Big-G

I sold an item on eBay for £60 and the buyer paid by PayPal.
I sent the item off by 1st class post and obtained a Certificate of Posting from the P.O.
I got positive feedback and sent positive feedback.
All hunky-dorey, a perfect transaction......until I received an email from PayPal saying that the £60 was being removed from my account.
I went through the hassle of trying to get the 'reason why' out of PayPal and they finally told me that the buyer had paid with fraudulent funds!
They asked me for some more info about the deal and sent me an email back saying that they had paid the funds back to the buyer!
I was not covered by their Sellers Protection Policy because I could not provide a tracking number.
Needless to say the buyer is not responding to emails

I have learned a lesson from this and would like to warn other sellers of the danger via PayPal of getting your funds removed after the transaction is completed..

.

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

what do they count as fraudulent funds? what was the guys user name so we can all avoid using him again?

Nick

We always try to check our buyers carefully. What was his feedback like, how long had he been registered & where was he located?

Warwick-hunt

thanks for the warning, you have proof of posting and + feedback was left so they should have understood you acted in good faith and done everything correctly

w@nkers

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Sometimes it really does make you wonder if it is worth all the bother using eBay.

I still cannot believe we have a system that allows you to see funds in your account, and then just have them removed at a whim by your bank/Paypal. Its their job to make sure they are not accepting fraudulent money, not yours

Big-G

PayPal would not explain any further about 'fraudulent funds', I guess it was credit card related.

I can't name and shame him because of pending civil action.

Here is the item number on eBay for those wanting to see what I sold.
6002968337.

No doubt there are other sellers to this buyer going through this experience.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Hmmm, civil action. Good luck with that. If you are taking on Paypal it will be a fight, if you are taking on the buyer I hope he owns a house. If not, he is just likely to move on, as he will have done this to a few other people.

ben44

Jesus, I looked at what he's been buying. Thats one fooking big trainset he's building!!

Scooby Soon!

Its not worth civil action, it will cost you £100s more, even to take some one to the small claims court. It does explain in Paypal T&C's that you must use a trackable service BUT even if you do this Paypal can and will take the money anyway!

Best thing is to do is claim off Royal Mail for the "Lost" parcel (you will get £30) as it has in theory been lost.

Nick

Thanks for the heads up with this. Checking his feedback, this user looks very suspect. He has bought over 100 items in one month. He has not sold anything & only started buying in September. If you haven't already, you need to contact every other seller & check their situation - it will help your case. Was his address Paypal verified? If so, you are protected by Paypal, if not - you have a big problem. You also need to inform Ebay.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

It does not have to cost you anything to take someone to the small claims court (apart from the £30 fee to lodge the claim). You can even do all the early parts online.

I took someone to court, total cost to me was £30 in fees, a few recorded delivery letters, and some petrol to get to court. I won, and got all my fees paid for, including mileage.

I did take a non limited company to court though. As they still wanted to continue trading, they could not go into hiding. That was the only reason I got my money, I even had to send in the baliffs Was worth it though

Scooby Soon!

You are not protected with Paypal! Trust me!

Best to just claim on the insurance and move on!

Nezz10

Remove funds from you paypal account as soon as they get there that way they cannot nick anything. The other way is to use a normal account not premier, that will only allow funds from current paypal balances to be accepted and you dont get charged for accepting money.

They put you off using this method by making it take ages for funds to get in to user accounts.

Freak

Always always always send registered/trackable

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Is using a normal Paypal account really a viable way of trading on eBay. One thing that really gets to me are the Paypal fees, they are just too high.

What are all the disadvantages to using a normal account for limited trading?

Big-G

eBay are 'investigating' my complaint.

Info from PayPal about confirmed addresses.

"What is a Confirmed Address?
A buyer's Confirmed Address is checked against the credit card billing address maintained by his or her credit card company.

How is address confirmation useful?
Address confirmation is useful because it provides a way for a seller to verify a buyer's identity. Postage to a confirmed address, however, is not a requirement for coverage under the Seller Protection Policy since not all PayPal users are able to confirm their addresses. If a transaction is eligible for coverage under the Seller Protection Policy, a seller must post to the address found on the Transaction Details page (regardless of whether that address is confirmed or not). For transactions that are ineligible for coverage under the Seller Protection Policy, we recommend that a seller posts to a buyer's Confirmed Address."

It seems that buyers and sellers only have a leg to stand on if you get a trackable number.

I have sold nearly 2000 items and never encountered this problem before. I sell regularly to many countries around the world (including Taiwan) and have only had one or two non payers, they are not a problem because you still have the goods and you can get your eBay fees back.
I will be changing my terms of sale to state that all invoices paid by PayPal, the items must be sent by Recorded or Special delivery.

"Learn and move on"

Scooby Soon!

BIG-G,

As long as you know that even if you get a confirmed address and use a trackable delivery method, the money is still not 100% guranteed!

If you have a powerseller account, go to the forum and search for "Paypal chargeback" you will see many people who have used a trackable method and a confirmed/verified address but still lost the money.

Nezz10,

If you remove the money and Paypal charge it back to your account your balance will be -£xx.xx you have 30 days to put the money before the solicitors letters arrive, then they send the baliffs! (its all in the T and C's)

Luminous,
Some one tried to take me to small claims court and they had to pay nearly £200 before they finally gave up. because if the person you are serving the notice on contestes it (I did) then they have to pay a further charge and so on and on.
Never heard of it being done for £30?

Spoon

Try the same but put in 'Small claims' and you will get www.moneyclaim.gov.uk

PayPal is as iffy as your customers are. Honest customers = fantastic system.

Keep on to PayPal as I had £600 removed for a 'fraudulent transaction' it was merely a mix up between my customer and her bank. The money was returned to me within 10 days so it's not necessarily all bad.

Ring your buyer too, if not get onto that website.

GC8

There is a growing trend for what is called 'Cyber-Shoplifting'. Essentially you buy something and then claim that it wasn't you, the card issuer or in this case PayPal recover the payment and the vendor is left to bear the cost while the card-owner enjoys the free kit.....


Simon

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

But how do they get away with this If he delivered it to their address, how can they really claim that they did not order it??

GC8

They lie; no one actually checks. If G goes to this tosser's address, I'm certain that he will find the kit..... This is a prolific problem apparently, although I'm only aware of it due to my reading about 'e-commerce' site construction earlier.


Simon

Big-G

Just to add a footnote to my saga, I have just received this final note from eBay :-


.......I am sorry to hear that you had problems with this user. I have noted
that you have closed the dispute you had with them and you received a
final value fee credit. I don't think you will ever be able to contact
this buyer...........


Looks like somebody paid him a visit!!!

MattN

I took someone to the small claims court. it cost 10% of amount I was claiming for, as i won, it was added to my claim.

fatherpierre

The inital post highlights why paypal is being dropped on a daily basis by many big sellers on ebay - that, and the silly rates they charge.

I stopped using it 18 months ago, and tend only to buy on ebay and sell through cheaper mediums.

Marry paypal's high fees with ebay's robbing FVFs and listing fees and you can see why ebay are cleaning up.