alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Yes Pete, You have

dazzaturbo

just where in the govournment do you work

Devildog

I do indeed have a job Pete. No pain and anger here, just amusement at calling you out, again

I've made it simple, and yet still you chose to avoid the question

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Although I did like having a good old pop and Pete every now and then, I have to say that I think he is spot on. The 'popular' thing to say at the moment is that Labour are ****e. Such an easy thing to say but it is said by far too many people that read the tabloids!

WE ARE IN A WORLD RECESSION. If we were to have been immune to it's effects, then the country would have gone to the wall a long time ago by breaking all ties with the outside world. You want to vote Tory? Go ahead.

Maybe I am lucky, but apart from my property falling in value (they always have had their ups and downs you know!) I haven't felt the recession at all. Yes, work is a little slower than it was (work in the marine engineering sector) but it is still out there.

So from my point of view, Labour have done well for not letting the recession effect me and my way of living. I bet many those slagging labour off are not looking at it from the same angle.

The NHS however is another story. My old man has had several strokes over the past five years and now suffers with epilepsy pretty much on a day to day basis. So we have had to visit our local A&E department more times than I care to remember. The quality of service and care varies so much it is scary. Having to ask the same nurse three times for a sodding bed pan is just not on. Her excuse was that she had too much paper work to do! Then you get told things like, ' Oh, we can't access hospital records over the weekend as the people in that department only work Monday to Friday.'

The worst experience I had was when my Dad was in so much distress and we just wanted them to give him something for the pain. The 'doctor' looked at my mum and I and said, I kid you not, 'What do you want me to do?' No surprise that the doctor was dismissed from the hospital within two weeks.

The NHS is a black hole and you will never have enough money to fund it, but I think they have severally lossed their focus over recent years. To be honest, I would rather scrap the NHS and use the money I save in taxes to pay for private health care/insurance, as the Americans do. If you are lazy and don't work, so be it, but you will not receive any state funded care.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

And what of those who aren't lazy, and would LOVE to work, but have none?
Or those who worked all their lives and have a small pension to live on now?
Or the children of those who, "are lazy and don't work"?

I think you are the one guilty of reading the tabloids, Chris.

There are LOADS here up north who would give their right arms for steady work, but there is none.
What do THEY do?

Devildog

Chris,

So you would agree that Brown has lead the world back from the edge, that he has led the world out of recession?

That's the world, Chris, not just England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Because that's what Pete is continually spouting as the reason that Brown is so deserving of our adulation.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Move!

I see your point but when you see the amount of time wasters in A&E, all receiving treatment for alcohol abuse or falling over whilst pissed, your views would change. Then there is my old man who has just had another stroke sitting in the corner for 3 hours whilst they clear the back log of pissheads. Ok, maybe it wouldn't be a good idea to scrap the NHS due to the country becoming very attached to it. But, it isn't a 'god given right' to recieve medical care and yet so many people think it is. Time wasters should be charged for their treatment. Surely that would be fair?

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

No he isn't. He is saying that they did what was best for our country. The tories said it would have done nothing. Go figure.
Everyone gets so wound up by Pete and I really don't know why. You all seem to have the problem, not him.

Everyone is so touchy these days.

Devildog

Oh, and Chris, many of those slagging Labour off are looking at the bigger picture - not just how we've bumbled our way through thus far, but what we are going to do to get out of the current situation and how best to make sure its not so bad next time.

How to strengthen our economy over time, not weaken it.

Devildog

Wrong

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Yes and I completely agree at looking at the bigger picture. But if the banks had all gone bankrupt and all your money vanished over night, I don't think you would have been too happy would you?
I do agree though that banks need be looked at far more carefully than they have been. I see the banks being at fault for all this. Yes, you could argue that people shouldn't have borrowed so much but they wouldn't have been able to 20 or 30 years ago. If you wanted a loan for a new car, you had to have a meeting with the bank manager. Now I get a pre-approved credit card with a 10k limit fall through my door every week!

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Well having not followed his posts a closely as you, I apologise.

But I think I'd call that sarcasm my friend.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Ah............now that's a whole different barrel of fish, (sorry for the mixed whatnots).

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly: you MAKE yourself ill, you pay up front, smoking, drugs, alcohol, stupid sports injuries, all pay extra. Or get insurance.

The same for people who get rescued by emergency services after going mountain climbing, potholing, yachting etc: get insurance, or pay up.

But that's NOT the same as saying those that can't pay, can't have.

SunnySideUp

I work for the pointed dangerous end ..... but private

SunnySideUp

You should know, therefore, that I cannot post while working .... you clearly have a job where you don't have to do much?

Anyway, yes - you made it simple .....

Have Labour rescued the UK? YES.

Have the rest of the world followed Labours lead? YES.

