weapon69

I ask because it would save me a fair bit of money on Higher Education fees. However, im concerned that employers won't see an HND as much improvement on my A-levels

Anyone got any experience of this?

weapon69

Nooooobody?

johnfelstead

HND is classed as a vocational equivilent to a degree by some, others see it as a lower level on a par with A Levels. Quite often you can do an HND and then a shortened degree course.

I think it depends on what type of industry you are looking for, for example a HND is electronics might be of more use to an employer than a degree in physics.

V45DSM

It all depends on what subject its in.

[Edited by V45DSM - 1/21/2004 7:19:18 PM]

pslewis

My father used to hire and fire Petro-Chem engineers to work all around the world ...... and to his mind, through a vast amount of experience, He would MUCH rather hire a HND Engineer who had actually worked for a living since 16, than a Degree Engineer who is wet behind the ears.

The tables turn after the 2 Engineers have about 10 years each under their belt .... its then that the degree counts.

Pete

weapon69

It would be HND in Business. Worth doing?

BrettC

Hi Weapon69

I completely agree with Johnfelstead's comment:

'I think it depends on what type of industry you are looking for, for example a HND is electronics might be of more use to an employer than a degree in physics. '

In my opinion and in my field of Microbiology and Molecular Biology an HND is seen as somewhere between A-levels and a BSc.
Please correct if wrong but I thought an HND was a two year course as opposed to at least 3/4 for a degree.

It depends on what you want to do with your HND? If for instance you want to use your qualification to have a career in a technical aspect of Microbiology for example then an HND might be great for you (and then it would be a waste of your time to go for a degree). Please be aware though that a degree is seen as a 'higher' qualification than an HND. If you intend to pursue an academic career (professional scientist, post doc (research scientist)etc) where you may want to obtain a masters or doctorate degree then in 9 times out of 10 a degree will be a necessity.

The above may not be the case for other professions all I can comment about is the one I'm in.

I agree that you would save a fair bit of money doing an HND but you earning potential MAY be lower in the long run.

Remember though that even if you decide on a degree this doesnt rule out technical related careers but if you decide on the HND route it MAY rule out an academic career.

Please be aware that I am definately not trying to provide a hierarchy between technical and academic. I know lots of people that have technical type roles yet could have quite easily gone down a different path.!

Good luck with your decisions.

BrettC

One more comment. (bored already?)

Using the previously provided example of a an HND in electronics or a degree in Physics. This may well be more useful.

but...

If at a later date you want to change your career after a stint in electronics and completely change profession a degree in physics will help you a lot more that an HND.

yadda yadda yadda!

weapon69

Degrees i've been looking at are 3/4 years. HND would suit 3 of my needs in that its cheaper, i can study locally and it takes 2 years instead of 3/4.

Just wondered if i'd get a better job if i had this qualification really.

Markus

Echo the 'depends what you get on in and your desired workplace'

I don't have an HND, I have just a regular National Diploma in Computer Studies, plus a couple of GCSE's

Now, as I was interested in the computing field it made sense to get the ND. It might have helped get me my first job, as a typesetter, but I don't think it helped after that, simply as I moved into the tech support arena and all the knowledge I had was self learnt and continues to be, hence the 9 years worth of trauma lol

BrettC

back to V45DSM's comment.

'It all depends on what subject its in.'

But an HND is seen as the next rung on the ladder after A-levels.

BrettC

ooops.
Markus beat me to it!

BrettC

Sorry Weapons69

I missed your post stating that it was in business.

pslewis's comment about experience is probably very valid in this case.

FrenchBoy

I did an HND in business.

the good thing about it is that after the 2 years you can do a one year 'top-up' to a degree if you decide that you need the extra qualification.

or if you've had enough you still come out of it with something to show for your efforts.

Jerome

Something to bear in mind is that some companies actively discriminate against non-graduates. I have an HND in Software Engineering, and, although I've done OK with it, my biggest regret is not going to uni to get a degree. Not just for the qualification either - everyone I know had a great time at uni. Some places will also pay graduates more than an HND holder.

Also, if you ever want to live/work abroad, a university degree is normally recognised. An HND often will not be. You can either pay to get an equivalency certificate or just blag it (like I did) and say you have a BA/BSc equivalent.

ScoobyDoo555

edited to say "echo all the above comments", BUT you can always return to college/uni to convert your HND into a degree with an extra 12 months work (subject depending)

This is how is breaks down:


National Certificate - Vocational equivalent to 2 A Levels
National Diploma - Vocational equivalent to 3 A Levels

Higher National Diploma - Vocational equivalent to roughly 1/2 a degree. However, the same as a Foundation degree.

They are worth an awful lot (bearing in mind the amount of degrees out there and degree owners)

Not wishing to start a flaming session, but alot of employers hold degrees in less regard than they used to.

With a HNC/D, the qualification demonstrates that you're at a degree level, but you've got practical experience in your chosen field too.

I went down the HND route, albeit a specialised qualification (Professional Sound & Video Technology)
This got me a job with UB40, and I worked up to producing several albums for them.
I now run & lecture in Audio/Professional Sound Technology courses with a freelance producer/writer/programmer/engineer status at a College. I earn enough to keep me and the family very well and have the advantage of good hours and great holidays!!!

Nowt wrong with a HND. Even though it's run by BTEC, don't confuse it with the shower who screwed up the exam results - different section!!!

Hope this helps, but feel free to ask anymore - my work email is -

dan.armstrong@hct.ac.uk

Dan

[Edited by ScoobyDoo555 - 1/21/2004 11:01:03 PM]

adeel.a

I have done a Natioanal Diploma... I continued on to do a Higher National Diploma... then topped it up and turned it into a Degree... Now a graduate...

When you become a Graduate you can do Post Graduate course and then specialise in the field/industry of your area of specialisation.

I think doing an HND first and then a degree has helped me so much because it has given me a stronger foundation for 'the real world'.

My opinion...

davegtt

I did a HNC in electronic engineering which is a 2 year course, when that was completed I had the oportunity (which I let pass) off doing a HND which was 1 more extra year, thought it was a 3 year course? I may be wrong though

David Lock

Stand to be corrected but at national level A2s are Level 3, HND Level 4 (same as first year of degree course) and degree is level 5. This just confirms what's been said above. DL.

Dracoro

I've got an HND and a degree. I did the HND in computing and then, as I did well, after 2 years transfered to the 2nd year of a degree in computing. 2 qualifications and an extra year having a laugh at uni!

If you're reasonably academically minded but not sure if the degree may be too daunting then do a HND. If you do well on the HND then you can then go on to the degree if you so fancy.

As with a lot of courses, it depends on the subject. To my mind, an HND in business is far better than a degree in media or sports studies studies if you're going for a 'normal' job. Obviously if you want to go into media or 'sports' then those degrees will be better.

[Edited by Dracoro - 1/22/2004 9:58:41 AM]