JonathanC

Hi All

Having had my scoob for 7 months I feel it is time for more power. The problems I have are:

1 Money
2 Warranty
3 Don't want the car to appear modded.

Obvious answer is £1600 for a PPP. However I was wondering what I could expect from just getting the ECU ecuteked. I believe the PPP should give about 250bhp ish on an MY01, any views what can be achieved by Ecutek for an otherwise standard car?

Apologies if this appears to be daft, still a newbie so have much to learn!

Jonathan

Daz WRX

You could get a PPP backbox and decat sections off someone on here second hand then have ECUTEK map which will be better than the PPP or just a Tek3 map, plus you have the option to remap when more mods are added., invalidate warranty but hard to notice its there.

Daz.

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Hmm something that I was looking at with ther wrx 04 - dont want warranty issues and maybe servicing questions (some Scoob dealers are touchy if yoiu start doing blatant mods - like a decat - that would also make the car run lean - so could be dangerous)

PPP - I wouldnt go that way - most people who have dont reaklly like and chnage it later on.....

Ecutek is the obvious choice as 'no-one' can tell its been done (not even the dealer) so if they dont know then the warranty would still be valid. Its a proper remap unlike the bolt on PPP......... So you will get more power, in all gears than a PPP and its cheaper than a PPP

The good thing is no-one knows its on, especially as you have said you dont want it to appear modded which an exhaust would give that - my wife wants the car to be as standard as possible - so she wont mind an ecutek!!

(ps I also have a 400+ sti5)

Nick Wadeson

That's fraud......Oh and yes, IM check ALL engine failures on turbocharged cars and they CAN tell if the ECU has been remapped!


The early versions of the 01/02MY PPP's included a 'piggy back' ECU board installed within the main ECU, ALL PPP's fitted now are a complete re-map.


I think that you'll find most people are very happy with the PPP and that most people do not upgrade further (though I agree many do once the warranty has expired).

Thanks, Nick.

RON

I was browsing the Subaru-usa site the other day, they actually quote ecutek, and not the likes of ppp, so it would seem that in the staes the equivalent is the ecutek, must be an aproved option over there then eh??

Daz WRX

They just use ECUTEK software to load the map, dealers just load a pre defined map (i think)whereas the Tek3 would involve a custom map specifically for your car and your mods, thus making it superior.

Simon Lines

Hi Guys

Subaru of USA do not sell any performance parts at all, from Prodrive or anyone else (they just offer a muffler - which carries no warranty...)

Prodrive in the USA offer PPP's much like we do to Subaru UK, unlike here, we offer 3 levels in the USA but again, none are sold with dealer warranty.

The PPP in the UK removes one cat (there are 3 on a WRX) if you got a custom calibration and removed more cats (or all cats) you will, of course, get more power than from the PPP! It is not really fair to compare a custom job to the PPP unless the mechanical specification is identical as the mechanical parts used (i.e. how many cats etc) have such a big effect.

One of the nice things about the PPP in the UK is that your warranty is unaffected, if you do not care about your warranty there are (of course) other ways to go. I would not condone fraud and I am afraid it is incorrect to say that it's not possible to tell if a car has been "re-flashed" and as Nick as said, Subaru (quite rightly in my opinion) check any car that's failed.

Cheers

Simon

David_Wallis

well said simon, it would be pretty easy to tell when they fit the new engine, go out for a test run and it starts making 17+ psi boost and wierd solenoid duty cycles..

David

JonathanC

One of the other nice things of the PPP (for Subrau UK) is that it costs £1600.
As this is sold in the USA for the equivalent of £686 this does seem a rip off. I know this exlcudes fitting but even Subaru dealers can't charge nearly £1000 to fit it!! If the UK prices were similar to the US one I might not be asking question!

Also i believe a TEK 3 is a remap based on your car, not a generic one included in the PPP.

What gains could I expect from an Ecutek remap with no other mods, would it be worth it. I know I am not going to get big power gains but having looked thorugh US sites people like Cobbs are claming +40bhp with a reflash using their accessport technology using 93octane fuel! Not expecting this but wonder what could be achieved so I can see if it is worth it on a bhp/£ basis.

