Deliberately losing the election?
23 February 2010, 07:18 PM
#1
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Deliberately losing the election?
Right. So with the current incumbents the most inept and corrupt government we have ever had, to put it mildly, why aren't the Tories 50 points clear in the polls? Even allowing for media bias, they could never hide that amount of disparity about voting intentions. We also have zero idea of policies from said Tories, no beating on Labour day after day for their ineptitude and corruption and almost comical scenes when the Tories do launch a *policy*, such as the married allowance fiasco.
Are they deliberately trying to lose the GE so that the chickens come home to roost with Labour in power so they have to start to sort out their own mess for once? With a small majority at a a GE then there could be another within a year in which the Tories would sail in with a huge majority and Labour would be almost totally destroyed as a party.
So the conspiracy goes ......
Thoughts?
Dave
Are they deliberately trying to lose the GE so that the chickens come home to roost with Labour in power so they have to start to sort out their own mess for once? With a small majority at a a GE then there could be another within a year in which the Tories would sail in with a huge majority and Labour would be almost totally destroyed as a party.
So the conspiracy goes ......
Thoughts?
Dave
23 February 2010, 07:59 PM
#2
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this is quite interesting (only quite mind)
I remember in the 1992 election (I think the one with the famous Kinnock Sheffield speech) several top Tory grandees ruminating that it might be better to "loose this one"
the country was in an absolute shambles btw
and as history showed Major won (a surprise victory), with a much reduced majority -- which became slimmer slimmer as time went on
and the Tories really ran out of steam and energy (and authority) and were defeated in the Labour landslide of 1997 -- and have spent the last 13 years in the political wilderness
so maybe as the Grandees suggested, it might have tactically been better to hand labour the sh1tty stick in 1992 -and grabbed it back in 1997
but I don’t think politicians are able to give up the potential of power, no matter how tenuous (Brown a case in point) that easily
I remember in the 1992 election (I think the one with the famous Kinnock Sheffield speech) several top Tory grandees ruminating that it might be better to "loose this one"
the country was in an absolute shambles btw
and as history showed Major won (a surprise victory), with a much reduced majority -- which became slimmer slimmer as time went on
and the Tories really ran out of steam and energy (and authority) and were defeated in the Labour landslide of 1997 -- and have spent the last 13 years in the political wilderness
so maybe as the Grandees suggested, it might have tactically been better to hand labour the sh1tty stick in 1992 -and grabbed it back in 1997
but I don’t think politicians are able to give up the potential of power, no matter how tenuous (Brown a case in point) that easily
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 23 February 2010 at 08:01 PM.
23 February 2010, 09:24 PM
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The single, and only, reason that the Tories are not far in the distance is because people remember the Tory mess ..... the almighty mess that labour have taken 13 years to get on top off.
The top economists in the world state that Gordon Brown is absolutely spot-on in what he has done - and in the way he has led the world out of recession (even though it was far from the UK's fault!).
He is a statesman of the highest order - while the Eton Boyz just don't have a clue - and thank god most people are not idiots so can see it clearly!
23 February 2010, 10:19 PM
#5
Do I really need to go on?
Five or six years ago there was perhaps some room to say Labour were doing okay - to claim they're doing a good job now or that things are better now than in 1997 simply makes you look delusional.
23 February 2010, 10:28 PM
#6
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The single, and only, reason that the Tories are not far in the distance is because people remember the Tory mess ..... the almighty mess that labour have taken 13 years to get on top off.
The top economists in the world state that Gordon Brown is absolutely spot-on in what he has done - and in the way he has led the world out of recession (even though it was far from the UK's fault!).
He is a statesman of the highest order - while the Eton Boyz just don't have a clue - and thank god most people are not idiots so can see it clearly!
.... http://www.tes3d.com/renders/troll/troll.jpg .......
