powerwrx

iTrader: (11)

which would you concider, im toying with the idea os getting one of these two. both around the 03 reg

Zod.

ctr all day long.

cooper S is for closet benders.

LG John

I've driven both fairly extensively. The mini is such a girls car and you really can't escape that feeling when you are driving it. However, it handles like a rollerskate and is a joy to throw around. The forced induction delivery, whilst crude compared to the ctr, does make it feel faster and gives it more useful acceleration in certain situations.

I think this is a spot where you'll defo have to drive and poke around them both. The mini is more fun, no questions, but the Honda is a more gown up and manly car. It's also much more spacious than the mini.

A little tip about the mini as well. When I first drove one I thought it was overwheeled and didn't feel confident in the corners. The solution is to simply lean harder on it. In other words drive it more aggressively and carry more speed and it livens up and is really communicative.

richs2891

Had an 03 plate ctr the 30th edition one with the red recaro seats, and driven plently of cooper s of simlair and newer age.
Of the two I would go for the Honda with out even thinking - especially if I could get a mint 30AE. The mini does look newer than the Honda as its shape has not changed that much though.
Honda much more fun for a weekend scream than the mini.

richard

LG John

Very much depends on the roads IMHO. The ctr is good on smooth, sweeping roads but chuck in some bumps and the mini is far more resolved. I've driven them both in the Scottish highlands and the ctr was a battle to stop it from bouncing off the road mid-bend. The mini was arguably more composed, even on it's limits, than my classic Impreza's.

I'd also argue that it's chuckability makes it more fun. That said, revving the nuts off the Honda is fun too.

powerwrx

iTrader: (11)

hmmmm thanks for the replys, seems both cars are fun to drive but the mini more of a girly car..i have thought this before but looking through some pistonhead ad's there are a few very nice looking coopr S's which really lean me towards having one..the can be modded to look awsome, yet i suppose the ctr is a nice car to look at from the start.

hard desision

P1Fanatic

Depends what you want out of the car. I currently drive an FN2 CTR and its a very practical car in terms of lugging stuff around. Can even fit my MTB in the back and the EP3 model has similar space (test drove one before buying a MY00 Turbo scoob). The EP3 (breadvan as its referred to) has definetly aged looks wise.

Saxo is right about the drive though. Decent roads it handles on rails but even the smallest bump or lump and it gets unsettled probably due to the overly stiff suspension. Obviously not conducive to good traction on said road conditions.

Ive not drive a Cooper S (been a passenger) and have no doubt its more chuckable. But I just cant see past the girlie style, lack of space and gimmicky interior (big dials etc). And dont even get me started on the convertible version - cant believe how many blokes I see in those. Only car worse looking in drop top mode is the new shape Beetle.

Simon

Scoobless

If you like the boy racer image go for the CTR, otherwise ignore the girly image of the mini as there are plenty of male mini drivers.

Try them both

NotoriousREV

CTR but with a supercharger kit. A mate of mine has one with an amazing carbon fibre induction kit and it's mentally fast and sounds incredible.

Boyakasha

iTrader: (2)

There's just enough space for your handbag in a mini

CTR wins hands down.

Fabioso

Depends how "Homo/Metro sexual" you are.........If you throw a ball just from the elbow and look in the rear view mirror a lot to "check your hair" and enjoy the odd pastel coloured polo shirt then go for the mini but ONLY if all the above apply otherwise you will never feel comfortable in such a feminine car.

For me its gotta be the CTR..............30AE especially for the seats.......

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Just to play devils advocate, what about reliability on the two cars?

Which one is better?

P1Fanatic

Come on be fair

There is enough room for a makeup bag as well

Simon

P1Fanatic

So you own / have owned one then

Simon

IggyRB320

iTrader: (9)

My Mrs has a 54 plate facelift, JCW 210bhp.
The super-charger performs very weel & sounds sweet.

Have to say that its a very good drive & is more than a match for a standard 225bhp WRX, so the CTR shouldn't be a problem!

Still prefer the RB320 though!!!

P1Fanatic

I always thought that the S in Cooper S stood for supercharged but the MK2 onward is turbocharged right?

As for power to weight ratio:

Cooper S Mk1 150bhp/tonne
Cooper S Mk2 142bhp/tonne
Mini Cooper S Works 167bhp/tonne
CTR EP3 158bhp/tonne
CTR FN2 146bhp/tonne

So Id be very suprised if any of the 3 coopers could pull anything on a CTR or WRX in a straight line.

Simon

nisr227

CTR for me, even after a highly modified 330bhp+ 4wd gtir, the CTR, although slower, is a great drivers car and damn good fun. I've driven a friends mk1 cooper s with works upgrade (or be it a convertible version) and it was very good, quick and handled very well, but I just prefer the reving of a vtec.

- CTR EP3 has 197bhp and 1203kg so its closer 166bhp per ton.

Combined with one of the fastest manual gearchanges around with great ratios, and excellent top end speed for its bhp, it will have the legs on a cooper S when speeds rise, you'd need a works or GP version to have a chance if performance is important. Autocar timed an early EP3 model back in 2002 with 60 in 6.7sec but a more impressive 16.2secs to 100 showing the improvement once it gets going. It set the benchmark in its day but modern hatches are getting faster all the time, have alot more power but with the weight too.

Incidently Autocar timed the heavier (tests have shown 1350kg+) but same engine CTR FN2 0-100 in 18.4secs, and the new Mini Cooper S Mk2 18.5sec to 100.