Thanks for all the input guys,

Jonathan

JonathanC

Anyone?

scooby L

To get a real noticable power increase (30+) you have to increase the breathing capasity of the engine/turbo mate.

By just having the car re-mapped with standard exhaust/filters you may run the risk of causing major problems. ie: if you allow the ecu to boost more pressure without having somewhere for those xtra gasses to go things are going to choke up, and may cause a serious breakdown.

My advice is to bite the bullet if you want to go down the re-map route, and have the job done properly, by the guys who have tried & tested their packages.

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Disagree to an extent with the last post

True you would need to sort out the Exhaust (i.e. remove the Cats that cause the backpressure and hence power loss) and maybe put on a better breathing filter

But for only 30+bhp you can get this with just the ecutek..... by optimising the map - leaning out the excessive fuelling, especially at the top end.... but also throughout the rev range..... sure you reduce the safety limit - but this would also be the case with a PPP

I personally think that the PPP at £1600 is robbery - sure you retain your warranty..... but at a price - its just excessive profit - and you get a suboptimal map - the PPP cant in anyway compete with a map that is done specifically for the car......

Re IM looking at the failures - I have nothing but contempt for these people and the whole UK dealer network - if they look at warranty failures then good for them - maybe its the only thing that they do right

Re the fraud angle - like I give a ****..................... Having owned Scoobs for a number of years I couldnt personally give a monkey's about the warranty really - its pretty worthless anyway the way the main delaer network treats its customers these days.......

In any case I am not expecting an engine failure - if its properly mapped and I use appropriate fuel/boosters then the event of a failure would be rare.........

Most people are comfortable with a PPP because they dont know any better - they dont access this site and pay over the odds just so that they can retain that warranty - sure its certainly a nice thing to have and gives piece of mind - its all about peoples attitudes to risk - I address the risk by chosing an appropriate mapper and get good performance with value for money

keevster

iTrader: (1)

Agree with your comments totally mate. I bought an import WRX, its 6 months old, and i've done the above, full decat, tek3 remap. Personally i think its quicker than the PPP. As you said, its a risk, but after the trouble i've had with warranties in the past, screw them, i'll take the risk.

As for dealers detecting the remap. I have a switchable programme, which means i can drop the boost to standard. So any dealership driving the car would only see normal boost levels, and be none the wiser?


Paul

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

I dont think theres much chance of the dealer actually noticing if a car has been tek'd - even if it had I dont think they would care

The comment that was made was based on engine failures - i.e. if you'd had an engine failure then yes maybe they would look at the map from a warranty claim perspective

I wouldnt though expect someone to switch the map just because they were opting for a oil/filter service lets say.......... then again I've had an import for nearly 5 yrs and there aint no-way thats going anywhere near a UK Main dealer for any servicing - unless I wanted shoddy service, using inferior products (read crap oil) at a 'price'.............

However in IM's/the dealers defence most others are just the same from experience and they all have pretty appalling service....... having owned an Audi Turbo company car I just had to count the number of additional bashes it got every time it came out of the dealers after a service...... Dovercourt in Bristol......

GREGGYG

iTrader: (2)

Hi Fangoria, I like your comments, maybe you can give me an opinion on this: I have a MY03 PPP WRX, and I would like to make it a bit more special. Ive had several conversations with TSL motorsport who suggest, after lengthy discussions, that I should have my ECU remapped for my specific car, fit a sports cat downpipe and a deristricted up pipe. These mods comply fully with UK emission laws. Their warranty on these parts is for LIFE. (The exhaust parts are stainless steel, hand made) I thought Scoobs were one of the most reliable cars on the road, which, if they are, then one would be VERY unlucky to have a major failure, and having to have a warranty claim! I should have around 300lb torque and 300 bhp with these mods, and far superior driveability! But I can't find anyone here who has had these mods!

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Greg

If you have an MY03 wrx then you have the woefully underpowered TD04 Turbo

The figures of 300/300 depend very much on whose RR you go on. I would be very suprised if you could get this sort of power by retaining the turbo as many say it can only cope with 280bhp tops anyway...... (course at Well Lane that would be 310bhp!!)

