Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Cat

I have different road/track tyres, though my current roadies might soon be staying on for track. I had a 1/4 day @ Donno & used them there, but went gently & they'd done a few laps @ Bedford whilst I was getting slicks on the spare rims. But essentially, the idea is to keep the two separate.

Downside is that I've got 2 spare sets of wheels & 4 sets of tyres (road/slick) that all have to go up & down into the garage roof + they need changing & swapping around depending on the track/conditions...

Ho-hum

DaveW

Caronte,

Sorry I should have put 'turn IN on a neutral throttle'. Then you can do as you please in the corner, before, at, or after the apex.

DaveW

john banks

I'm puzzled too. Have Prodrive settings on MY00 and now Toyos on OEM wheels. I am a bit of a wuss when it comes to corners. Probably need to go on an wet airfield - but not a track as if I lost it there would not be enough run off!

I only ever get understeer on slow really wet roundabouts - if I have put the power on too early as I never really go in too fast (cos I'm a wuss). If I get understeer I really try not to bottle it and just keep the power on and wait for the diffs to sort it all out. After a short slide of the front end this happens and off we go.

But there is a lot of conflicting stuff about slip angles. I am not too concerned about oversteer on my car. What I want to be able to do is sort the thing out if I understeer too much. Some say take OFF the steering lock to reduce the slip angle then reapply the steering. Others seem to be inducing the start of lift off oversteer. Others seem to turn in more which to me sounds like it would only make the understeer worse. Others press the clutch.

I still have no idea. Need to try it myself in safe environment I think.

To give you an idea of how crap I am, I can give it monster on the straight (with 17PSI decatted Prodrive car), but then I really slow it for the corners, often braking too much and turning in when the car is unsettled. I need to smoothen it up and get my braking done with earlier. But if I decide I will go in a bit quicker I then see the corner looming and hang onto the brakes a bit longer and harder and end up unsettling the car on the entry.

On a recent run in Scotland, I was sometimes keeping up with std UK Scoobs despite 40-50bhp extra and good brakes - which were smoking (no one else's were). Any hints/ideas welcome.

babber

John,

Do you change down the box getting the engine to help with the braking? I do, saves the brakes too Helps me balance the car as well.

The car needs to be balanced as your turning in, the power needs to be increased, not maintained, turn in more. If the car understeer further, left off slightly, then back on the power. Correcting the steering, as the back comes around on you. Steering the rear tyres with the throttle. Works for me.... Four wheel power slide

You need to practise on a wet airfield or something!! I have done a few Jonathon Palmer driving days, two of them in the wet. The instructors are fantastic, and you come away with completely different driving techniques and confidence. First one I did, I drove a Sti4 with bold tyres in the wet. Couldn't believe the grip. The instructor said, "fancy going sideways", "yep I replied" he flicked the steering and we were flat out sideways in a four-wheel power slide. Bloody Lovely.

Next time I come to Edinburgh I'll show you. Once you have the confidence you'll be sideways all the time.

Cheers Phill C

john banks

Yeah, I think you'll need to show me. As you are braking for a corner when do you change down - I don't want to use my clutch as a brake pad if you know what I mean?

I tend to brake in the last gear I was accelerating in, then come off the brakes and change down to a gear that will be suitable for powering out of the corner, and try to smoothly blip the throttle as the clutch is coming back out to make it smooth - hopefully then the car is settled before going into the corner if I've done it all in time. But I am still very slow indeed. I will look into what can be done at crail as I here there is a wide run off there...

catflap

IVE GOT IT


LOOK OUT


HERE I COME




THERE I GO



WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA



LOL i iz a sidewayz god well 2-3 meters anyway.

ARe you sitting comfatable children? then ill begin

(make all the coments you can about improving on this movement)

Ok wizz up to roundabout (all within legal limits)start turning in then at the given point you want to slide, give a little blip of accelior, and then come off the accelirator while turning in a little more. HAY PRESTO SIDEWAYS.

Got the hang of flooring it as it drifts to make a nice sweeping ark out of the roundabout




For all those learning (like myself) play safe, i had a scair on a abandand car park that would have crashed me on the road.

I finde the attitude of, well i could have taken that corner a little faster, better than the attitude of, i cant take this corner this fast (BANG)

Rikki 95WRX

Catflap - is this in the dry?

