correct in thinking that.
To put a few corrections in though...his mum was probably one of the young dogs in that field - a black and tan short haired cross that had a pup by herself but rejected it or as she wasn’t the female Alpha meaning the others attacked him. Pretty certain found his ‘dad’ which was a dog from up the road called Rex. A proper shaggy dog who made his prime role in life to escape and chase after bitches. As such Rolly has a few half-brother and half-sisters.
Most of the Jack Russells (forgot how many...think there was five or six at one point) in the field ended up being killed when a neighbour’s Spanish Mastiff escaped and attacked them...they had been winding him up for months before...and it was a flimsy fence.
28 April 2020, 10:38 AM
Dog sudden death - what would you do
