chiark

It seems that there's been a fair few tales of woe recently about people doing a number in their (or, if they're luckier, their dealer's) pride and joy.

Short of looking out for leaves/diesel/assorted crap on the road, does anyone have any tips for driving the Scoob in the winter?

Lift off oversteer is a big concern, so I guess that in turn leads to taking it easier so as to avoid situations that would provoke this. I've experienced this once or twice

I'll be booking into Don Palmer as I'm possibly getting a bit complacent, and this is where the trouble would start with me... (hi Cem)

Any thoughts, short of slowing down? It's so unfair, particularly as turbos seem so keen on cooler weather

Richard Simpson

One of the many excellent points Dick made at the SIDC driving course was - go out expecting to slide. This view is that used in Sweden - if it is snowy and icey all winter, chances are that you will slide at some point.

I guess if it is pissing down, there are leaves on the road, ice, snow etc and you drive like it is summer you are bound to come a cropper. Although this seems to be the favoured method for mothers in Jeeps!!

I guess the point is don't feel too removed from the conditions.

Cheers,

Richard

Robertio

iTrader: (1)

One easy thing, is to make sure you have very good tread on your tyres, a few hundred now can save you thousands during the winter. Trust me.

Squizz

I had an accident way back, in my RWD TR7V8. No real reason for it, either I hit a greasy patch (diesel) or a rear trailing arm sheared (Known to happen, and given the bent axle, etc - Likely).

Either way, if it's wet I drive my scoob like RWD. No snappy steering movements, all my braking in a straight line before a bend, steady throttle round the bend, increase gas on way out.

All the 4WD, ABS, etc on the scoob still acts as a safety net just in case I'm still going too fast.

I must be getting old.

Sith

Best advice is to drive within the conditions. Use common sense - Does it look safe to large it.

P. (Enjoying the cold weather. So is the Turbo. )

chiark

I must admit since having the scoob I have been more aware of breaking before putting any steering on at all and trying to balance the car before the corner...

chiark

Sorry, probably terrible etiquette to reply to your own post, but the obvious one about always being able to stop in the distance that you can see is probably worth reminding myself of - particularly as stopping distances are increased...

Cheers folks. Keep 'em coming if you can think of anything except the obvious

chuckster

Slow down! It's dark, wet and slippery.
(And my insurance renewal is due in the spring, so no more lift off oversteer stories please! )
Chuck

JohnS

iTrader: (1)

I wrote an article which appeared in True Grip last year around winter time about driving an Impreza in snow and ice. Not based on any theory, but my own experiences in fairly deep snow and ice etc.

Could put the info back up on here if people thought it would be of any use ?

Moss

Tell us more...

chiark

JohnS: Sounds excellent! Wheel it out!

Blow Dog

Nick,
One advice I can give is thus:

We are only human and as much as we think we are good drivers (we may still be) there are other things going on that make driving, especially in winter, such a hazzardous job.
We are not immortal. Subarus and Evo's are not 'glued' to the road. The laws of physics still apply, and as you say, complacency lives amongst all of us, its just nobody knows it.

Be safe.

Cem

Matt Oz

Chiark,

What you need to do is get out on your Fireblade on a Sunday morning, and then fall off on a large wet patch on a right hander corner!!

Oops! Guess that the insirance company are not going to like me at renewal time!!

BUGGER!

Matt

Dave T-S

(Posted this elsewhere but it's valid)

Dynamics are dynamics.

Brake in a straight line and slow in, fast out and no problems. Worst combination is probably standard UK car on standard tyres (made of mahogany and 110,000 miles out of a set) - i.e. mine!

Round here (rural farmer boy country) the roads are brillant to drive on but worn out polished tarmac, leaves and mud everywhere, black ice three days last week, you learn to treat the back end of a Scoob with big respect. From experience the worst possible scenario is two rapid changes of direction - you get polar movement of inertia before the suspension has time to settle and it's tank slapper (ooer ) time.

They don't like black ice either (what does?) as all the wheels search around alternatively for grip on slippery surfaces and that makes the car feel extra nervous.

