Accident Theories?
30 April 2002, 10:37 AM
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As some of you may know, Chris had an accident in our Scooby on friday and now everything's underway with teh repairs we're desparatly trying to figure out what went wrong (I'm loosing sleep over this one guys!) Here's the story:
Any ideas of things to check? Not just to find out why it happened, but to prevent anything happening again when we get the car back. Wouldn't have liked that to happen in the middle of the motorway! 
I'd be grateful for any theories, and before it's said I trust what Chris has said and that he wasn't doing anything stupid in the car, I know the tyres/alloys are in good condition as they are cleaned and checked every week...
Ideas?
Jen
Car is UK MY98 with 17" Radius R3 Alloys and
SO2's correctly inflated and with plenty of tread (We know there's a known problem with metal valves, and we didn't have these!). So far on the way to work Chris had already been over3 roundabouts however the accident happened when he came off the fourth
roundabout into a long left hander at 40mph, accelerating to 50mph, so well
within the car's limits. Road was wet and back end appeared to have no
traction at all going round the corner and swung round, while the front
remained perfectly seated on the ground. I have driven it countless times
down the same piece of road (as fast if not faster) in the rain and never
ever experienced a loss of traction at the back before, so am quite
concerned that there could be something mechanically wrong with the car.
We also noticed that the rear driver's side tyre had come away from the rim
and was flat - definitely not like that when I set out on the journey -
which could have contributed/caused it?
SO2's correctly inflated and with plenty of tread (We know there's a known problem with metal valves, and we didn't have these!). So far on the way to work Chris had already been over3 roundabouts however the accident happened when he came off the fourth
roundabout into a long left hander at 40mph, accelerating to 50mph, so well
within the car's limits. Road was wet and back end appeared to have no
traction at all going round the corner and swung round, while the front
remained perfectly seated on the ground. I have driven it countless times
down the same piece of road (as fast if not faster) in the rain and never
ever experienced a loss of traction at the back before, so am quite
concerned that there could be something mechanically wrong with the car.
We also noticed that the rear driver's side tyre had come away from the rim
and was flat - definitely not like that when I set out on the journey -
which could have contributed/caused it?
I'd be grateful for any theories, and before it's said I trust what Chris has said and that he wasn't doing anything stupid in the car, I know the tyres/alloys are in good condition as they are cleaned and checked every week...
Ideas?
Jen
30 April 2002, 12:25 PM
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Jen,
sounds like you picked up a puncture on-route. Do you still have the old tyre so you can inspect what the cause was? Was it the offside rear?
Diesel is a maybe but I wouldn't have thought that the back end would of come round on a UK car especially as you say the front still had grip.
Edited to say I've just read the thread properly and yes it was the offside rear!
[Edited by Mo - 4/30/2002 12:27:22 PM]
sounds like you picked up a puncture on-route. Do you still have the old tyre so you can inspect what the cause was? Was it the offside rear?
Diesel is a maybe but I wouldn't have thought that the back end would of come round on a UK car especially as you say the front still had grip.
Edited to say I've just read the thread properly and yes it was the offside rear!
[Edited by Mo - 4/30/2002 12:27:22 PM]
30 April 2002, 12:29 PM
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Nothing on the road at all - police arrived afterwards without a problem as did the 100's of cars that passed as we were waiting!
It was bizarre, the back end spun out and round putting Scooby into the ditch on the left nose first, so slipping would be an idea, but as you said, I reckon the front would have been effected first with that slidding, not just the back end spinning out...
Thanks Sti! Anyone else?
Jen
It was bizarre, the back end spun out and round putting Scooby into the ditch on the left nose first, so slipping would be an idea, but as you said, I reckon the front would have been effected first with that slidding, not just the back end spinning out...
Thanks Sti! Anyone else?
Jen
30 April 2002, 12:31 PM
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Mo! Just seen your post! I guess that could be it.
