DrEvil

Its always been a vague area, but what is an HND equivalent to?
Degree pass?

Aren't the two similar in what they saying about an individual, ie University level qualification?

Would you employ someone with a degree pass over someone with a HND pass with the same work experience levels? Or vica versa?

Just interested to know peoples thoughts...

David Lock

I stand to be corrected but I thought HND was roughly equivalent to first year of degree. More vocationally orientated. DL

ScoobyDoo555

HND is the vocational equivalent to a Foundation Degree. For certain jobs, I would tend to look at a HND more favourably - usually due to the assessment criteria lend themselves more to real-life situations.

Nothing wrong with Degrees, but they are 10 a penny at the moment. Ask all the graduates who left in the Summer, who got a job that was at the level of pay relative to their education?

I would imagine, hardly anyone.

Ask the same of a HND candidate. Plus you can usually bolt on additional study to convert your HND into a Degree.

Dan

hades

FWIW, I have always thought of an HND as a slightly more vocational, less academic qualification that is worth less than a degree. For certain jobs, the vocational type elements may be particularly suited and therefore more useful than a degree.

However, there's a lot more to life than qualifications, and I'd only really take them into account if (a) they were directly relevant/necessary to the job and/or (b) the person concerned has only just left university/college and therefore you have nothing else to judge them on.

This is based entirely on my perceptions. I have a degree, I have never taken an HND, so you could argue I'm biased. The other way of looking at it is that I could have done either and plainly picked the degree.

ScoobyDriverWannabe

Once you have a HND, if you find that you are being overlooked for jobs in favour of people with a degree you can do a extra top up year which will convert your HND into a degree.

Hnd is alot more flexible aswell (well it is where i am doing mine). It can be done part time aswell as full time. If you have a change of circumstances, you are able to cut down your hours and get a HNC instead.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

12 years ago I passed a HND in Electrical Engineering, upon having no luck finding a job in the summer, I went back to Uni and started on the 2nd year of the degree course.

The 2 year HND was fully packed lessons all week, more real world based stuff, whereas the degree was higher level technically, more thoery and assignments - and also half a week to spare! In a way I'm glad I got the degree, but more glad I did the HND to prepare for it - I know I would have been far greener as a graduate in the real world if I had just done a 3 year degree course.

DrEvil

Fair enough - nobody has really been able to explain it to me in the past, even people with degrees!

So more vocational, not at the same level as a degree, but none the less a University 'level' qualification - perceived as 'higher education' right?

And yes, you can guess what I've got! Being more practical opted for the HND route (infact had to do HNC for 2 years, then HND coversion in year 3) whilst I was working.

Has worked well for me, not held me back (as yet). Employers seem more focused on my experience in the area I work in.

ScoobyDriverWannabe - what are the options you've found for a 'degree' top up?

ScoobyDriverWannabe

My HND is in buisness & computing to give it the full name.

The top up im going to do last for one year, there is 2 different top ups i can do. Cant remember the exact names of them but one is computer systems engineering (or something along those lines) and the other is more buisness & e comerce orientated.

DrEvil

Is it a full time course , the degree 1 yr top up that is?

ScoobyDriverWannabe

yes although i do believe there is a part time option also available

ScoobyDriverWannabe

What are you doing your HND in Dr Evil ?

DrEvil

Hmm.. I might look into this.. Trouble is, I'd probably have to try and do something through the OU, as my company will not give me a day off for it!

Thanks

DrEvil

I did Computer Science HNC, then HND, Sept '92 until July '95. Handed my notice in end of Aug '95 when I got my results

hugo

Back in 1981 I left scool with 3 Scottish Highers, and not at particularly good grades. I got into a technical college to do HND biology (3 year 'sandwich' course with 2 six month periods in industry doing technician work). I then got very interested in taking things further and on the back of the HND got into 3rd year of a biochemistry degree course. I have gone on to get other qualifications and do other things. I have to say that the HND course was one of the best all round courses I ever did. The breadth of education and experience in it still serves me well today. OK its not so 'academic' as a degree but I think that having the combination as outlined above provided a far better education than going into a university degree from day 1. The HND seemed to be educating you a little about a lot of things, and seemed to be good preparation for starting a career in a broad range of biological science-related technician work (or at least that's what I say in interviews!). OK it may not have been focused in any particular direction, but I did that later once I had sorted my lifes direction out a bit more. The foundation it has provided is still rock solid today. In answer to your question, a 'degree' will probably always be seen as 'superior' but whether that is deserved or not is another matter. However I'm sure this will depend on the job in question. Furthermore, a degree now is probably a different animal than in my day (....cardboard box in t'middle of t'street etc etc! ).

Watchdog

HNC is worth a lot to me, as for an extra year this can be turned in to a degree, and show that you can also study and hold on to a job at the same time.

Chins

A degree can actually harm. HR might give you an interview, but your new potential boss might not have a degree and feel threatened. I'm finishing my Masters after leaving school with nowt to talk about. I'm 100% that in a recent interview the degree course counted against me.

Jonathan

Jerome

Generally speaking, a company with a job vacancy requiring a degree will still consider a candidate with an HND with the exception of snobby banks and other City institutions.

I've always thought that an HND is the same academic difficulty as a degree, but more vocational than a degree. By the time someone is 30, whether they have a degree or HND is, er, academic to me.

FTR, I have an HND in Software Engineering. On my resume here, I put "BSc equivalent".