More importantly I took my CTR EP3 on a 200 mile driving meet around Brecon, Wales a few weeks back and it was fantastic fun throwing it through corners, and it seemed to cope with the roads as well as (if not better at times) as the Clio Trophy, Focus ST and CTR FN2 CW (lsd) did when I was following them. Just make sure you have a revised geometry setup which works wonders for loads of predictable lift off oversteer, it's very addictive.

EP3 also has a much much bigger boot (for bread lol) if you have two dogs like me, is pretty economical out of vtec, and has more performance out of vtec too more so than some would led you to believe (far more low down than an older dc2 for example).

Kpro remaps can improve the vtec band further, and LSD the way it put its all down.

P1Fanatic

Agreed about the gearbox as its the one thing I remember about an extensive test drive I did in the EP3 before deciding to buy a scooby (couldnt resist the flat 4 rumble). Tbh its not as slick in my FN2 where the moved it down the dash so not quite in the same position. The FN2 gearbox also has a know problem with 3rd gear synchro although cant say Ive noticed it specifically but then mine has 3k on the clock and its a lease car so Im not overly fussed.

Simon

The Chief

I've always fancied getting a CTR and they are getting quite affordable now and on paper it looks the ideal car, i.e. fast (ish) great handling, practical, fairly economical, looks good, well built etc etc. need i go on? but..... coming from a Scooby with 300 lb ft of torque would i always hanker after that midrange thrust that a Scooby offers?

P1Fanatic

Are you looking at the old shape EP3 or the newer FN2? Not much difference engine wise - EP3 faster due to being lighter.

It really depends what you want from the car. If you want a motorway cruiser with bags of torque to overtake in 6th gear etc then it aint for you. If you prefer to chuck you car around and see it respond, are willing to use the gearbox and rev to the redline (what its designed for) then it will suit you.

You often hear the Civic lacks torque - of course it does when compared to a forced induction engine of the same capacity. But for an NA engine you wont find much similar that has the same BHP and Torque.

Simon

Fabioso

I think the EP3 is one of those models that was underrated since its launch and as time has moved on and the second hand prices have become keener, is being recognised as being very good value fun especially as the newer model doesn't move the game on in terms of raw performance.

They might not look current but I don't immediately think "Christ, that styling looks really tired" like I do with some other models of a similar age.

If you like the sound of a revving engine and can handle a gearbox then it seems like a very reliable, practical choice to me.

Dan Ingram

iTrader: (4)

I'd definitely go for the CTR. I've owned both the Civic and the Mini and really didn't get on with the Mini at all. Its horrible inside and feels a bit cheap really for what they cost. Also had to take it back to the dealers several times for rattles and noises which they failed to sort. I loved the Civic though so much so my Mrs now has the FN2 version so I can drive that. I don't like it as much as the EP3 version but it is really spacious inside and isn't any slower than the EP3 at all. Only problem with the new one is that the ride is terrible. Really crashy but it does work well when you start to push it even on bumpy roads. I've never had a problem mechanically with either Civic which is pretty impressive considering how they get driven. Just make sure you keep an eye on the oil level as they do use a bit.

P1Fanatic

The FN2 oil use vary car to car. Some who bed theirs in as per manual have higher oil consumption. Ive done 3.5k miles and vtec'd it since 200miles and its not used a drop. Seems they like the high revs from the off.

Simon

Scoobless

Had an extended drive of the Breadvan which was ok but the engine thrashing got annoying after awhile. Ended up getting a MCS (supercharged not turbo) and atm aprox 230-240 bhp so quite nippy, would of given my old UK300ppp a run for its money.

Suppose me driving a mini means i've come out of the closet,just don't tell the missus or me boy

theboy

I loved my Cooper S. Just too damm small. My rugby kit bag only just fit in the boot (so there not just for fairies)

subevo

never driven the mini but had the breadvan civic type r. only downside is wheelspin in the damp or wet.its just too easy and you cant put the power down which done my and my wifes head in.must admit wife now has old style merc slk 230 about 194hp it has instant acceleration at any speed due to supercharger.maybe im getting old but i cant be bothered thrashing the engine to get it to move now. its got to be a turbo or charger.many a time ive been beaten with crap cars cause i wasnt in the powerband of the civic.for example 30mph in 6th gear in town .boy racer flys past drop to 2nd gear .3rd gear no use as not in power band yet. time youve done this youve lost .imho.also overtaken a guy on a country road and he put the foot down (i wasnt in the power band).i had to drop gears like crazy to beat him as a bend was approaching.i just made it.if i had a turbo i would have flew past no problem.good cars though i just like instant power whenever i want it these days.

Fabioso

I don't understand why you would be in 6th gear at 30 in a CTR that sounds like a taxi driver prerogative . A CTR doesn't make it easy to "whoop boy racers asses" in 30 mph limits in town or complete a slightly less dangerous overtaking manouver but an SLK does......what? Doesn't sound like convincing reasons not to buy one to me.......

P1Fanatic

+1 and lol. Thats just pure laziness. And if you didnt select the right gear to drop down to thats not the cars fault. I was sat at roundabout lights (2 lanes into 1) last weekend and some fat bloke in a CLK230 compressor looked at me and then booted it off on amber. He was a bit suprised to see me glued about 3m off his bumper all the way up to the next roundabout.

Simon

subevo

yes ok pish examples.the overtaking manouvre was started in plenty of time but the plonker in the car decided i wasnt getting past thus causing me grief .