It'd have to be quite a thing to go through those SO2's, but I guess it could be. I know I always try to go around things in the road...but Chris might not have noticed it...might go along tonight to have a closer look.
Do punctures usually go straight away? I guess if it was serious enough it could do...
Thanks
Jen
It'd have to be quite a thing to go through those SO2's, but I guess it could be. I know I always try to go around things in the road...but Chris might not have noticed it...might go along tonight to have a closer look.
Do punctures usually go straight away? I guess if it was serious enough it could do...
Thanks
Jen
30 April 2002, 12:39 PM
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If i was you, I would remove the tyre and send it back to the manufacturers, they can do all sorts of structure tests etc to find out if it delfated due to blow out or slow puncture etc.
My dad did this when he spun out whilst on a demo MX5 where he spun the car out for no apparant reason, the tyre was sent back to Dunlop and they concluded that the tyre wall collapsed from fatigue.....basically he had no chance and wrote this demo car off :O - but the dealer had to back down when they realised it was not his fault but the tyre failing.
Hope this helps and sorry about your news
[Edited by TBMeech - 4/30/2002 12:42:17 PM]
My dad did this when he spun out whilst on a demo MX5 where he spun the car out for no apparant reason, the tyre was sent back to Dunlop and they concluded that the tyre wall collapsed from fatigue.....basically he had no chance and wrote this demo car off :O - but the dealer had to back down when they realised it was not his fault but the tyre failing.
Hope this helps and sorry about your news
[Edited by TBMeech - 4/30/2002 12:42:17 PM]
30 April 2002, 12:48 PM
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TBMeech - Thanks, I'll ask the garage to keep the tyre so we can send it back. We were going to do this for the alloy just to check there were no problems with it, so I'll do it for both! 
First look it didn't look like there was anything in it, but I'll check that too as Mo suggested. Just hope were not too slow and they havn't chucked it yet!!
Oh, and thanks for the symapthy, I'm slowly coming out my depression
First look it didn't look like there was anything in it, but I'll check that too as Mo suggested. Just hope were not too slow and they havn't chucked it yet!!
Oh, and thanks for the symapthy, I'm slowly coming out my depression
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01 May 2002, 08:42 AM
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Has GOT to have been due to a flat. I had a similar spin in my old Corolla GT coupe, rear wheel drive.
Driving along all nicely, round a bend one way, round a bend the other way and WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.....cos Id got a puncture and the tyre went down, apparently quite quickly. Wasnt noticeable going in a straight line or round right handers, only when going sideways round lefts.
The spin pushed the tyre off the rim but that was all - I wasnt unlucky enough to find a ditch and I was going slow enough (residential area near a school ) so it was just a 130 ish degree slide.
Just my few pence. Hope its of some assistance
Driving along all nicely, round a bend one way, round a bend the other way and WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.....cos Id got a puncture and the tyre went down, apparently quite quickly. Wasnt noticeable going in a straight line or round right handers, only when going sideways round lefts.
The spin pushed the tyre off the rim but that was all - I wasnt unlucky enough to find a ditch and I was going slow enough (residential area near a school
) so it was just a 130 ish degree slide.Just my few pence. Hope its of some assistance
01 May 2002, 10:32 AM
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Jen,
I've just seen that you had S02s, this does surprise me.
I had my nearside rear blow at high speed on my way back from France. I was travelling in a straight line and the first I noticed was a massive vibration so I pulled over (after I'd filled my underwear!) and got out to look. To my surprise the tyre still 'looked' inflated however checking the tyre pressure proved otherwise, it was flat. I continused to drive a further three miles, on the flat tyre but not at speeds above 40mph, to the nearest garage where I had it changed. I then saw that it had a two inch split on the inside of the sidewall. Throughout these few miles to the garage the tyre still retained it's shape and stayed on the rim.
The puncture was my fault entirely - tosser! I won't be doing it again.
