losng traction and getting out of shape...
22 April 2004, 11:59 AM
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losng traction and getting out of shape...
I went to Butser farm nr. Petersfield on monday.
its in the middle of the sticks with lovely long roads to hoon about on.
departing along a gravelly-flinty track I gave it a little bit of loud pedal.
on full boost (1.15bar) the tyres let go and I felt all "floaty", bit of a wiggle and I shat myself because it felt like she was gonna let go completely and fling me sideways spinning into the hedge.
but I didnt, I eased off a little and luckily I made it to the tarmac section a fair bit slower than I set out.
my point (eventually) is thus:
when you feel a loss of traction, whats the best course of action?
that moment when a roundabout feels a little slower than your going, the point where the wheels start to slip sideways (or so it feels)?
in my diesel astra, when the front wheels let go it used to be fun to add a little throttle and continue the spin, but I assume in a 4wd the rear wheels would just throw you off the road (80's) 911 style?
thanks and best regards
Andy...
its in the middle of the sticks with lovely long roads to hoon about on.
departing along a gravelly-flinty track I gave it a little bit of loud pedal.
on full boost (1.15bar) the tyres let go and I felt all "floaty", bit of a wiggle and I shat myself because it felt like she was gonna let go completely and fling me sideways spinning into the hedge.
but I didnt, I eased off a little and luckily I made it to the tarmac section a fair bit slower than I set out.
my point (eventually) is thus:
when you feel a loss of traction, whats the best course of action?
that moment when a roundabout feels a little slower than your going, the point where the wheels start to slip sideways (or so it feels)?
in my diesel astra, when the front wheels let go it used to be fun to add a little throttle and continue the spin, but I assume in a 4wd the rear wheels would just throw you off the road (80's) 911 style?
thanks and best regards
Andy...
22 April 2004, 02:13 PM
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22 April 2004, 03:44 PM
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aha, I kind of knew about holding power to maintain control as opposed to lifting off/braking to unsettle.
I am running F1's so that might be the case as well.
thanks
I am running F1's so that might be the case as well.
thanks
22 April 2004, 09:08 PM
#6
Sorry if you know this already Peanuts but just my thoughts.
Might be usefull for other people
It is good to anticipate loss of traction. What I mean by that is to induce it in a controled way. So always get the car balanced before shifting the weight (going into a bend) and I always go in a fraction slower than I could have and then feed down the power quickly and progresively untill I feel the fronts or rears go. I then know I have found the limit of the cars grip and can play about with it in this state by small stearing / throttle inputs.
In a FWD/AWD car it is most likely to understear so straighten the wheel to gain some longitudinal/acelerative grip into the tyres and lift of slightly to get a bit more weight transfer from the back to over the front. (Lift off overstear you want more weight over the back so the opposite is true)
As an answer to your question in general. Loss of grip is induced usually by a sudden shift of weight round the car whether braking/acelerating/cornering. The objective is to get the car back into a steady balanced state quickly. So don't do anything sudden. stay calm, straighten the wheel perhaps to get some grip at the same time don't lift off suddenly, don't boot it. get the throttle at a nice steady state. So its about calming everything down quickly.
If I have a car go on me I handle the stearing wheel and gas pedal as if they are made of glass, I get really delicate and smooth with it.
Hope this helps
Steve
Might be usefull for other people
It is good to anticipate loss of traction. What I mean by that is to induce it in a controled way. So always get the car balanced before shifting the weight (going into a bend) and I always go in a fraction slower than I could have and then feed down the power quickly and progresively untill I feel the fronts or rears go. I then know I have found the limit of the cars grip and can play about with it in this state by small stearing / throttle inputs.
In a FWD/AWD car it is most likely to understear so straighten the wheel to gain some longitudinal/acelerative grip into the tyres and lift of slightly to get a bit more weight transfer from the back to over the front. (Lift off overstear you want more weight over the back so the opposite is true)
As an answer to your question in general. Loss of grip is induced usually by a sudden shift of weight round the car whether braking/acelerating/cornering. The objective is to get the car back into a steady balanced state quickly. So don't do anything sudden. stay calm, straighten the wheel perhaps to get some grip at the same time don't lift off suddenly, don't boot it. get the throttle at a nice steady state. So its about calming everything down quickly.
If I have a car go on me I handle the stearing wheel and gas pedal as if they are made of glass, I get really delicate and smooth with it.
Hope this helps
Steve
Last edited by Steve Whitehorn; 22 April 2004 at 09:12 PM.
23 April 2004, 08:55 AM
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Not wanting to sound derogatory but there is very little you can learn from reading. You need to get out with an instructor on an airfield or somewhere like Bentwaters/MIRA. There are a few companies that are quite good, my personal fave is below 
.
http://www.cadence.uk.com
Hugh who runs Cadence can teach you all the basics in a day.
.http://www.cadence.uk.com
Hugh who runs Cadence can teach you all the basics in a day.
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23 April 2004, 10:56 AM
#8
Peanuts
I tend to agree with billy. The only real way to gain that kind of control, is to develop a total control and understanding of the car. It's unfortunately not possible to simply add to a list of tricks that will get you out of certain situations, each situation is slightly different, no matter how similar it may appear.
The very best teacher is yourself, and practice, but you need someone skilled enough to point you in the right direction first.
I might also suggest Don Palmer who has a great ability to help you to find the answers yourself rather than simply telling you what to do.. that way, you go away with ownership of the knowledge rather than feeling that someone has simply driven the car round whilst you happened to be in control.
All the best
Simon
I tend to agree with billy. The only real way to gain that kind of control, is to develop a total control and understanding of the car. It's unfortunately not possible to simply add to a list of tricks that will get you out of certain situations, each situation is slightly different, no matter how similar it may appear.
The very best teacher is yourself, and practice, but you need someone skilled enough to point you in the right direction first.
I might also suggest Don Palmer who has a great ability to help you to find the answers yourself rather than simply telling you what to do.. that way, you go away with ownership of the knowledge rather than feeling that someone has simply driven the car round whilst you happened to be in control.
All the best
Simon
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