Dave
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23 February 2010, 10:58 PM
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Yes - we're in a far better situation now: still in one of the deepest recessions on record, 9 years into a war that there is very little political will to win, record low numbers of mortgages being approved which will simply allow the housing market to further stagnate, extremely low interest rates - penalising the prudent saver while doing next to nothing to control continually increasing inflation; fuel prices continue to soar, uncontrolled immigration, raising unemployment.......
Do I really need to go on?
Do I really need to go on?
Unemployment is DOWN
Crime is DOWN
Immigrants are leaving - not arriving!!
Temporary blip in inflation - that's GOOD, we were looking at a possible de-flation a few months ago!!!
Fuel prices rise - yes, as Oil is hiked up
House Prices held low to help the 1st time buyers - GOOD!!
You seem to have shot yourself well and truly in both feet, your head and your legs ...
23 February 2010, 11:31 PM
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When Labour took over in 97 they just continued with the Conservative Economic policy hence it being successful it all started to go wrong once Brown started to Tax and spend even if this time it was Stealth Tax
Just look at the Police State they have created and how many extra Civil Servants despite almost all services now being privatised!
Labour only now tax and spend we are heading back to the 1970's and the IMF will have to intervene again.
As for the Conservatives they elected a Tory copy of Tony Blair. There will be no new Tory policies until the last minute as the labour party just nick them.
Just look at the Police State they have created and how many extra Civil Servants despite almost all services now being privatised!
Labour only now tax and spend we are heading back to the 1970's and the IMF will have to intervene again.
As for the Conservatives they elected a Tory copy of Tony Blair. There will be no new Tory policies until the last minute as the labour party just nick them.
23 February 2010, 11:34 PM
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Only today the IMF have said that Labour, led by Gordon Brown have got it absolutely right .... and the Tories are bang off target and will plunge the UK into a depression!!!
24 February 2010, 01:45 AM
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Right. So with the current incumbents the most inept and corrupt government we have ever had, to put it mildly, why aren't the Tories 50 points clear in the polls? Even allowing for media bias, they could never hide that amount of disparity about voting intentions. We also have zero idea of policies from said Tories, no beating on Labour day after day for their ineptitude and corruption and almost comical scenes when the Tories do launch a *policy*, such as the married allowance fiasco.
Are they deliberately trying to lose the GE so that the chickens come home to roost with Labour in power so they have to start to sort out their own mess for once? With a small majority at a a GE then there could be another within a year in which the Tories would sail in with a huge majority and Labour would be almost totally destroyed as a party.
So the conspiracy goes ......
Thoughts?
Dave
Are they deliberately trying to lose the GE so that the chickens come home to roost with Labour in power so they have to start to sort out their own mess for once? With a small majority at a a GE then there could be another within a year in which the Tories would sail in with a huge majority and Labour would be almost totally destroyed as a party.
So the conspiracy goes ......
Thoughts?
Dave
Deliberately trying to lose the election....
24 February 2010, 07:47 AM
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As for it being a bit *loony* to think of the Tories wanting to lose deliberately, the thinking is that that would let Labour in to *fix* the mess they have made, the finance community would baulk, quite severely, at Flash and his mob continuing the policies that created the mess we're in, sterling and the rest of the UK economy would go t&ts up and people would finally see how little Labour are governing for the voters, rather than themselves to stay in power, and would finally trash them at the next polls.
And that does not state that the Tories would be any better.
As for SSU. Pete, if you made any sort of non-trolling point in reply to me I'd gladly answer it. However your 'Flash is the greatest world statesman ever' lines wear a little thin over time so don't take it personally when people ignore them.
Dave
24 February 2010, 09:19 AM
#14
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The single, and only, reason that the Tories are not far in the distance is because people remember the Tory mess ..... the almighty mess that labour have taken 13 years to get on top off.
The top economists in the world state that Gordon Brown is absolutely spot-on in what he has done - and in the way he has led the world out of recession (even though it was far from the UK's fault!).
He is a statesman of the highest order - while the Eton Boyz just don't have a clue - and thank god most people are not idiots so can see it clearly!
