P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Right couple of things

Schematic Wiring diagram for the system i have

The red and green wire from the amplifier that goes to the injector wires, can someone confirm firstly, the red wire which one of the ecu pins on a MY00 should i connect it to. Then secondly, same for the green wire.

I have had the system kind of working, but got some stange results, ie no water (whilst pointing at windscreen to test), and a significant loss of power.

Help

Any ideas

Steven

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Well getting there i think.

Attempt 1
Red to p9 of B134 (injector ground)
Green to p32 of B134 (injector 2)

Result, **** all, zip, didly squat. So obviously wrong

Attempt 2
Red to p32 of B134 (injector 2)
Green to p9 of B134 (injector ground)

Result, lights but no spray, and loss of power when kicks in. so something still wrong

Attempt 3 will be...
Red to p9 of B136 (control unit power supply)
Green to p32 of B134 (injector 2)

Result.... wait and see, will try tonight, hopefully.

The latter comes about from emailing Aquamist, who have been very helpfull

Steven

Andy.F

Get David to do it

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

He did attempt 1, whilst i watched and did other bits. Used some fancy electric thing that showed waved pulses

Steven

bwhinnen

Looking at my diagram for the Wiring on a Turbo LHD model I get the earth (-) should be P8 or P9 (they look connected to each other) on B136. And driver (+) for injector 2 is P32 on B134.

So attempt three looks good to me.

Cheers
Brett

David_Wallis

had a scope meter on it to check injector pulse..



David

bwhinnen

Actually funny you should mention it, the wiring diagram points back to P8, B136 but the I/O signal listing from my V5 link manual (MY99 and MY00) says injector ground is P9 B134...

Very strange!

Brett

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Brett, thats exactly what we did, looking at the link, it suggested to us to use p9 of B134, but, per richard of Aquamist it should be p8 or p9 of B136.

As David says, scope meter was used on p32 and p9 of B134 and the wave was seen, that could be down to david having a meag hangover, and me relying on him interpreting a scope meter thingy me doo da

My fault, as i read the link manual

Steven

john banks

This method would inject more water at high RPM than in the midrange. How does this affect top end power? ERL's sample map has the injection rate reducing at the top end, so the water to fuel ratio will be quite a bit lower than following the injector duty cycle. If using a 1s system the rate would be flat once the pressure switch was activated.

So the method shown is giving the most water at the top, followed by 1s, followed by the fully mappable system.

Which is best?

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Sorry John, not quite with you there.

Where did you get the map from? any link.

Way i understand it is, as the pulses increase, so does the WI?

Steven

john banks

1s: constant water delivery rate once activated by pressure switch, so the proportion of water per unit air/fuel charge decreases with RPM.

2d: water delivery rate varies with injector pulse duty cycle, so the proportion of water per unit air/fuel charge slowly increases with RPM as the mixtures get richer.

2s: Fully mappable. "Water should be mapped to give maximum injection rate at peak torque not peak power."



Since you have a FMIC, your main reason for fitting is detonation control. According to Aquamist, water should be mapped to give maximum injection rate at peak torque not peak power.

Obviously fully mappable allows you to adjust it all. 1s gives a constant rate, but decreasing proportion from peak torque to peak power. Looks like 2s aims to reduce the rate from peak torque to peak power, and therefore dramatically reduce the proportion. 2d looks to increase the rate with injector usage, which will mean the proportion of water will increase slightly from peak torque to peak power as the mixture of most fuel maps richens during this range.

I just wondered whether 1s might be a better choice than 2d, clearly ECU controlled or 2s is the best.

I don't know the answer, just working from information I have, and trying to decide what to do with mine.

If you wanted a system controlled by one variable, how about coming back to manifold pressure and running the water solenoid duty cycle increasing from just on at 5 PSI to full on at 25 PSI say? This way there would be the control you get with the injector ghosting system (smoothness and progressiveness), and as there would be more air and fuel charge with increasing RPM the proportion of water would gradually subside as per the sample map, more so if you taper the boost. A trigger could come off a 3 bar map sensor to say activate the water at 5% duty cycle at 3.0V, increasing to maximum duty cycle at 5.0V? Would not need to be mapped and would put the water where the fully mappable system does. Could the 2d system do this?

[Edited by john banks - 6/6/2003 4:37:56 PM]

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Thought i was with it then John, until you edited and put the final paragrah in

I will see how it goes like this at 1st, should be sufficient for what i need.

Steven

john banks

Sorry just thinking aloud on the last one. I've done a little spreadsheet - the rates and the proportions are arbitary numbers, just shows the shapes of the graphs of the two setups.


http://www.johnbanks.dsl.pipex.com/WIrates.xls

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Woosh....

sorry its late and well ermmm, i give up

bwhinnen

I believe I get what you are saying, (if I can read it right that is)...

Why use the 2d system which will inject more water in as the fuel injector duty cycle rises. We all know that you generally hit the highest duty cylces up the top near peak power, generally speaking this is not when you need the WI the most (I hope).

The 1s system would hit a preset pressure and then just throw a set amount of water through, so would give adequate protection through the peak torque area's but also still have too much water flow during peak power.

Not sure on how the 2s system works.

But reading (I think it was your last paragraph) if you had it worked as a proportion / ratio of MAP then you could end up with a nice curve, having less pressure from the system / less flow at lower MAP and then rising as MAP rises to cover the midrange where det is more likely to occur (high VE and generally higher boost) and then taper off with MAP (if you do taper off that is) towards the high end of the RPM range.

Wouldn't that work similar to the Fuel regulator that raises fuel pressure as MAP increases to keep adequate fuel delivery?

Just some rambling thoughts, the whole WI has me intrigued (sp?).

Cheers
Brett

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Well got it working last night, not had time to do so for a while due to house.

I have not touched the map yet, and the WI is kicking at about 1.05 on the defi's, so guess about 15psi.

Driving in to work this morning, felt much better than yesterday and monday, seemed to have more feeling, which it has lost due to the current heat. Will see how it performs this afternoon when it will be hot.

Steven

David_Wallis

its gonna rain this afternoon..

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

damn it, it will still be hot though

David_Wallis

looks ok so far for your drive home..

Im off soon to help unload box.. so will fit it tonight

David