Diesel

Considering doing one of these project management 5 day courses (foundation & practicioner) and wondered if they are worth the grand and 5 days of your time? Anyone done one?

Thx

D

OllyK

If you want a career in PM then Prince2 is the qualification that is usually asked for. As to whether it's worth a grand investment, only you can decide that.

scoob_babe

I did Prince2 all in one go. It has been useful for some aspects of current job but it was really done as a safety net in case I wanted to change jobs which want proof that I am capable of managing projects.

MattW

yup, I'm Prince2 Qualified. My wrist has just recovered from the 18 sides of A4 written during the exam 2 years ago. What do you want to know?

Edited to say, basic prereq for any PM jobs, but also very useful if a tech consultant managing your own delivery especially if contracting.

scoob_babe

The practitioner exam is no longer a 3 hour 20 side marathon - it changed format in July 2007

monotokpoint

I completed this a few years back. I would only do the practitioner exam if you are relatively experienced in project management. It's good to have for the CV and Prince is always useful as a base methodology, but to be perfectly honest, the course is only designed for you to learn the syllabus to pass the exam at the end. I wouldn't take it if you are looking to learn the methodology from scratch.

scoob_babe

Spot on! It doesn't tell you how to manage people, budgets etc, just the P2 concepts of PM

SiDHEaD

I did this last july with a view to changing job and struggled badly with the practicioner bit (passed foundation no problem) as I didnt have the PM experience.

MattW

bah must be a sinch now!

scoob_babe

Seems like it - I haven't seen any past papers. I was warned to get an ergonomic pen when I did it in summer 06!

MattW

Vampire

I did it in April 2007, was pretty hard going but not too bad if you're reasonably bright - as long as you can keep from falling asleep or switching off.

I'm questioning if it was worth it, hard to say at the moment as I'm still enjoying my redundancy.

Scoobydiid

I have met a few PM's with Prince 2 who can hardly manage to find their ar$e with both hands, and some without who I could trust with anything.

davyboy

I've done it and like has been said above, I found the practitioner part very difficult. To be fair I was in London on expenses and found the lure of nights out a bit hard to resist.

I don't think it's worth doing to learn about project management, but if it's something your organisation is going to adopt then go for it. If you are the only one adopting it....it won't work.

Diesel

Thanks for the responses guys.

Especially leading on from the previous post, is it system of working you can implement when you join a company, and get others to follow this workflow/method of working? I.e. can you use this knowledge to help you more effectively and efficiently manage a project that involves several team members (who may think that Prince 2 is the purple prancer's new album)!?

D

MattW

Yes, it is a structure (methodology) to follow. I would suggest team leaders/managers do at least the Foundation part. PMs do the full lot.

I find the risk/issue part especially useful, however it won't teach you when/how to produce reports, use MS Project, plan, budget for, etc etc.

noobyscooby

I've been a PM for 20 years. PRINCE2 is s*it - 35 functions recording the project management side and only 1 where something actually gets done says it all.

Its complete and utter tommy rot, yet people want to see it on CVs.

So I did it and binned it. Any really competent PM does the job without this cr*p and I work for government saving millions upon millions of taxpayers money so I DO know what I'm talking about.

I see consultants coming in, charging up to £3,000 per day and they couldn't wipe their own a*ses let alone deliver anything on time and within budget. They think that by having "a system" and PMO [programme management office] and sending loads of emails all day somehow gets things get done. They don't. Good old fashioned shoe leather used up walking round the patch and talking to people over a coffee gets things done.

So do PRINCE2, and forget it.

davyboy

No offence, but if you were any good at project management you'd not have been stuck working for the government for 20 years

SJ_Skyline

About half of my project managers have Prince2, I use them on projects where the contract has a requirement for Prince2 compliance.

Blended delivery models - that's the key

Vampire

That's the main reason I did it, people like to see it on CVs apparently. I did get the impression that a lot of it was self-justification of PMs, i.e. creating lots of paperwork and meetings to make yourself look more important than you actually are. I mean calling bits of paperwork "management products" and comparing them with the actual stuff the project is making (electronics, software, cars etc.) is a bit of a pi$$ take IMO, taking corporate buzz-words one step further.

But on the positive note there was a lot of useful stuff in there too, or I thought so anyway.

davyboy

This is almost quote of 2008 so far.

Of course the government have such a great track record with IT projects

Sex offender system £65million, 3 years later and nothing.
National gun database - 11years late
Child Support Agency system £456m

SJ_Skyline

Dave,

Lest we forget:

ILA - £273m
National Air Traffic Control - £623m
Tax Credits - £1.6Bn
NHS IT modernisation programme - £12bn
Magistrates Courts overhaul - £134m
Smart Cards for Benefits - £698m

Diesel

I see a niche! Prince with IT on the side. I can get that NHS e-mail thingy up

Quite mixed responses - typical of courses IMHO. I did a (dont laugh) charismatic leadership one dayer recently (stop tittering!). One guy walked off but I learnt to say 'and' instead of 'but'! We also had a nice lunch, so all in all a winner

I think people may incorporate bits and bobs from courses on a more sub-conscious level. It may help form their procedure or methodology if not outright dictating it in a word for word manner?

D

noobyscooby

Are you on £1500 a day? Hmm, thought not. Cheers!

noobyscooby

Unfortunately I only get called in when these things are in the Sh*t, so I knock heads together and either stop them or fix them. Trouble is the procurement thickheads keep getting the same big companies back to **** it up in the first place! Amazing really that they never learn!!

KiwiGTI

Not just the same companies, but in many cases they will TUPE all the same staff over who caused the mess.

As for the comment about working for the government - there's a lot of money to be made working for public organisations, I'm at a bank now and they rates are a lot lower than the last place I was at which was government. They are also more recession proof.