Cant get no oversteer
09 November 2001, 07:03 PM
#31
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have you ever raced in Karts? they are a good example of oversteer (or if you prefer slide) without losing traction. I know it's a very narrow difference but that's seconds on track.
By the way I already race with clio gr.n
By the way I already race with clio gr.n
09 November 2001, 07:19 PM
#32
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HI caronte
good point about karts and you do have agood point about being on the limit and loss of traction.but the point i am trying to make it is a rally car and if you dont give it a bit of oversteer it does seriously understeer and we dont want that because it means we get past by clios . the last time i seen clios raceing there rear ends were slightly sliding out so even you are guilty of it so come on everyone and stop slagging me for doing sliders
yours ssubaru
good point about karts and you do have agood point about being on the limit and loss of traction.but the point i am trying to make it is a rally car and if you dont give it a bit of oversteer it does seriously understeer and we dont want that because it means we get past by clios . the last time i seen clios raceing there rear ends were slightly sliding out so even you are guilty of it so come on everyone and stop slagging me for doing sliders
yours ssubaru
10 November 2001, 12:32 PM
#33
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Sone nice points,
Firstly, oversteer and sideways sliding can be a bit naughty on roads, this si why i was disapointed with the lack of grip. The car naturaly waned to loose grip i must say THE CAR HANDLES PATHETIC. Sliding sidewas, is not a fast method of driving, is dam fun though, but not what i want next time a drive my car at 50 mph through a open country lane. I have no confidence in teh car`s ability to old the road, and as such i think ill need to driving training, ill be geting my self on teh dricving school mentiond above after Xmas.
Maybe im dissaponted as im making a direct comparison between cars, and the lada i once ownd would grip as well (around a small roundabout at 30 mph) if anything it would be easer to correct, This i know cant be right, so it must be my driving. BACK TO SCHOOL FOR ME. or bin for scooby
Firstly, oversteer and sideways sliding can be a bit naughty on roads, this si why i was disapointed with the lack of grip. The car naturaly waned to loose grip i must say THE CAR HANDLES PATHETIC. Sliding sidewas, is not a fast method of driving, is dam fun though, but not what i want next time a drive my car at 50 mph through a open country lane. I have no confidence in teh car`s ability to old the road, and as such i think ill need to driving training, ill be geting my self on teh dricving school mentiond above after Xmas.
Maybe im dissaponted as im making a direct comparison between cars, and the lada i once ownd would grip as well (around a small roundabout at 30 mph) if anything it would be easer to correct, This i know cant be right, so it must be my driving. BACK TO SCHOOL FOR ME. or bin for scooby
10 November 2001, 08:25 PM
#35
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That could be an option 
well not yet anyway, i only had it a few months, been, wanting one for years and finaly save up to afford it and all i can say is DOH!!!!! yeas of saving i aint imprezad (get it imprezad? no? um ok...)
Granted it a standard car, but when all the mags i read state how wonderfull it is and how grippy it was , did they forget to mention the bit about AFTER YOU MOD IT FOR 2000 SQUIDS?
And dont get me going in the stone chips? 12000 car made of tin foil? Mr subaru yo ugot a lot to answer for?
Yeh well we dont buy subarus for looks and cosmetics we buy them to drive, i here you say, i agree. but at this rate after the 4 years i intend to keep the car, there will be verry little blue left on it, just 1 big stone chip car.
OOOOOOO tie dye subaru very 60`s
well not yet anyway, i only had it a few months, been, wanting one for years and finaly save up to afford it and all i can say is DOH!!!!! yeas of saving i aint imprezad (get it imprezad? no? um ok...)Granted it a standard car, but when all the mags i read state how wonderfull it is and how grippy it was , did they forget to mention the bit about AFTER YOU MOD IT FOR 2000 SQUIDS?
And dont get me going in the stone chips? 12000 car made of tin foil? Mr subaru yo ugot a lot to answer for?
Yeh well we dont buy subarus for looks and cosmetics we buy them to drive, i here you say, i agree. but at this rate after the 4 years i intend to keep the car, there will be verry little blue left on it, just 1 big stone chip car.
OOOOOOO tie dye subaru very 60`s
11 November 2001, 12:23 PM
#37
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Finaly got drif last night, whoooot whoot.