My post from your other thread:
In what way, Pete, did Brown lead the world back from the edge?
What has he actually done, that the Tories would not?
This isn't the first time I've asked you this question, although hopefully this time you won't run and hide from providing an answer
The global "financial crisis" has many causes. US sub prime lending is but one. Irresponsible lending across many economies is another. Human greed at all levels plays a massive part in the whole sorry state of affairs. From investment bankers to joe blogs in the street with his car/tv/carpet all on the never never, becasue he can't be arsed to save up first.
But to say that Governments are not in any way to blame is just wrong.
Ask yourself why some economies have weathered the storm better than others.
UK plc was pretty much bankrupt before the downturn. Had we been in a much better position before it all went wrong, we would have been in a much better position now.
Anyway, anyone with half an ounce of understanding knows that, so I'm looking forward to your answer with interest.
What has he actually done, that the Tories would not?
This isn't the first time I've asked you this question, although hopefully this time you won't run and hide from providing an answer
The global "financial crisis" has many causes. US sub prime lending is but one. Irresponsible lending across many economies is another. Human greed at all levels plays a massive part in the whole sorry state of affairs. From investment bankers to joe blogs in the street with his car/tv/carpet all on the never never, becasue he can't be arsed to save up first.
But to say that Governments are not in any way to blame is just wrong.
Ask yourself why some economies have weathered the storm better than others.
UK plc was pretty much bankrupt before the downturn. Had we been in a much better position before it all went wrong, we would have been in a much better position now.
Anyway, anyone with half an ounce of understanding knows that, so I'm looking forward to your answer with interest.
24 February 2010, 09:29 AM
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24 February 2010, 09:34 AM
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When I read your 2nd question, "What has Labour done that the Tories wouldn't have done?" ... I realised that you were not being serious and just trolling - so, ignored the rest of the drivel.
Because, as anyone with something between their ears knows, the Tories OPPOSED every single thing Labour did to get us out of the WORLDWIDE mess ..... and, it has been proved, quite overwhelmingly, that Labour got every call right ....................... Cameron and Osbourne, the Laurel and Hardy of the Political Stage, didn't have a clue!!
Thank god most of the country can see that!!
Because, as anyone with something between their ears knows, the Tories OPPOSED every single thing Labour did to get us out of the WORLDWIDE mess ..... and, it has been proved, quite overwhelmingly, that Labour got every call right ....................... Cameron and Osbourne, the Laurel and Hardy of the Political Stage, didn't have a clue!!
Thank god most of the country can see that!!
24 February 2010, 09:38 AM
#17
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When I read your 2nd question, "What has Labour done that the Tories wouldn't have done?" I thought, thank **** for that, I can falsely accuse DD of trolling (having had a quiet chuckle at the extreme irony of my own accusation) and use that as a lame excuse to yet again dodge the question that I have no answer for as I just make this crap up as I go along.
24 February 2010, 09:40 AM
#18
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So let me make it really simple, with nothing you can use as a smokescreen to yet again bail out of answering the question
In what way, Pete, did Brown lead the world back from the edge?
In what way he has led the world out of recession?
In what way, Pete, did Brown lead the world back from the edge?
In what way he has led the world out of recession?
24 February 2010, 10:15 AM
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I'm sorry but I would like Gordie and his cronies to go. If for no reason other than their opening the doors to floods of immigrants. Purely to try and change the social make up of the UK and retain power.
24 February 2010, 10:31 AM
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You have to look to the past in an honest fashion Pete, as well as to the future.
Flash took over a bouyant strong economy from the Conservatives in '97. The Conservatives got the economy back to a high level after the ERM mistake, which was backed by Labour incidentally, and it took 4 years of squandering for NL to destroy the economy. After that they overborrowed continuously in order to make the economy look strong when in fact it was very weak and the national debt was getting worse. By the time the present recession hit, aided by NL's love affair with the City and thus no effective regulation, we had nothing left in the kitty. So they have continued to borrow so that they can squander all that cash away too, and make things looks better than they really are with the election in mind. Our debts towards the bonds and the PFI which they have been using and our dreadful financial position will soon come home to roost and then watch the taxes hit the roof. They borrowed £10 billion in January alone at a time when usually there is no need to borrow anything at all with a normal economy!