When I looked into doing an MSc with the OU a few years, the HND gave almost no exemptions (whilst a Police Sergeants exam pass did - must've been fecking difficult). They now seem to recognise it to some extent - see here.

super_si

Im on the HND top up route now.
My advice would be you want a degree at the end, do the degree program. Because of what i was taught certain paths where shut to me while topping up!

Si

pslewis

In the 'REAL' world the person with a HND is THE Daddy!!

Normally left school, as I did, at 15 - did an apprenticeship for 5 years, spent 1 day at college AND one evening a week (6-9pm when your mates were up the pub!) .... earned your own money, worked hard, learnt in the workplace and gained a HND (after going through a ONC and HNC)!!

Degree lads, stayed at school till 18 doing A levels, went to University and got a degree ............. left at 21 thinking the world owes them a high standard of living - for what?? never done a days work!!

Nah .................. HND and experience wins hands-down EVERYTIME!

Pete

fast bloke

Yep - If I need to go and see a doctor on Monday - I really really hope I get to see the one with the HND... erm NOT

pete - I was getting worried - you have been talking some sense for a couple of weeks - I thought Matron might have increased your Aricept.... normal service has ben resumed.

Dr Evil - As an ex student I couldn't really see the difference between a HND and a pass degree (passing second year) - As an ex employer, I found the difference was that the HND people could do, while the degree people could understand. It was much easier to get a person who could understand to do than it was to get a person who could do to understand... does that make sense

At the end of the day it doesn't matter much, cos i would give them both an interview and give the job to the blonde with the big ****... erm I mean best candidate

bloke

I'm old enough to have a degree from the days when it meant something.

Now 50% of kids go to uni

Unless you want to be an academic maybe a HND is the way to go.

Having said that I'm proud of my BSc (Econ)

fast bloke

Only 15 from my year (60 pupils - very posh and selective college) made it to uni. No-one from the comp made it that year - (iirc that is comprehensive school as opposed to compost heap )

hades

That's why a lot of people now will look at which uni the degree came from. A degree from one of the top universities still means the same as it ever did.

PSL - for someone at your age, you'd be talking degree & 50 years experience vs HND & 55 years - what odds? The employer will look at your track record and experience, and probably personality (assuming you have one )

G-STAR

I’m currently doing a degree in Business Studies and I live with someone who’s doing a HND in the same subject. From what I’m able to gather, he does very similar modules, but with a different perspective on them.

For example, we have both recently done an ‘organisational behaviour’ module, however, while I had an oral assessment based on the theories behind these behaviours, my flatmate was given a more practical based assessment to work with.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

All this talk very much depends on the subject taken and the employment destination! Some very reputable Uni's have very poor courses. Some new universties excel in certain areas!

As for financial gain, again, it depends on the subject of your degree and what industry you end up in. Some will reward you for your education financially, other's.....well let's say at least you'll enjoy the job!

To give you some idea, I'm now a post-doc at a University, the starting salary for someone in my position is about 18K. If I were to have gone to many commercial/industrial orginisations, I would have started on 24K and probably be on about 40K by now. However, only the transferable skills obtained from my education would have been utilised; I would not have been doing what I trained for!

You need to research the area that you would like to be employed in, ascertain what qualifications they ascribe most value to and plan accordingly.

Best of luck!

Petem95

HNC's tend to be done at college by people who werent clever enough to get into a 6th form and do A-levels.

I know people who've done HND's and this has been seen as equivalent to the first year of a degree, however apparently quite a lot easier. These tend to be done by people who did an HNC previously.

Degree's are the things to have ASSUMING its in a decent subject from a decent uni. Someone who got some decent a-levels should go onto do a decent degree (in something like Maths or Engineering). Degrees are just getting a bad name at the moment as the government is pushing everyone into higher education as they know they wont be claiming dole if theyre at uni. Degrees in stuff like Media Studies are just pointless.

Watchdog

Oh yeah right!

If I had done 1 more year of my HNC I would have got a Degree.

HNC's are part time with a lot of work done out side the class room.

In fact, my mate, completed his dibby HNC and carried on until he got his masters......not bad for someone who is not clever enough to go to 6th form and do A-Levels

Petem95

Masters in what, and from where tho?

The fact is the vast majority of higher performers in GCSE go on to do A-levels.

pslewis

I will repeat what I said earlier .....

A person from the 'real' world with a HND is more valuable than a 'wet behind the ears' Graduate ..................

As the years go by and your career develops then its less of a gap, but, and this is crucial - the 'degree' child is always a child ..... the 'HND' man is always a man ..... its strange but true!

Its as if, if you play and get a degree, you miss out on the character building years where the HNC/HND people need to hold a job down AND study .....

So (taking the stupid statement posted earlier) a doctor with HND in Medical Studies and working in a hospital in practical issues since 15 and is now 23 OR a Degree Doctor with 2 weeks in the REAL world?? The HND Doctor gets my trust and body to work on!! (I KNOW they all need degrees, just answering the daft point made above)

Pete

DrEvil

Some interesting points - some strange ones.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume people that did HNCs weren't clever enough to do a degree.

I had the option of either, and basically couldn't stand the idea of another 3-4 years in full time education, so opted for the HNC/HND/trainee route - we had to do the HNC first rather than just a full HND course, it was the way the company wanted us to go.

I can also see that for certain jobs, degree level qualifications are required.

I think a lot of people will choose one route or another based on a) what subject they want to study and b) whether they are practical (HND) or theoretical (Degree) types.

PS. pls forgive any errors, been up most of the night working and today. I know how fussy you lot are!