Very sad, 2 am in abandand industrial estate (little wet) drove it around some of the roundabouts, at 30-40, and by waiting for the dredded understeer to show its smelly head, lift off a fraction and steer streight, it seems to like drifting sideways, then hard on the gas to go forwards.
Does this sound right for sideways to you lot? it works, but not going to have chance to try it at speed untill i get to a track.
Very sad, 2 am in abandand industrial estate (little wet) drove it around some of the roundabouts, at 30-40, and by waiting for the dredded understeer to show its smelly head, lift off a fraction and steer streight, it seems to like drifting sideways, then hard on the gas to go forwards.
Does this sound right for sideways to you lot? it works, but not going to have chance to try it at speed untill i get to a track.
11 November 2001, 01:16 PM
#38
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Hi
good one cat flap keep on trying takes alot of practice and sam why are you buying a evo 7 if the subaru had never been passed at knockhill i remember your car blowing away all evos so why buy a slower car, is it be cause that silver subaru passed you out of the hairpin at the hot marques night a few weeks before you got your intrcooler fitted remember now
ssubaru
good one cat flap keep on trying takes alot of practice and sam why are you buying a evo 7 if the subaru had never been passed at knockhill i remember your car blowing away all evos so why buy a slower car, is it be cause that silver subaru passed you out of the hairpin at the hot marques night a few weeks before you got your intrcooler fitted remember now
ssubaru
11 November 2001, 03:58 PM
#39
DO NOT DO THIS ON A ROAD WITHOUT PRACTICE 
One of the things about 4wd & understeer is that you can DRIVE THROUGH IT
What I mean is...
At your 20/30/40 whatever, approach your turn & when you start to turn in & feel the u/steer coming on - BOOT IT
Somehow (don't ask me) the front end loosing traction means the power comes off & goes to the rear, which in turn allows steering to be regained whilst at the same time transfering the power to the rears. Result is that after an initial scrabble, you come stonking out the corner
Amazingly, this technique works, but is NOT to be recommended to anyone that is going to bottle it mid corner (lift-off o/steer) or until you've had a wee bit of practice.
Posted about this a long time ago & 1st reply was SdB who scientifically disected it. It's not efficient (in terms of going round corners) but it can be fun & is a definate bottle job
Usual disclaimers apply but I did it (on purpose - previous 4wd experience) 2 weeks after picking up PTMW! from the dealer, at a 90 right with a brick wall in front & ShellGrip NP Wondered why afterwards 
You have been warned!
One of the things about 4wd & understeer is that you can DRIVE THROUGH IT
What I mean is...
At your 20/30/40 whatever, approach your turn & when you start to turn in & feel the u/steer coming on - BOOT IT
Somehow (don't ask me) the front end loosing traction means the power comes off & goes to the rear, which in turn allows steering to be regained whilst at the same time transfering the power to the rears. Result is that after an initial scrabble, you come stonking out the corner
Amazingly, this technique works, but is NOT to be recommended to anyone that is going to bottle it mid corner (lift-off o/steer) or until you've had a wee bit of practice.
Posted about this a long time ago & 1st reply was SdB who scientifically disected it. It's not efficient (in terms of going round corners) but it can be fun & is a definate bottle job
Usual disclaimers apply but I did it (on purpose - previous 4wd experience) 2 weeks after picking up PTMW! from the dealer, at a 90 right with a brick wall in front & ShellGrip
NP Wondered why afterwards You have been warned!
11 November 2001, 04:03 PM
#40
PS
PTMW! now has Prodrive Settings, SO2s, Leda, Strut Brace & is almost impossible to get u/steer out of - needs way too much entry speed on a wet & greasy roundabout, but is simply corrected by a lift-off then back on the power quickly (practice this as well
)
PTMW! now has Prodrive Settings, SO2s, Leda, Strut Brace & is almost impossible to get u/steer out of - needs way too much entry speed on a wet & greasy roundabout, but is simply corrected by a lift-off then back on the power quickly (practice this as well
)
11 November 2001, 04:52 PM
#41
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Cool, when you say its imposible to get understeer out of do yo umeen you dont get understeer? or when you do get it you cant correct it?? sorry fopr being dim.