You cannot possibly bury your head in the sand and tell us that a man who has achieved all this as well as signing the Lisbon "federation" agreement thus virually giveing us to the Eu without having a chance to say how we felt about it with a referendum as we were so "unfaithfully" promised by these traitorous clowns, is a great statesman.
They really have been taking the ****!
Les
Flash took over a bouyant strong economy from the Conservatives in '97. The Conservatives got the economy back to a high level after the ERM mistake, which was backed by Labour incidentally, and it took 4 years of squandering for NL to destroy the economy. After that they overborrowed continuously in order to make the economy look strong when in fact it was very weak and the national debt was getting worse. By the time the present recession hit, aided by NL's love affair with the City and thus no effective regulation, we had nothing left in the kitty. So they have continued to borrow so that they can squander all that cash away too, and make things looks better than they really are with the election in mind. Our debts towards the bonds and the PFI which they have been using and our dreadful financial position will soon come home to roost and then watch the taxes hit the roof. They borrowed £10 billion in January alone at a time when usually there is no need to borrow anything at all with a normal economy!
You cannot possibly bury your head in the sand and tell us that a man who has achieved all this as well as signing the Lisbon "federation" agreement thus virually giveing us to the Eu without having a chance to say how we felt about it with a referendum as we were so "unfaithfully" promised by these traitorous clowns, is a great statesman.
They really have been taking the ****!
Les
Last edited by Leslie; 24 February 2010 at 10:34 AM.
24 February 2010, 10:32 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by Devildog (about an hour ago)
So let me make it really simple, with nothing you can use as a smokescreen to yet again bail out of answering the question
In what way, Pete, did Brown lead the world back from the edge?
In what way he has led the world out of recession?
In what way, Pete, did Brown lead the world back from the edge?
In what way he has led the world out of recession?
And, true to form, SSU runs and hides again
Last edited by Devildog; 24 February 2010 at 10:36 AM.
24 February 2010, 10:38 AM
#22
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You have to look to the past in an honest fashion Pete, as well as to the future.
Flash took over a bouyant strong economy from the Conservatives in '97. The Conservatives got the economy back to a high level after the ERM mistake, which was backed by Labour incidentally, and it took 4 years of squandering for NL to destroy the economy. After that they overborrowed continuously in order to make the economy look strong when in fact it was very weak and the national debt was getting worse. By the time the present recession hit, aided by NL's love affair with the City and thus no effective regulation, we had nothing left in the kitty. So they have continued to borrow so that they can squander all that cash away too, and make things looks better than they really are with the election in mind. Our debts towards the bonds and the PFI which they have been using and our dreadful financial position will soon come home to roost and then watch the taxes hit the roof. They borrowed £10 billion in January alone at a time when usually there is no need to borrow anything at all with a normal economy!
You cannot possibly bury your head in the sand and tell us that a man who has achieved all this as well as signing the Lisbon "federation" agreement thus virually giveing us to the Eu without having a chance to say how we felt about it with a referendum as we were so "unfaithfully" promised by these traitorous clowns, is a great statesman.
They really have been taking the ****!
Les
Flash took over a bouyant strong economy from the Conservatives in '97. The Conservatives got the economy back to a high level after the ERM mistake, which was backed by Labour incidentally, and it took 4 years of squandering for NL to destroy the economy. After that they overborrowed continuously in order to make the economy look strong when in fact it was very weak and the national debt was getting worse. By the time the present recession hit, aided by NL's love affair with the City and thus no effective regulation, we had nothing left in the kitty. So they have continued to borrow so that they can squander all that cash away too, and make things looks better than they really are with the election in mind. Our debts towards the bonds and the PFI which they have been using and our dreadful financial position will soon come home to roost and then watch the taxes hit the roof. They borrowed £10 billion in January alone at a time when usually there is no need to borrow anything at all with a normal economy!