I had loaded the car with ten cases of wine and had forgot to inflate the tyres this had caused the sidewall to bulge and the inside had been rubbing on the suspension leg. At the speed I was travelling, it had caused it to blow. Very very lucky that I wasn't going round a bend at the time.
I've just seen that you had S02s, this does surprise me.
I had my nearside rear blow at high speed on my way back from France. I was travelling in a straight line and the first I noticed was a massive vibration so I pulled over (after I'd filled my underwear!) and got out to look. To my surprise the tyre still 'looked' inflated however checking the tyre pressure proved otherwise, it was flat. I continused to drive a further three miles, on the flat tyre but not at speeds above 40mph, to the nearest garage where I had it changed. I then saw that it had a two inch split on the inside of the sidewall. Throughout these few miles to the garage the tyre still retained it's shape and stayed on the rim.
The puncture was my fault entirely - tosser! I won't be doing it again.
I had loaded the car with ten cases of wine and had forgot to inflate the tyres this had caused the sidewall to bulge and the inside had been rubbing on the suspension leg. At the speed I was travelling, it had caused it to blow. Very very lucky that I wasn't going round a bend at the time.
01 May 2002, 10:58 AM
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Mo and RaZe Mental.
Thanks for the views. I reckon this has to be it, I was just under the impression a flat would have been easier to control in a 4wd car Never mind eh!
We're picking up the tyre from the garage today/tomorrow to send it off and have a good look ourselves. Just a bit annoyed as they're checked every week and still had plenty of life in them. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Oh, and just for your interest - the labour charges alone on the job are £1800!! ...I love insurance
Thanks for your time guys...
Jen
Mental.Thanks for the views. I reckon this has to be it, I was just under the impression a flat would have been easier to control in a 4wd car
Never mind eh!We're picking up the tyre from the garage today/tomorrow to send it off and have a good look ourselves. Just a bit annoyed as they're checked every week and still had plenty of life in them. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Oh, and just for your interest - the labour charges alone on the job are £1800!!
...I love insurance Thanks for your time guys...
Jen
01 May 2002, 11:41 AM
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Does sound like a problem with the tyre. Diesel spills usually cause understeer because you hit them with the fronts first.
As for being easier to control with 4WD, well, if the car was accelerating and cornering at 50mph in the wet, then the tyres were already being asked to deliver a fair amount of adhesion. So if you suddenly remove half the grip at the rear (the tyre deflates or leaves the rim), it's highly likely that the other rear tyre couldn't cope with suddenly supplying double the amount of grip (could you drive around that corner at 100mph in the wet?). Without enough grip at the rear, the car will just spin.
Chances are if you were driving in a straight line at a constant speed, it would have been easier. Just part of the joys of motoring.
As for being easier to control with 4WD, well, if the car was accelerating and cornering at 50mph in the wet, then the tyres were already being asked to deliver a fair amount of adhesion. So if you suddenly remove half the grip at the rear (the tyre deflates or leaves the rim), it's highly likely that the other rear tyre couldn't cope with suddenly supplying double the amount of grip (could you drive around that corner at 100mph in the wet?). Without enough grip at the rear, the car will just spin.
Chances are if you were driving in a straight line at a constant speed, it would have been easier. Just part of the joys of motoring.
01 May 2002, 12:16 PM
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Thanks for all the info - it does sound like the tyre was the problem and we need to find out whether it was a defect in the tyre or simply an unfortunate puncture. Looks like I'll be booking into a skid-pan course in the near future so I have a better chance of controlling the car if it happens again.
Oh and David, in response to "could you drive around that corner at 100mph in the wet?" - I'll get back to you on that one when we get the car back! Only joking Jen - I wouldn't dare!
Chris
Oh and David, in response to "could you drive around that corner at 100mph in the wet?" - I'll get back to you on that one when we get the car back!
Only joking Jen - I wouldn't dare! Chris
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