Neil F

Anyone owned/had any experience with 80's Audi Quattros?
It's a car I've always liked and despite the fact that Evo didn't qualify their test Quattro for round 2 of the Best Drivers Car feature a couple of months ago (because of bald tyres or something!)I would maybe consider owning one in the future.
So, how do they compare to a Scooby handling wise (not as good I would guess!), how tuneable/reliable and what sort of club/spares/tuning network is behind the marque?
Also if anyone knows of any sites that give the history/spec of these cars that would be good.

Neil.

Saj

Hi Neil

I own one 1985 model bought and have had it for 15 years last year bought a STI V were do I start well put it this way in 15 years time I will not still have the Subaru but I will still have the Quattro.

Quattro better built by far for my liking more stable in mid quick bends but otherwise the Impreza is better.

Bear in mind that I have done a few mods to the Quattro Brakes, suspension etc,etc

The same has been done to the Scoob and a bit more.

Like they say Quattro car of the 80s Impreza car of the 90s whats going to happen this decade.

Why are you asking thinking of getting one will be pleased to help if you need any info

Saj
S3 WRC

pnebbs

I had an 85 Ur-Quattro for a couple of years - best car I've had

Handling not as predictable as Scooby (spun it a couple of times, engine too far forward

Very well built - dash is liked by some hated by others - very dark and sombre interior (high window line - wife didn't like it)

Good engine - nice noise, fairly powerful and reasonably easy to tune

Good club, lots of specialists

I will get another one soon I hope

(My Legacy GT-B is a better car, but I prefer the Quattro!!!)

Paul

Loads of character

Neil F

I saw one a couple of days ago which refreshed my interest in them but I'm a bit vague on the model range.
Which would be the best year/model to go for?
Paul, you mention a "Ur"? What does this denote?
Basically, I want the full on rally looks with those gorgeous box arches "full of wheel", 3squillion brake etc, etc.

neil.

Saj

UR in german means original various models 80, 81 left hand drives, 82-84 slimmer wheels cable operated diffs square headlamps, 84 late - 87 new wider wheels darkened rear lights nicer front and vacum diff locks, 87-89 torsend diffs, 89 onwards 20 valve engine and twin pot callipers

pnebbs

Forgotten what Ur means (I think it might be "The") but UR-quattro is the original 2 door boxy coupe audi with turbo 5 cylinder engine. All other 4wd audis were just quattros.

The early ones had 4 headlights, vertical grilles, analogue instruments, horrible interior, 6" wheels, 200bhp, lockable centre and rear diffs

Next model had green digital instruments, single piece headlights (4 beams still), 8" wheels, same engine and transmission

Next model was the same but engine modified slightly, torsen centre diff

Last and best models had 20V engine with 220bhp and different interior - very nice cars

All were comfortable for 4 people, but with 20 gallon fuel tank and rear diff had very small boots

Paul

Mike Read

I currently have a UR Quattro Turbo 1988 for sale, It has black leather seats and just turned 100k.

Cheapest you'll find in this condition at £5750

Interested?

Saj

No I am not but if it is good condition AM cars in Somerset I think would be.

Neil F

Don't try to tempt me Mike!
I was just thinking to the future when maybe I'm bored with the STi4. I was thinking I might put my cash into a decent convertible for the summer and buy something older, with a Scooby type charm to it, for those cold and wet winter days. The Quattro could just fit that bill.

Neil.

NICK OAKLAND

Neil, There's a company called Dialynx just around the corner from me in Lydiard Millicent , NR Swindon. The guys there, Alred and Keith shorten UR Quattro's into Quattro Sport's and I reckon they have approx 30 UR Quattro's on site all the time. Alred lives & breathes UR's and is always helpful and I'm sure would like at any prospective purchase for you before parting with any cash. They also race an awsome UR.
Their No: is 01793 772245

jeremy

Here I think is the most fitting tribute to the Quattro I have ever heard. Written to me by a former SIDC member, whom is no longer on SIDC- so I've deleted his name.
Here it is...
The steering on the impreza gives a better feel for how much grip there is at the front tyres - e.g. the feel of the steering changes when the tyres start to run out of grip. The quattro steering didn't really relay that info. particularily well. I found that with the quattro i tended to notice the front end of the car yawing wide rather than picking the signals up through the steering. This is less effective in that the cars already out of shape whereas with the impreza you can take corrective action before it actually happens.Your theory about it happening more often is an interesting one but i don't think it does - the impreza is more prone to oversteer whereas the quattro was more of an understeerer, due to that lovely 5 pot sitting right out in the nose.

What happens to the quattro when it runs out of grip? This is perhaps one of its best aspects as its enormously docile - if its understeering you just lift a bit and the nose comes back into line - if you snap it shut then sometimes the tail will move out slightly but responds to reducing the lock on the steering - it's all very gentle, pleasant and enjoyable. Alternatively, if its really slippy e.g. snow you can boot the tail out but will respond to a lift or flick of the steering - it doesn't really seem to like being out of shape, it always comes back to straight very easily - it seems to have a large amount of natural centring/stability - perhaps it's the nose heavy 5 pot that assist this? I think that's the crux of the difference between the quattro and the impreza - the impreza doesn't have the willingess to snap back into shape, it's quite happy to travel up the road completely sideways and you have to be far more accurate with the corrective action to keep it together. Depends what you look for in a car, i guess. The impreza's more satsifying when you get it right - it's a greater challenge / test of your skill. However, i would definitely prefer the quattro in really bad conditions as its less likely to end up on its roof in the ditch.

