mista weava

hi all,
i have my 1.6 205 aswell as my scoob.

i wish to create a monster! thus i am going to fit it with an mi16 engine.

however the donor car has full mot is in good condition and is the 4x4 version of the 405 mi16.

i wish to try and graft the 4x4 system onto it aswell! seems a waste if not.

however this will not be as straight forward and i have not heard of any that have utilised this system. i have seen 4x4 cosworth running gear in a 205 before, so it should be possible.

does anyone no of one being done before or can offer any input as to how i might approach such a project.

its got to be done as it would be 'kin awseome!

peace
weava

Spec

Nice idea! Shouldn't be that hard if you're a very good/keen mechanic with good working facilities.
The engine swap is relatively easy and has been done many times before. The biggest problem will be like all 4x4 conversions the need to fabricate a transmission tunnel, shortening of the prop/driveshafts and mounting of the rear diff. The area around the bulkhead might need alot of fabrication to make space for the back of the gearbox, I'm not too familiar with pugs so couldn't say. The 4x4 system might not be the best either, my mate had/has a 405MI16 4x4 and the transfer?? box or something blew.
Maybe you can contact some of the specialists that advertise in the car mags?
Best of luck anyway

David_Wallis

sounds good... I would fit a rollcage (weld in) to the car first if doing it yourself...

theres a company that do this.. cant remember who it is though....

DR / DP motorsport or something

mista weava

thanks guys,

i was aware of the transmission tunnel dilema - will have to sort something out. have a few friends that are into welding and fabricating professionally.

basically this is not going to be an every day car for me - purely a whipping machine .

i reckon that a rollcage for general ridgidity is an excellent idea. also may come in handy on the track, you never know

as for transfer boxes, i will enquire as to the price. to be honest i will have to chuck alot of dough at this if its gonna be "proper" , so careful thought is required. the 4wd may be ambitious but if done well, would be sooooooooo damn cool - i must do it!

the guy that will help me is the 9th best head technician for pug in the country, according to their annual awards and is no stranger to messing about with stuff like this - a bonus one might say.

its gonna be a mission, but christ won't it shift and stick - will probably sort the odd scoob - they weigh as standard 910 kilos - with 4wd etc i doubt it ever top 1050 kilos.

i am beginning to become very excited.
whaddya reckon?
weava

dnb

If you decide to do this, I'll be round to help & get in your way if you like I still miss my old Pug

BOB.T

Sounds like a right project

Which way round is the lump in the 405, transverse?

I've heard of cossie 4x4 205's before too so an MI16 must be way do-able

If you're anywhere near Leeds/Bradford gimme a shout and I'll come help spanner

Best of luck

mista weava

cheers dnb, if i get this one off the ground i will need all the help i can get!

bob t - i am on the isle of wight, so might be a trek from leeds/bradford! most kind offer though.

the mi16 engine is basically a 1.9 205 gti engine with a 16 valve head on. it is transverse. you need and automatic bonnet to accomadate the engine, either that or you change the bottom engine mount.

i just wonder if any one has done the full 4wd conversion aswell as the engine?

weava


[Edited by mista weava - 12/22/2002 9:24:58 PM]

mozzaITA

I used to know somebody with a 205 van with cossie gear in it, the thing was awesome around 400 bhp and top speed around 170+ mph.

Thing was constantly overheating though and many other problems still it was nearly as fast as they come according to him and i dont doubt him.

igratton

My brother is just building an Mi16 Pug 205 rally car at the momment. We also had the option to buy the 405 4x4 running gear too. It will be a lot of work on the tranny tunnel and rear axle (we are choping out the rear arches anyway as we have to put in suspension turrets for coilovers)

The other thing to look at is the design of the 4x4 system. if its transfer boxes etc you may find that a lot of power gets lost before it gets to the wheels. Other 4x4 cars of the time such as Cav GSI2000 4x4 and Calibre turbo 4x4 had quite weak systems and didnt appreciate over 300bhp being put thru them.

I think my brother is sticking to FWD otherwise it would probably hamper the class of car he has to run against - I think he will have to run against formula 2 cars (i.e. Seats etc).

Mi16 engine is a good one - already has steel crank and rods out of the box. We will open up our engine in the next week or so to check out the state of the liners and pistons - these will be replaced with steel ones too. With sensible work (balancing, nitriding, cams, minor port and pollish, throttle bodies, tubular manifold, slightly larger injectors and management) it should be possible to get approx 240-260bhp at 8,700rpm. When you open up your motor check out the size of the valves - they are bloody massive !!!!

I'll let my brother know about this thread - maybe worth you guys having a chat.

Scoobynet really needs the 'Projects' forum opening pretty quick sharp to make it easier for people to follow these things

Ian.

igratton

Duplicate-ignore

[Edited by igratton - 12/23/2002 8:38:50 AM]

323GTR

There was one of these built years ago, I saw it featured in a magazine. The guy had fitted the rear subframe of the 405 4 x 4 into the back of the 205, masses of fabrication work needed. It was also turbo'd if I remember right. This would be ~5 years ago.

Fair play if you do it, anything is possible, but that's a BIG job.

igratton

There are a few other issues with the conversion too.

The std Mi16 inlet manifold is actually too long and the radiator gets in the way. There is a company that can exchange you a shortened manifold and this problem goes away.

I am fairly certain the std. bonnet should fit.

checkout http://www.mi16conversion.co.uk/ as they have pre-fabricated stuff for most of the work.

Ian.

[Edited by igratton - 12/23/2002 9:38:42 PM]

Brun

Sod the standard bonnet. Get a 205 automatic bonnet. Sweeet

David_Wallis

is that on axle stands?

David

Brun

Unfortunately not. It did get dropped on the deck soon after this pic

323GTR

Standard MI manifold fits, just move the rad forward and alter the bottom engine steady.

Hol

iTrader: (1)

A standard MI16 engine will fit nicely into a 205 even with the cast manifold if you modify the bottom rear mount.

The best engine for this actually the BX16V variant as the power steering pump is a better design as are the manifolds. My 309 was fitted with a BX engine and still used the standard injection system and loom which plugged in nicely to the engine. All I needed was a distributor adaptor (Viper Motorsport in Hants) and to have the air flap resprung.

Anyway. I have actually seen a magazine article a while ago (FAST CAR) with a PUG 4x4 TURBO set up. It was a pukka conversion and shows it can be done. From memory the main problem was the turbo itself which wasfitted above the geabox for space.

I know that yours is not a turbo and so should be easier.

astraboy

Have word with DJ motorsport. They did the cossie conversion on the 205 IIRC.
astraboy.

David_Wallis

DJ.. thats the one... see my earlier post...

David

Tommy 2000

May 2002 issue of Max Power has a nice MI 16 engined 205, prepared by the Pug masters 'Ecosse'. Added supercharger gives it 232 bhp!