Did those mods improve the car a great deal?
Did those mods improve the car a great deal?
11 November 2001, 05:08 PM
#42
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?? there was a silver 97 with sti engine and turbo, running 21psi (1.5bar) is that the one you mean ? surely you don't call this standard or uk spec do you. i overtook him few times that day.
evo vii is slower than my car but i want a new car, so ?
evo vii is slower than my car but i want a new car, so ?
11 November 2001, 08:32 PM
#44
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HI
at last puff somebody else that knows and can drive a subaru as it is meant to be driven ,top man bet you dont read max power like the rest of them
ssubaru
ps. sam ok it was running 18psi not 21 psi and you only passed once due to me slowing down to come of due to my new green stuff pads catching fire ,drove home on metal to metal, there was other silver uk spec on track which was slow due to being standard video evidence of other cars can be supplied by cossie hinksy from edinburgh
at last puff somebody else that knows and can drive a subaru as it is meant to be driven ,top man bet you dont read max power like the rest of them
ssubaru
ps. sam ok it was running 18psi not 21 psi and you only passed once due to me slowing down to come of due to my new green stuff pads catching fire ,drove home on metal to metal, there was other silver uk spec on track which was slow due to being standard video evidence of other cars can be supplied by cossie hinksy from edinburgh
11 November 2001, 08:35 PM
#45
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I agree with Puff, keep the power on and steer in. If you do get a little understeer turn in tighter, works for me. If your going a little quick and the back needs correcting lift off and back on the power quickly will correct it.
DON'T DO THIS UNTIL YOU HAVE GAINED THE CONFIDENCE AND DON'T DO IT ON THE NORMAL ROADS. TRACK DAYS AND AIRFIELD ARE THE PLACE FOR PRACTISING.
Cheers Phill C
PS Sorry for shouting
DON'T DO THIS UNTIL YOU HAVE GAINED THE CONFIDENCE AND DON'T DO IT ON THE NORMAL ROADS. TRACK DAYS AND AIRFIELD ARE THE PLACE FOR PRACTISING.
Cheers Phill C
PS Sorry for shouting
11 November 2001, 09:56 PM
#48
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yeh geting the feel of it slowly, trying to sort geometry out soon to help, does it wear rubber out quicker? if so how much quicker?
and no i dont read max power in fact i cant read at all so there
and no i dont read max power
in fact i cant read at all so there
12 November 2001, 01:19 PM
#50
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Stoopid question, but how much quicker does anyone know?
Only done 300 miles in it so far, whats the normal duration rubber should last (ball park figures for bridgestones and spirited county driving, dont comute, use buss for that lol)
Only done 300 miles in it so far, whats the normal duration rubber should last (ball park figures for bridgestones and spirited county driving, dont comute, use buss for that lol)
12 November 2001, 04:57 PM
#51
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Phil
I think SDB would disagree with you about the turning in tighter to correct understeer. Not too sure myself, but I think it is something to do with the front tyres having already exceeded thier limits of adhesion and you are then stressing them further by turning in more.
Not saying it doesn't work but I think I have seen this written somewhere.
Rikki
I think SDB would disagree with you about the turning in tighter to correct understeer. Not too sure myself, but I think it is something to do with the front tyres having already exceeded thier limits of adhesion and you are then stressing them further by turning in more.
Not saying it doesn't work but I think I have seen this written somewhere.
Rikki
12 November 2001, 06:28 PM
#52
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Rikki 95WRX,
Well he can if he likes....
As I said steer tighter and if you can't get the car pointing in the right direction lifting off the throttle and back on (quickly) will correct it.
Obviously there is a limit to steering in to correct the understeer, but I rarely get to that point.
Cheers Phill C
PS With the RE010 I got 11k had the Pro-drive cambers done and have done 13k, and have loads of tread on the centre of the tyres. Front left hand tyres is a little worse for wear, but that is my misses going to fast around roundabouts I expect another 6k out of the SO2. I do a lot of motorway driving, but do use A / B roads.
Well he can if he likes....
As I said steer tighter and if you can't get the car pointing in the right direction lifting off the throttle and back on (quickly) will correct it.
Obviously there is a limit to steering in to correct the understeer, but I rarely get to that point.