Better the Wetter course for free every day on my commute - 14 miles, mostly national speed limit on rural roads and no straight bit longer than about 100yds

millband

Cheers John, good article. It's also perfect timing for me - I'm off to the Highlands this weekend, and currently is looks like this:

JohnS

iTrader: (1)

OK, here's the article I wrote for True Grip a couple of years ago. Hope some of you find it of benefit.

<B>Imprezas on Ice</B>

A Subaru Impreza has 4WD, therefore it will be brilliant in the snow and ice - correct ? Well in some respects yes, but in others most definitely not. Last winter, Aberdeen and the North East of Scotland experienced some of the heaviest snow falls for many years, with some 9 - 18 inches of snow falling in little more than 24 hours. What follows are my own experiences of driving an Impreza on public roads through some of the worst winter weather we can expect to encounter here in the UK:

With a superb 4WD system, the Impreza has almost unbelievable levels of traction, even with wide low profile tyres (I was running on well worn 205/45ZR17 Pirelli P Zeros). Moving forward and accelerating, even uphill, is never really a problem if you take things gently enough. As long as you have some momentum, and don't start spinning the wheels through over-keen use of the throttle, uphill sections can be approached with confidence. However, remember it is possible to have all 4 wheels spinning in 4th gear at only 20mph through exuberant use of the throttle, and if you hit a bump the car can leap sideways very quickly without warning!

I live at the bottom of quite a steep hill (about 1 in 5 in places) , and even with some 8 inches of fresh snow, getting to the top was never a problem. This was certainly not the case for some of my neighbours, with powerful FWD/RWD cars, most of who were forced to leave their cars at home for several days.

Like most cars running on wide low profile tyres and firm suspension, navigating corners in the snow and ice is the biggest problem. Terminal understeer is the usual culprit, and it is quite shocking how slowly you are forced to take some corners if you wish to get safely round without hitting the kerbs or other vehicles. If you attempt to turn into a corner at even one third of the speed that you would in the wet, then you will find that the car goes straight ahead. Very dramatic, and no amount of extra lock will do any good. You really will be surprised how little grip there is available. The only safe remedy (unless you are a highly skilled driver) is to cut the power , depress the clutch, and either wait for the car to slow enough for grip to be returned, or to straighten up the steering wheel and progressively re-apply the lock.

When driving in the snow and ice, you will soon become jealous of the cornering abilities of a 1.0 Nova, running on skinny high profile tyres! No surprise really then than when running in the Swedish (and Monte Carlo) rallies, the works Imprezas run on narrow 5.5 x 16 wheels (5.5 x 18 for some tarmac stages on the Monte), with very narrow studded tyres.

The other major problem in driving your Impreza in snow and ice, is simply stopping the car again. The main culprits here again are the wide low profile tyres. Whilst ideal for dry and wet roads, they can be a dangerous liability on winter roads. When driving your Impreza on snow and ice, you should aim to leave at least a five second gap between you and the car in front. When slowing down or coming to a stop, you should aim to be able to do so without resorting to the brake pedal unless necessary.

One of the scariest experiences you will ever encounter in your car, is not being able to stop. Braking distances can be up to 10 times greater on compacted snow and ice, than they are in the dry. Look up at the stopping distances in your copy of the Highway Code, multiply them by 10 and then think about it. Yes it really can take the length of a football pitch to stop from 30mph, and this is on level ground. If there slopes downhill, then braking distances can be even higher. It is not uncommon for cars braking on wet ice downhill to actually accelerate, even with maximum braking effort.

Although a huge benefit to 99% of drivers in 99% of road conditions, ABS brakes (as fitted to the UK Impreza and most modern cars) can actually be a hazard when driving in wintry conditions. With very low levels of grip, the ABS can kick in with only the slightest pressure on the brake pedal. My scariest experience of last winter was travelling back down the very same steep hill on the way home. Turning the corner at the top at less than 5mph, I gently pressed the brake pedal to slow my progress down the hill, which was now covered in wet compacted snow and ice. No matter how gently I pressed the brakes, the ABS system kicked in, and I was essentially free-wheeling downhill, gathering speed all the time!!! Luckily, the snow was still quite deep at the side of the road, and I managed to steer the offside wheels into the deep snow, left the car in first gear and removed my feet from all the pedals. Luckily there was enough friction from the deep snow to bring the car almost to a halt before I reached the bottom of the hill.