Were the Tories advocating another solution? YES.

Would the Tory solution have worked? NO.

Did the Tories vote against every single economic rescue plan? YES.

Do the Tories know what they are doing? NO.

Should the Tories be elected whilst the recession is ending? NO.

There you go.

hodgy0_2

yet you say that you will not vote labour - why is that?

if its too personal then don't feel the need to reply

SunnySideUp

Don't mind sharing it - the Tories gave me a copper bottomed guarantee on my Pension, the Tories stated that my Pension would remain as good throughout my life as it was when I signed a new agreement with the Government, and this they honoured.

Like all Pension Funds, the Pension has taken a hit, due in no small part to Brown stealing from the funds!! ... the current Government could have honoured my copper bottomed agreement and kept my Pension as it was, it would have cost very little to have secured my Pension - the Labour Government walked away from that agreement.

That's why I doubt I will vote Labour again ...... they walked away from an agreement which was created by a Tory Government - They have seriously hurt me financially, now and for the rest of my life.

So, there you have it.

However, I am intelligent enough to see what they have done to turn the economy around. They could have got it badly wrong - they didn't and need applauding for that.

The Tories went against every policy that labour put forward - they called it wrong, they got it all wrong, they would have destroyed the country. And they should not be allowed their hands on the economy - they are incompetent.

But I must vote - many millions of people died so I may have a free vote - I owe it to them to vote, for whom I do not know yet.

Devildog

Pete,

Thanks for the reply, Unfortunately the bits of any relevance in relation to supporting your assertion that Brown "sorted the world out" are entirely subjective and without any evidence to back them up. Nothing more than your opinion, in fact, and therefor of no value.

Have labour rescued the UK - who knows? Are you seriously trying to tell me that the Toryies would, if in the same position, let the banks collapse? That event is unfathomable irrespective of what party you are sitting in.

Hhave the rest of world followed? Again, who knows. Maybe Brown knicked his plan from someone else.

Again, your point is 99% your opinion and without anything to back it up.

Try again..

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Think about how they handled the ERM and then ask yourself that question again?

Leslie

Entering the ERM was indeed a gross error, didn't Labour fully back that at the time though?

Les

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I was thinking more of the end and them endlessly chucking the country's reserves at it to try and avoid a loss of face when everyone else knew it was a lost cause and we would have to pull out of it.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Yes, shameful, they probably lost about 10% of what Sh*t Brown lost when he sold half our gold reserves at their lowest ever price, after TELLING everyone about a week before he was going to do it.

One wonders how much his cronies made?

Martin2005

Hmm not sure that can be true

ERM resulted in an absolutely horrendous recession and a collapse in house prices, and all the misery and hardship that arrose from that, if you cash up the overall cost it's hundrens of billions!!

Selling the gold off cheap, as you so wisely stated (with all the power of hindsight) cost us some numbers on the balance sheet.

I think it would be nice to read a balanced post on this subject from you and Les.

Martin2005

Yes Labour did back ERM, therefore it's clearly all their fault

Leslie

Did I actually say that Martin? Wouldn't what I said be more likely to mean that although it was the wrong thing to do as Major found out the hard way, Labour supporters are not in a position to criticise as though they had advised against it!

Looks like you have both jumped with all four feet again!

Les

Martin2005

I can't talk for Labour supporters Les, just as you can't.

I assume using this logic anyone who voted Tory cannot critise the decision to go to war in Iraq?

I cannot understand your reasoning when you state that the Tories created this wonderful economy post ERM, it just isn't true. The economy recovered from their appalling mismanagement. It's hardly something they can take any credit for is it? The money markets and George Soros and fellwo currency speculators should be credited before the Tories

hodgy0_2

thanks for the candid reply ssup

and i appreciate that you feel shafted re your pension, but surely if you believe, as you seem to, that Labour are working to make the UK better for the majority not the few you are being a tad churlish withholding your vote on purely selfish grounds

I won’t vote Labour again on deeply held moral issues, not withstanding the fact that I would undoubtedly be better off financially under the Tories (I will never vote Tory btw)

SunnySideUp

The only thing I hold that can 'hit back' at Labour for them tearing up my agreement is my vote ... yes, I know it will make not one jot of difference, but it is all I can do.

I would be much better off under the Tories, of that there is no doubt, but they will **** on the poor and helpless ... and I cannot condone that so I may profit.

Leslie

The economy recovered while they were in power so they must have been responsible for that.

IDS supported the attack on Iraq because in common with everyone else, he had been told lies about the situation by Billy Liar and his cohorts. It was wrong to support it of course but hardly surprising.

Les

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

If all these people are not voting for either labour or tory, who the **** are they going to vote for? Monster Raving Loony Party? Was always my preferred option at school!