The Mods they mention seem reasonable, however if you are going to fit a derestricted up-pipe and a new downpipe then you may as well go the whole way....... If you have a sports Cat downpipe you will still have a restriction in the exhaust breathing (I tried it on an sti5 with a BPM sports cat and it was still restricting my power)

If you want the flexibility when it comes to MOT's then I believe that Hayward and Scott do a two piece downpipe - in 2 bits so you can add back the second piece (with the cats at a later date) - i.e. a Cat replacement pipe

If you cant be bothered with this - you can have an all in one downpipe - but you ideally need a Lamda Boss at the bottom of the downpipe putting in as the lamda sensor is at the bottom of the engine -

Roger Clark Motorsport do this sort of thing all the time (they use exhausts from Janspeed) or you could speak to Hayward and Scott about it. Re the up-pipe you could speak to H&S again I guess

Re warranty - these lifetime warranty's are usually with the original purchaser of the parts rather than specific to the products! - but these sort of parts you would'nt expect to go wrong either

If you opted for what you mention:

Ecutek
Backbox (Prodrive)
Sports cat downpipe (better to go the whole hog and get a fully flowing - no cats pipe!)
filter (you should junk the filter in favour of an sti panel filter ( do a search))
decatted up-pipe

I would be very surprised if you got 300/300

I'm thinking maybe that the Turbo could be a restricting factor here - but I'm not sure

Its definately a step in the right direction to go for an ecutek.... you will notice the difference immediately. I have been in several cars with PPP and have driven them - and my comments have been 'you sure you have a PPP!'.....

There are others you can speak to like BRD - Bob Rawle, or Extreme Scoobies use Pat Hebborn I believe...... you will find that their comments should be informative - dont just speak to one tuning company but several - that way you will get a truly unbiased opinion and realise that opting for the PPP may not have been the best route (although for some its fine!!)

Butty

iTrader: (2)

As well as the warranty issue, PPP is the only option that many can take as thier car is either a company car, leased or on HP.
In all of those cases, the car is not owned by the driver and so any modding has or should be with the consent of the legal owner. They won't be best pleased when they get to hear that their car has needed a new bottom end because of unauthorised mods.
PPP offers a package that is seen as a tick option when buying from new that will be acceptable to the legal owner.

As for the cost of PPP, I assume that 40-50% is the mark-up by IM after cost of parts, fitting and some form of insurance premium that Prodrive take out.

IMHO, if you don't truly "own" the car then get it fitted when new. If you are the outright owner and its new then its just the value you place on the warranty and judge for yourself.
If the car is outside the first 3 years warranty then PPP doesn't make financial sense - go for something else.

Nick

JIM THEO

GreggyG if/when you decide to sell your PPP ECU I am interested for an exchange + money so you'll have a WRX03 ECU available for your mapping!
JIM

chris singleton

If anyone is interested I have a PPP ecu of a MY01 bugeye for exchange here

Cheers

Chris

JonathanC

Anyway, getting back on topic

From the repsonse I guess the only route to be sure is to improve breathing - possibly using a sports cat downpipe (as I can't be arsed to change every MOT) and removing the centre CAT.
I guess I could have predicted that result!! Just me trying to do it on the cheap - I should know better .

Thanks for your replies. 6 months of warranty left so I've got time to save up!!

AvalancheS8

Many people find that the car will successfully go through the MOT with a de-cat downpipe and just the cat in the centre section. The centre section is a 30 minute, 4 bolts job to re-fit yourself before the MOT and that would allow you to run a full de-cat the rest of the time and just put back your std centre cat section for the MOT. This would save the cost (substantial) of the sports cat in the DP and allow you to get the much cheaper de-cat DP. That would be doing it on the cheap, the only draw back being less than an hour of easy spanner work to do once a year.

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Jeez

I think I must have been lucky then as I passed the last 2 MOT's with no Cats at all in my exhaust...

Re not being the legal owner.... I may have superchipped my previous company car................................ naughty, naughty me...........