Cheers Phill C
PS With the RE010 I got 11k had the Pro-drive cambers done and have done 13k, and have loads of tread on the centre of the tyres. Front left hand tyres is a little worse for wear, but that is my misses going to fast around roundabouts
I expect another 6k out of the SO2. I do a lot of motorway driving, but do use A / B roads.
13 November 2001, 01:27 AM
#53
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Im going to sound realy dum here, as im clueless when it comes to car rubber. (ex biker and all that)
you telling me you get 13 thousand miles? on a set of rubber?
LOL used to wear out my soft rubber on my bike wheeling it out of the shed.
you telling me you get 13 thousand miles? on a set of rubber?
LOL used to wear out my soft rubber on my bike wheeling it out of the shed.
13 November 2001, 10:50 AM
#55
Cat
I got over 10,000 miles on my last set of Dunlop D207s on my SRAD - loadsa motorway miles.
Current "budget" tyres on Vectra is nearly 35,000
SO2s on PTMW! are about 12,000 with several laps of Donnington & also Bedford to their credit. Bundles of tread left
OK - so I drive like a wuss on the road!! But SO2's I was using yesterday have done 7500 road miles, Snetterton, Brands Hatch (x2), Oulton Park & Bedford Autodrome & (they have been swopped around on the rims) all four will still be good as RHS for a couple of more track days (Bedford Autodrome maybe)
I got over 10,000 miles on my last set of Dunlop D207s on my SRAD - loadsa motorway miles.
Current "budget" tyres on Vectra is nearly 35,000
SO2s on PTMW! are about 12,000 with several laps of Donnington & also Bedford to their credit. Bundles of tread left
OK - so I drive like a wuss on the road!!
But SO2's I was using yesterday have done 7500 road miles, Snetterton, Brands Hatch (x2), Oulton Park & Bedford Autodrome & (they have been swopped around on the rims) all four will still be good as RHS for a couple of more track days (Bedford Autodrome maybe)
13 November 2001, 01:12 PM
#56
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Do you keep the same ruber for track days and road use?
I was thining of waiting till by bridgesotes became NON-ROAD sutable, then get some new 17" and ruber for the road, and keep the 16" and worn rubber for track days.
Is it ok to use worn rubber on track (loss of grip accepted, as imgona be a slow coach on my first track day, anyone fancy inducting me on one lol)
I was thining of waiting till by bridgesotes became NON-ROAD sutable, then get some new 17" and ruber for the road, and keep the 16" and worn rubber for track days.
Is it ok to use worn rubber on track (loss of grip accepted, as imgona be a slow coach on my first track day, anyone fancy inducting me on one
lol)
13 November 2001, 03:34 PM
#57
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catflap,
13k is realistic if you do a lot of motorway mileage, as I do....
Most people have a spare set of wheels and tyres for track days. I wouldn't go on the track with brand new SO2s. I have kept the original RE010 tyres that came with the car, apparently there are supposed to be quite good, when well worn.
Cheers Phill C
13k is realistic if you do a lot of motorway mileage, as I do....
Most people have a spare set of wheels and tyres for track days. I wouldn't go on the track with brand new SO2s. I have kept the original RE010 tyres that came with the car, apparently there are supposed to be quite good, when well worn.
Cheers Phill C
15 November 2001, 09:36 PM
#58
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Rikki,
You are right, once a tyre has passed the limit of lateral grip then applying more lock will not help. It involves something called slip angles, which basically boils down to the fact that tyres are designed to do one thing at once. Either grip in one direction or the other not both. Which is why racing drivers brake in a straight line and then turn on a neutral throttle. And so maximising grip during braking and also during the turn.
Simple really
DaveW
You are right, once a tyre has passed the limit of lateral grip then applying more lock will not help. It involves something called slip angles, which basically boils down to the fact that tyres are designed to do one thing at once. Either grip in one direction or the other not both. Which is why racing drivers brake in a straight line and then turn on a neutral throttle. And so maximising grip during braking and also during the turn.
Simple really
DaveW
17 November 2001, 02:48 AM
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Be careful about using old tyres on the track. I kept one set of tyres (very high quality ones) too long and had a tyre blow out at 180(km/h) - trust me, this is not fun. I will only use good rubber on the track now.