Jaybird-UK

From the clip I saw this morning I reckon worth a watch!

SJ_Skyline

Wonder if they'll have the clip of PSL driving his shopmobility chariot the wrong way up the A46?

The Zohan

Having been the victim myself - good for her!

I was hit (nearly head on) by an old boy who's front screen misted over. Instead of pulling over because he could not see (by his own admission) he carried on driving and wiping at the same time.

I managed to swerve to avoid hitting head on , he took the side off of the scoob (7K's worth of work) and left me with a damaged sciatic(sp?) nerve.

Jenny's car was backed into in Tescos a while back by an old boy who just did not see her (by his own admission) good jonb that no-one was between the cars at the time, she could not move as she was between two other cars, she hit the horn, he just kept on coming and ran into her!


Lot to be said for tests for over 65's and repeated every few years, even is just eyesight, hand/eye coordination and reaction tests.

little rick

Blimey Paul - thats a bit of bad luck mate

Not been the victim of but know a number of incidents where lack of attention, ability, judgement etc due to age have caused problems. Including a three story building having a whole side rebuilt as an old boy in an automatic got the wrong gear, shot over a footpath (thank god no one on it) over some flower beds and into the wall - estimated speed by the police at impact - about 35mph


Totally agree - and how about tests for mobility scooters? - similar to CBT to check they can control them but nothing overkill?
Had a friend who got his foot run over by one and broke 3 bones in it
yet mini moto's that everyone rants about - I was nearly hit by my 12 year old neighbour - his reactions were quick enough that he ditched it into the kirb rather than me

SWRTWannabe

Look on the bright side - if an old boy does crash into you, the chances are he isn't going to leg it like some young ****** that's joyriding. Every cloud has a silver lining

Iain Young

On the other hand, I've seen exactly the same bad standards of driving from new drivers, drivers in their 30's etc.

Unless they get too frail, I personally don't think age has much to do with it. A bad driver is a bad driver regardless of how old they are...

The Zohan

It is not that black and white.

Older people are more likely to have problems with eyesight, reflexes/reaction times and coordination than younger drivers so this should be considered.

Iain, who judges if they are too frail, do we just wait until they crash or worse or do we act proactively and set a standard that they have to meet or exceed.

SJ_Skyline

Paul, A doctor can judge and indeed, take a license away if they deem the individual too infirm.

Why, however should it just be the old and frail? I'd support a move to bring in driving licenses like passports, having to have a re-test every 10 years or so, perhaps shortening this to 5 years over the age of 70. Of course this would be badly thought out by the government and put forwards as a new stealth tax which would hurt those on lower incomes.

Iain Young

It's a tricky subject. I just don't think that age should be the only factor to be taken into consideration. For example, who judges whether younger people are healthy enough to drive. I know a few people intheir 30s/40s who have bad eyesight which I would consider dangerous for driving. Yet they still do it.

On the flip side, I know a few 80+ year olds who are excellent drivers (one was still doing track days and classic car races until a year ago).

What about mental health? There's countless drivers out there who constantly take stupid risks, overtaking around blind bends, endangering the lives of other road users etc. Nobody with a mentality like that should be allowed behind the wheel of potentially lethal weapon either.

It's not just about age...

Leslie

I wonder why the insurance companies, with all the statistics that you could wish for, always charge younger drivers such high premiums in comparison with the older drivers!

I regret to see this kind of ageism over drivers all the time by younger drivers especially when they drive considerably faster and have far worse accidents when thsy do get it all wrong. Such as driving a Porker into an elderly couple and killing them!

Older drivers tend to drive more slowly to stay within their capabilities and if the younger drivers find that irritating then that is just hard luck since there is no law against driving within the speed limits since the roads were built in the first place to enable people to drive their cars from place to place without treating them like a race track.

The younger drivers should also remember that any restrictions that they want to see placed on the older drivers will eventually apply to them as well and that might just be very inconvenient!

Anyone can make a mistake while driving, I can't believe anyone here can say that they are blameless in that respect and I also doubt very much that the older drivers are any more likely to have a serious accident than anyone else.

Les

Jaybird-UK

Older drivers drive less than those in other age groups. The rate of motor vehicle crashes per mile driven is higher for the 70-plus age group than for middle-aged drivers, but only after the age of 85 does it reach or surpass the rate for younger drivers. However, older people are, unsurprisingly, over-represented in accidents involving death because of their increased frailty. They drive more slowly than other drivers and they cannot handle traffic conflict situations very well. The 60 to 69-year-old age group have a higher percentage of accidents at junctions in both rural and urban settings. They drive less at night due to deteriorating eyesight, and they have to be closer to signs to be able to read them.

Leslie

Do you have statistics for all that-It would be interesting to see.

Les

Jaybird-UK

Here is the source Les, scroll to the bottom. Im guessing being a Parliament site the information is correct.

House of Commons Hansard Debates for 15 Mar 2006 (pt 40)

The Zohan

And this assumes the doctor sees the person in the first place.
I am allfor test every 10 years. However. regular restests on the over 70's will not effect good drivers, just dangerous ones which has to be a good thing.