You cannot possibly bury your head in the sand and tell us that a man who has achieved all this as well as signing the Lisbon "federation" agreement thus virually giveing us to the Eu without having a chance to say how we felt about it with a referendum as we were so "unfaithfully" promised by these traitorous clowns, is a great statesman.
They really have been taking the ****!
Les
24 February 2010, 11:55 AM
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24 February 2010, 12:08 PM
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If you do go on you will look more and more silly - so, no, please don't.
Unemployment is DOWN
Crime is DOWN
Immigrants are leaving - not arriving!!
Temporary blip in inflation - that's GOOD, we were looking at a possible de-flation a few months ago!!!
Fuel prices rise - yes, as Oil is hiked up
House Prices held low to help the 1st time buyers - GOOD!!
You seem to have shot yourself well and truly in both feet, your head and your legs ...
Unemployment is DOWN
Crime is DOWN
Immigrants are leaving - not arriving!!
Temporary blip in inflation - that's GOOD, we were looking at a possible de-flation a few months ago!!!
Fuel prices rise - yes, as Oil is hiked up
House Prices held low to help the 1st time buyers - GOOD!!
You seem to have shot yourself well and truly in both feet, your head and your legs ...
when have you known of any immigrants going home.
and the petrol prices are due to TAX mate not the price of the fuel itself.
we are all being taxed into poverty.
just my ten pence worth and i aint sayin it will be any different whoever comes into power on our misserable little island.
24 February 2010, 01:02 PM
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Gormless Buffoon hasn't led anyone out of anything yet.....
World leader ? More like Dougie Bader spiralling out of the sky in flames.
Once "we" can't even afford an internet connection we will lose our freedom of speech, even on S'net.
dunx
World leader ? More like Dougie Bader spiralling out of the sky in flames.
Once "we" can't even afford an internet connection we will lose our freedom of speech, even on S'net.
dunx
24 February 2010, 01:26 PM
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The street you live in is on fire, the flames are about to completely destroy your home, the flames are already leaping up the walls.
There is a Fire Engine with everything needed to stop the fire getting worse - it has run out of petrol at the end of the road.
You have no money, you have spent that on fire alarms and buckets of water.
Someone is selling 1 gallon of petrol - but you need to borrow a lot to get it.
If you borrow it will save your home, and in doing so - will show the other street residents what they need to do .... buy petrol to get the Fire Engine to their homes too.
Do you borrow to save your home?
You're dead right you do!!! And look at how to pay the loan back after the fire threat has been lifted .......
And that, my friend, is the question you need to answer.
Add to your understanding the fact that the Tories said, "Let the street burn-do nothing!!"
Once the realisation of what happened becomes clear ... as it is gradually doing with the general public ... then the tide will sweep Labour to another 5 years of stewardship.
Don't get me wrong, I will NOT be voting Labour - they stitched me up - but, everyone with more than one brain cell can see that the Tories are simply unelectable ... they just haven't a clue!!
And it's a shame there is no viable opposition or choice!
24 February 2010, 01:28 PM
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24 February 2010, 01:32 PM
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Not defending them, but this tax myth regarding fuel is just not true.
There have been some tax rises, but the majority is greed by the fuel companies and a government/population with no spine to fight the price hikes.
In the same time frame petrol prices in Australia for instance have hardly increased at all.
24 February 2010, 01:36 PM
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I was going to mention that the fuel Tax myth is simply that ... but my keyboard was on fire typing the previous post
To think that higher fuel prices is due to only Tax shows us that sometimes people just cannot see the truth as they have closed their eyes.
To think that higher fuel prices is due to only Tax shows us that sometimes people just cannot see the truth as they have closed their eyes.