A good example of its poor weather ability was a couple of years ago when i was down in england visting my in-laws. One evening they had the heaviest rain they'd had in 30 years, about an inch and half in 30 minutes. We were out driving at the time, the dual carriageway was literally like driving down a river. We saw about two dozen cars broken down at the side of the road, nearly all fords and GM strangely enough, everyone else was crawling along at about 15 mph in the inside lane - the quattro was quite happy at 60 - 70 mph in the outside lane, kicking up a rooster trail of spray about 15 foot high.................vorsprung durch technik.

Neil F

Nick.

Thanks for that. That's an important contact that I'll note down immediately.

Jeremy.
An interesting view and a comparison that hopefullt I will be able to make for myself one day. However, the guys appraisal of the Impreza seems a little odd? He describes the scooby as having a natural tendancy to oversteer and an unwillingness to come back into line. I think we'd all agree that a "factory" Impreza is set up to understeer until tweaked, and that usually only takes it to a neutral balance (unless taken to the extreme).
Also I have always been extremely impressed with the catchability of the Impreza leading me to think he maybe got the 2 cars confused?
Just an observation and either way, I would still like a Quattro on the basis of styling, engineering and rally kudos (it would have to be a Ur model).
Pretty much the attraction to my beloved Scooby!
Thanks for the info guys.

Neil.

jeremy

Neil,
I think you are partly right. I believe this gentlemans Impreza might have been an early STi car with less balanced handling than later Impreza's.
I don't think the writer was implying that the Subaru is not catchable. I think what he was saying was that simply with the Impreza you have to do a little of the work and be a little sharper with your imputs. Whereas the Quattro does some of that for you-possibly at the expense of making the car more inert.
However I do take his point about self-centering seriously. I think that it may be fair to say that in some conditions the Quattro with its unique front-engine weight combined with a well judged chassis and not a lot of overall weight, can give this car an advantage. (After all although many may say that this car has got too much front weight, this did not seem to affect it too much through all its numerous rally victories.) That is, I beleieve that the total weight transfer characteristics (from front to rear)of this particular Audi give the car a ability to slide in a more of a slow motion as well as self-center itself. The fellows at Evo have said this as well.
Ultimately however you never know unless a direct back to back comparison is made in specific same for same conditions. A direct comparison would be worthwhile.

[This message has been edited by jeremy (edited 24-07-2000).]

SDB

Jeremy

Don't confuse oversteer with "bad handling" or "dangerous".

understeer is a far less controllable state than oversteer. It is just that the majority of people will make more of a mess of oversteer than they will of understeer.

In the orriginal Audi Rally cars, understeer was the bane (sp?) of their lives. They tried everything to get rid of it. When you are doing 130MPH down a narrow bumpy forrest track, you need LOTS of front end grip.

The engine being so far forward is probably partly to remove some of this understeer.

In rallying and indeed almost all motorsport, oversteer is by FAR more acceptable than understeer.

Cheers

Simon

jeremy

Simon,
This is the big question. Do we want racing car handling characteristics for the public road? This is a riddle I am still seeking an anwswer to. The public road throws up very unique challenges that are different from those of the track. On road you face other road users, random debris, animals and pedestrians. And most often, unpredicable road conditions that do not allow you to turn around and "try that corner again", because if you've blown it, you might be in the hospital.
Yes I understand that often oversteer can be of use, as too- slight understeer, but what I think I'm really asking is what sort of transition properties, predicability and progression characteristics on the limit should a swift car posses? I think there is no one answer, no one car, but rather several good ones to specific scenarios. I would love to be able to try out several appropriate fast cars and test for each...

blubs

In my opinion it comes down to what you are used to.
In my early days I grew up with rwd, through rallying Escorts, Chevettes and Manta's, and I find that the Impreza is very capable in all situations but it is so neutral that it tends towards understeer which I find unnatural.
A very good friend of mine, (same age as me), spent all his early days with Mini's and then onto other quick fwd machinery. When he drove my rwd cars he was a bit awkward and said he could never get the hand of the rear end breaking away first.
He states, after driving my Scoob, that it feels very natural to him and he really loves it.
Even now, when I recently drove a Westfield, I felt I could find the limit quicker and felt comfortable with the 'sideways' atributes of the car.
That's not to say that the Impreza is not enjoyable, just enormously capable.

blubs

Neil F

I tend to agree with Simon when it comes to under/oversteer.
Having been brought up on rear wheel drive cars I personally favour the oversteer characeristic at the limit (plus it's more fun!). But I do understand the need for understeer based upon the fact that some drivers need to be protected from themselves. Understeer responds better to the instinctive backing off that most people default to, and I think Subaru are being quite responsible in pinning back some of the cars cornering potential to avoid that false sense of security.
Unlike Mitsubishi, Subaru leave it to the individual to alter these characteristics themselves but then again, the Impreza reaches out to a wider market than the Evo (seen the thread about the granny in a 5 door Turbo!?).
There are occasions however when you can link oversteer with 'bad handling' and 'dangerous' Simon: Capri 2.0, 5 up in the wet !!!
The kids of today in their Novas just don't know how dangerous life was when we were young. "I remember one night Ginger was driving us back from Slappers nightclub....blah, blah......traffic lights......blah....Mexico replica........blah.......handbrake turn.....blah...."

[This message has been edited by Neil F (edited 25-07-2000).]