I do not think you go as far as a complet test
Response times
Eyesight
Coordination and motor function woiould be enough for a basic test, more if there are concerns

RichWalk

on a lighter note? an ex of mine kindly drove me on many ocassions, including holidays to Devon & Cornwall, after a few near misses and the fact I just couldnt relax with her driving I asked (she wore really strong glasses)if she was very nervous about driving? "not at all she replied, I just cant see properly, even with glasses"

little rick

Now thats scary - I wear glasses for driving simply because I'm border line - Doctors are the only ones who say you have to wear glasses to drive and states that I am legal without them but for my own and everyone elses safety dont take the risk

To think some people out there driving have poorer eyesight wearing glasses than me without really is a worrying thought

Back to the doctor thing - when was the last time you went to the doctor for something and they asked if you drived (excluding if they are prescribing something that may hinder you're ability)?

Add into that the changes in cars, roads and amount of vehicles on the road I say refresher courses and tests for everyone - just watch out for some form of taxation on it if it ever does happen

IainCam

I watched the program and some of the old folk shown were still good enough drivers. I know that my granda was still driving in his 80's and it was him who decided to stop driving, not that he wasn't still a good driver but another neighbour of his died at the wheel and crashed off the road, with his daughter in the pax seat... luckily she was okay. Was around the time my wife was carrying our 2nd child and he just decided that he wouldn't want to die or take ill at the wheel and possibly kill someone coming the other way so he stopped.

TBH, I'd be in favour of driving tests having to be re-taken every 10 years for EVERYONE 'cos I've seen plenty of younger people who shouldn't have been behind the wheel. Would also say that over 70's should have to prove they can still pass the test every 3 to 5 years as well if they want to continue driving. If you can still do it it's no hardship.

Apparition

Well said Les. And yes, we will ALL be OLD one day, godwilling.
Yve

Hoppy

It's not as simple as age, and taking away somebody's driving license is a huge blow for them. It is also true that older drivers are not the main killers, for whatever reason.

I had to take the keys away from my mother a couple of years ago. She was 81 and I had just sat in with her for an eye test. Even with specs, she was marginal on the number plate reading test. She then said to me "why should I want to read anyone's number plate on the way to the shops?"

After that, we gave her car to my niece. Niece very happy, mother much prefers to be chaufered around anyway, just not too convenient for me But on balance, I'm relieved of the worry. Right decision

Richard.

Leslie

Thank you Jaybird-interesting reading but not really conclusive I think.

Thanks also Yve, yes it is worth thinking ahead about the consequences to the more elderly having their licences taken away purely on the basis of age when it may well be their only means of transport, especially in the country.

I even know a man of 74 who races MGBs and regularly beats many of the younger competitors

Les

SiPie

As I've previously mentioned on here, my old man's just over 70, suffers from Parkinsons disease, drives a BMW 335i and a Mazda MX5 (though not at the same time) and has just been granted an extension to his driving license. I’ve defended him in the past…….but not so certain as the months pass by and his health continues to fail

He says he ‘knows the days when he isn’t fit to drive’ but I reckon there are around 365 of those every year

No way I would ever get in the car with him and it sends shivers up my spine when he tells me about some of his ‘spirited driving jaunts, overtaking things well over 100mph on the straight near where he lives etc etc

God only knows how the doc managed to approve an extension to his license

corradoboy

A great idea in theory, but when you consider that there are 30 million drivers on the roads, if they were to be retested every 10 years that would be 3 million tests per year, on top of the 2.1m they already carry out through the 1889 examiners. That would require a significant increase in personnel and resources.
I do however agree with retesting at around 70, and if not a short retest every 5 years or so, then maybe have their GP's approval required on each renewal application, possibly including a relevent medical examination testing eyesight and reaction.
As for the general driving standards on the roads today, I feel the attitude and policy to traffic enforcement has left us without effective policing. The reliance on cameras for the single offence of speeding and the redeployment of traffic officers, along with those left backing up on the misguided speed issue means nobody ever seems to be brought to task for blatant poor driving any more. Paltry fines and mostly irrelevent (until you have nine) points breed arrogance and apathy in the driving public. I would like to see an increase in well trained traffic police who are able to issue minor financial penalty to cover the cost of the pull, but back that up with compulsory driver training orders, requiring a minimum of 6 hours with an ADI to rectify the fault witnessed. It is highly likely that during the tuition the ADI may identify and correct many more errors and bad habits, possibly preventing future accidents, thus improving driving standards.

Leslie

One point worth making is that younger drivers seem to assume that as soon as someone passes the age of 50 something automatically happens to make them incapable of coping with life and that they have to be regarded as dangerous when it comes to controlling machinery etc.

That is a totally wrong attitude to take and people are well capable of driving quite safely well into old age. They may well drive more slowly but so what-they are entitled to do that.

If you say they should be taken off the road because they sometimes have accidents, then you must say that also for all the younger drivers who screw up because of their inexperience and brash behaviour by trying to do something in a car that they do not know is actually possible anyway, or the somewhat older drivers who become overbearing and overconfident and a similar dander to others.

Les

Hoppy

Do you need to give older people a full driving test just to check their ability? Train drivers have to take a psychometric test (I think it's called) on a simulator which assesses observation, reaction and cordination. Takes just a few minutes.

But young people are undoubedly a much higher risk. I don't know how you get them to drive sensibly. My kids have both attended tragic funerals of school friends (x4 I think) and plenty more have had very near misses.

Richard.