The best braking technique is to gently apply the brakes, and increase the braking pressure until you feel the wheels start to lock or the ABS system activate. Once this happens, gently release the brake pedal until you feel that the wheels are no longer locking, and then hold the pedal at this point. This will give you maximum braking effort, and still permit you to steer the car gently if necessary. Be prepared to increase or decrease the braking pressure as the level of grip available under the tyres varies with the road conditions.

If you live in a part of the country where you can expect more than just a light covering of snow for a few days of the year, then it is well worth investing in a set of proper winter tyres for your Impreza. These transform the cars ability in wintry conditions to such an extent, that one of my friends who fitted them to his Impreza turbo was much better in snow and ice than his previous car, and that was a Jeep Cherokee! These tyres are relatively inexpensive for 15 inch wheels (not suitable for cars fitted with the 4 pot brakes), and just over £100 each for 16 inch wheels (limited options).

Another life saver is attending a training course which teaches you how to control and correct the different types of skids when they occur, and more importantly how to avoid them in the first place. These can also teach you how a car behaves on icy roads, and how best to use the brakes in these situations. Not only is a course of this type very educational (it could save your life), but also huge amounts of fun.

All this winter driving sounds a bit boring or extremely dangerous doesn't it ? Not at all. If you are confident enough, and know how your car is going to behave. It can be very amusing to accelerate away from a standstill in snow faster than most normal road cars can in the dry! Also good fun is applying the power when coming out of open corners when you can see there is nothing coming in the other direction. You can get the back end of the car to step out, and hold it in a lovely tail slide whilst accelerating at unbelievable rate. You can almost imagine the cheering crowds and flashing cameras….

<B>Top Tips for Safe Winter Driving</B>

If the road conditions are really bad, only venture out if the journey is really necessary.

Before you set off, make sure you clear the snow and ice off of all your windows, lights, bonnet, roof and boot. It may save you a few minutes to only clear the windscreen and the side windows, but the police can and will prosecute you if you do not have clear all round visibility. Once your car is going, the heat from the engine and inside the car will melt the snow on the roof and bonnet, and under heavy braking it will slide off completely covering the windscreen, and even slide off onto the road causing your front wheels to skid!

The quickest and most effective way of clearing your windows is to use warm water. Under no circumstances should you use boiling or hot water, or throw a lot of water on the windows at once. A 2 litre plastic milk container is more than enough to clear one car. Clear off the worst of any snow by hand, and then pour the warm water gently over the windscreen, starting from the top and making sure that the water pours over the roof to start with. This will clear the whole car in 30 seconds, and as the warm water has warmed up the glass, they will not mist up and freeze on the inside once you get started. De-icer can quickly clear ice from windows, but leaves the glass at a very low temperature, and can re-freeze just as quickly!

If your car is misted up on the inside, then use the air-conditioning, even with a warm air setting as it dehumidifies the air being blown onto the screen.

In wintry driving conditions, set off at least 15 - 30 minutes earlier than normal, as traffic speeds are much slower, and rushing to get somewhere on time vastly increases you chances of having an accident.

Conversely, driving too slowly for the conditions can also be a hazard, as many frustrated drivers will bunch up behind, and may even try to pass when it is not safe to do so! If the car behind is too close for comfort, simply pull over and let them pass!

Be very aware of all the other cars around you, especially ones approaching the main road from a side junction. These junctions are often the slippiest parts of the road, as the heat from stationary cars can partially melt the surface snow and ice making the surface even slippier! If you are expecting cars to skid out onto the road in front of you, then you can be ready to take avoiding actions.

Turn down your stereo!!! When the road surface is at it's slippiest, the road noise from the tyres drops very dramatically. In fresh snow, you can hear the tyres crunching their way along, and in slushy conditions it sounds like you are driving through very heavy rain.

Practise!! On of the best ways of improving your confidence and abilities in the snow is to find an unused car park or industrial estate, and have lots of fun learning how you car slides, turns and stops in wintry conditions. Most police officers are quite happy to leave you learning safe winter driving techniques, as long as you are not endangering yourself, other road users, damaging property, or causing a disturbance if you explain yourself properly.