staffychance

Hi can you help my mate, 1997 UK Turbo

Car Spec
RCMS front pipe,revoultion center and rear section,550cc injectors, stage 1 fuel pump, hybrid fmic and a IHIVF23 turbo, induction kit, lightened pullies, GT Spec Header pipe and up pipe and a GEMS ECU, mapped by steve simpson, the car does Low 12's on the 1/4mile

The car was running 332.5bhp and 301lbft of torgue at TEG before the headers, up pipe and pullies were added.

He took it too scoobyclinic for a map tweek for the headers and new up pipe, It was only pulling 255bhp they said. And also said the mapping was terrible (fueling anyway) over fueling at iidle and under fueling on boost.

Now he says the car feels as fast as it did after the work was carried out.......It is fast... well compared to my STD UK Turbo, its easily more than 255bhp in my eyes.

Do you think the GEMS has a Knock Control (Limp Home Mode) on it (would have thought the clinic chap would has spotted that straight away), could this be the reason........or any other reasons you can think of. I cant see the difference between two turbo dynamic rolling roads being so great.

Anything really

Cheers Staffy

Tidgy

did you speak to them about this at the time?

Neilo

not 255 at the wheels is it?

staffychance

It was my mate i didnt go with him, he wont ask questions, he believes what the first person says, i said to ring TEG and speak to steve first, as the lad at scoobyclinic said it needs fully remapping at £500 ish.

He cant get hold of anyone at TEG today though so i said i would ask on here for some advice.

Its strange........i mean i thing i would notice if my cars all of a sudden near 100bhp down, and he said no if anything it feels faster after the headers and that were added?????????????

Tidgy

that would explain it then, if its not mapped properly then aint gonna get the power.
tbh i expect they have told him not to drive it hard till map is sorted cos if running lean then engine will go bang.

def needs looking at properly to sort it out.

by the way its very easy to alter figures on rr.

dougwrx

Cant understand why it needs fully remapping, when it has been tweaked. Im sure that if he has altered the map he would have sorted the fuel issues. Why would they do half a job????

dougwrx

I think its at the wheels too

ScuuBdoo

I think Scoobyclinic gave your friend an @the wheels power figure and TEG gave a Flywheel figure.

If you concider normal tansmission losses from 332BHP at the Flywheel then 255 at the wheels sounds about right.

staffychance

Oah right ill get him to ring and make sure but it still doesnt explain the "poor mapping"

But to be honest i cant imagine with all the parts and work gone into it that its only 255BHP, it was more than that before all the work was done as the std ECU was chipped.

They fitted the parts and rollered it before the remap and it was 280bhp the after the remap 332 bhp??????

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

lol, where's the road v's dyno thread..?

On a serious note, it does sound like WHP v fly, but why would SC say it was lean and needed a remap..???

Again, refer to thread mentioned above..?!

Tidgy

cos it was running lean perhaps?

presume it was pat who looked at the map, top guy and knows his stuf, just ask around on here. Sounds like the initial map wasn't right or somethings changed, would have thought they'd have gone throught the issues with him though?

staffychance

Harvey Smith is going to have a quick look at it on thursday to give me his views, so ill see what he says and let you guys know.

Tidgy

where'd that pic of a can of worms????

staffychance

Hi chaps.....Firstly Happy New year to all.

I Just thought i would let you know the outcome of this thread.

As my last replyto the thread, i spoke with Harvey Smith and the car was left with him for a few days for him to investigate.

Tubular GT Spec Headers had just been fitted to the car a few weeks prior, which Harvey identified straight away as possible problem due to the turbo being used and the power the car was at.

Harvey found the car to be running too rich, which would not have happened if O/E ported headers were used. He took the car to Steve Simpon Motorsport(who had previously mapped the car) for a re-map @ £200 not £550 as quoted before. They fully warmed the car and got 313.8bhp, On the original Remap print out from 01-11-2005 thE car was 332.5 bhp,so it was 18.7BHP Down on the original figure, So to put it simply the Headers were robbing the car of power.

The car was fully remapped and the best they could get was 324.6 bhp, still 8bhp down, but this was due to the Headers.

Harvey believes when scoobyclinic refered to 255 bhp this would have been an at the wheels figure.

I think my mate is going to have Harvey port a set of O/E headers and try to produce so more power working with Harvey.

I would just like to take this Opportunity to thank Harvey for all his Help,Time and Advice with this car but most of all for the work he has put into it and its because of this I would Recommend him to anyone needing some work done. As mentioned above this car is not mine, its my mates and I know he thanks Harvey too.

Thanks

Staffychance

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

so is it gonna cost another £200 after the std ported headers are on?

staffychance

The Turbo is showing signs of tiredness and a few other mods will be planned as well as the headers, i would imagine the car will have a few changes made and then yes few change will be made to the map.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

So how rich was it running in order for it to loose 20HP, and what AFR's is it running now.

staffychance

Not sure mate

Lateral Performance

iTrader: (20)

Staffychance,

Some of the information seems a little spurious at the moment.

Comparing figures, without comparing the fuelling, and boost isn't a direct comparison, especially when the two rolling road runs are a YEAR apart.

You say that Scooby Clinic said after the headers were fitted, the car ran leaner under boost, well that's exactly what you'd expect better flowing headers to do.
The headers may cost a little in spool up, but are HIGHLY unlikely to cost power.

Did Scooby Clinic do a before, and after run ?

Another observation is,
If the turbo is tired, it wouldn't be unusual for it to flow less, either because there is drag on the shaft, or wear on the compressor tips.

I would try and change things one at a time, starting with the turbo, so you can identify exactly what has the biggest effect.


Mark.

staffychance

cheers Mark

jiffthejiffmanjaffa

iTrader: (10)

I agree with the above.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

This thread has been copied to me and I will clarify what Steve has said because his technical knowledge is limited.
I have no idea what make of tubular headers were fitted to the car. I am not aware they were GT Spec and unless Steve has seen an invoice or other paperwork confirming they are the GT Spec I believe they are something else.
I did not ask to get involved in this car or this thread but was contacted by both Steve and the owner who was very concerned because he had been told his car was producing only 255 bhp and was in urgent need of a remap. Both live locally. When the 255 bhp result was given to the owner he told me he was advised the car was running weak and a complete remap in the sum of £550 had been offered for the next day. At that point I suggested to both Steve and the owner that the 255 bhp was most likely an at wheel figure. As tubular headers had been fitted I expected the car needed a remap as I believed it would be running weak, possibly dangerously so.
When I checked the car out I was surprised to find it was not weak but very rich.
A remap with Steve Simpson was arranged in the sum of £200.
A before run produced 313.8 bhp with AFRs below .7 Lambda.
The original dyno printouts from 01-11-2005 were retrieved and compared. The car was then remapped with 324.6 bhp and AFR around .78 Lambda.
There was no more power in the car and removing fuel was contrary to expectation.
On receipt, the car engine bay was covered in oil, generally in the area of the VTA BOV. For that reason I concluded the turbo was probably showing its age but I also noted the oil level was high. The car was not breathing heavily This was reported to the owner when he collected the car and I have not spoken to him since and have now knowledge of any future plans but I did say I would look at the turbo in the New Year but tubular headers would not have been my choice of modification for his spec.
Once I saw the car I remember setting up SPA guages in it more than a year ago and it may well have had a set of ported headers at that time, fitted by others and the owner was advised to retrieve the headers that were removed for the fitment of the tubular headers.