I have had the rear out (the car's rear) on some roundabouts in the wet but havent had the bottle to try it in the dry on public roads.

[Edited by Rikki 95WRX - 20/11/2001 17:26:35]

catflap

Yeh in the dry, its pretty cool.

On the flip side i only ever got my back end out once, and that was only a little, i acctualy find it easer to get the car to go sideways, must be my driving style or something.

Its geting to the stage now that providing im moving brisk( 30-40) around a roundabout or corner at any stage i can start going sideways (sometimes a little some times a lot) my co driver (dude next door who keeps driving around with me) loves it, he waits till we are on a roundabout and shouts SIDEWAYS and its instant sideways

catflap

Yeh in the dry, its pretty cool.

On the flip side i only ever got my back end out once, and that was only a little, i acctualy find it easer to get the car to go sideways, must be my driving style or something.

Its geting to the stage now that providing im moving brisk( 30-40) around a roundabout or corner at any stage i can start going sideways (sometimes a little some times a lot) my co driver (dude next door who keeps driving around with me) loves it, he waits till we are on a roundabout and shouts SIDEWAYS and its instant sideways

catflap

Hay this room has an echo

Rikki 95WRX

Well - by the time my back end is out and I have counter steered in to it - I guess you could call that going sideways - or are you talking about something different?

catflap

yeh sounds like your off a little lateral there

I do it a little different.

Turn in hard, big powwer on, then lift off and come off power, and then back on, yo umay need a little opposit stear to keep it sideways but im only talking a few degrees, and hay presto it just drifts and drifts and drifts

You anywhere neer stoke? ill show you LOL

IanWatson

Catflap - your first impressions on the handling of the Scoob were similar to mine when I got the car earlier this year (MY99, no suspension mods and OEM tyres).
After years of RWD driving (from a Chevette to an e30 325i) and a lifelong fascination with going sideways in anything I've ever sat on/in I found the power-induced understeer a real pain, and wondered how this car could be the same one I’d read about in so many Evo articles!

After a bit of practise I now feel comfortable stepping the back out or drifting the car in the wet or dry, not only that I'm seem to be able to push on a lot more without losing traction either at the back or the front if I want to be tidy.

Catflap, you mention coming off the power briefly to induce lift-off oversteer, but I've found it's just as easy (and possibly more controllable) to do it without coming off the power.

My problems were braking too early and getting back on the power too soon and too hard - probably due to my lack of experience with AWD cars.

I think all I'm doing now is braking later and (this seems to be key!) carrying the braking fractionally into the turn which seems to lighten the back end slightly, I feed the power in quickly but gradually and then nail it out of the bend with a bit of opposite lock when the back steps out - if any understeer occurs at all, the diff sorts it out almost immediately if you keep your bottle and don't lift.

I'm deffo no SDB and I've always heard that braking should happen in a straight line, but this seems to work for me!! The front end seems far better glued to the road on turn-in whether or not I decide to go overboard on the power coming out of the bend for sideways fun.

Rikki 95WRX

I've got to get me on a 4wd handling day.

I haven't got the bottle to try any of this on the road in case I screw it up and/or get seen by our friends in blue.

Kosy

iTrader: (2)

If i was u guys i would try the "hard braking when turning" approach mentioned above.

In my old Sunny i would go into a turn fast, brake and turn at the same time and then the car would go sideways.

Rikki 95WRX

Kosy - i think you are right. I am a bit worried of losing the back end though. Maybe I could do it progressively?

catflap

Same here

Progreshion is key, start small, then build up.

Yeh the on breakls to lighten the tail is the most effective way to get the tail out, i just aint able to doit YET. this ill keep trying.

Ive been playing with alot of left foot breaking, and seem to have almost the same degree of controle with my left foot as i do with my right. When im happy that im in controle of the breaking with my left foot, ill be trying a little left foot tail out.

I did try it once, in an abandand carpark, only to find that i just slid forward.... NOT GOOD FOR THE ROAD lol.

Presume im going to slow? what kind of speeds we talking about here? or that i tund into hard( ithink this was the major problem)

Ill be back up the car park late at night next week, to get some small tail out around the cones....may the force be with me



GROUP BUY ON 4 WD driving days ??? now ther is an idea, go on someone arainge it for a sunday, ill join in