Autocar sideways challenge
18 August 2000, 11:51 AM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 7,901
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone on here (Simon?) got any idea of the cause of Don Palmer's poor showing in the Autocar Sideways Challenge (he came last)? I would have thought it was just his thing. Any chance of our Simon having a go next year(AIUI he's an expert on sliding an M Coupe)?
FWIW my money was on Penti Arrikala but it wasn't to be.
FWIW my money was on Penti Arrikala but it wasn't to be.
18 August 2000, 03:03 PM
#2
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't know why Don would have come last - He sounds like a bit of a demon in any four-tyred steed. Where would we be able to see footage? Is this to be included on a TV show or does anyone have links to movies on the web where we can have a look?
Just checking
Joolz.
Just checking
Joolz.
18 August 2000, 04:16 PM
#3
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From what I could gather, he had a spectacular 'off' in the ZM Coupe that lost him shed loads of points, but was otherwise OK in the ZM. However, he did have probs with the race car thingy, which is unlike any form of road car, and some other 'names' also had problems with it.
I was pretty disappointed to see him come last 'cos I was (am?) considering one of his courses. He was in fairly illustrious company, but when a 15 yr old (however good) can beat him, one has to worry...
Just IMHO
Jerome.
I was pretty disappointed to see him come last 'cos I was (am?) considering one of his courses. He was in fairly illustrious company, but when a 15 yr old (however good) can beat him, one has to worry...
Just IMHO
Jerome.
20 August 2000, 08:14 PM
#4
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know anything about this challenge but don't let his poor showing put you off taking one of Don's courses. The courses are excellent. Going sideways is just part of it and he mostly leaves that to Simon de Foetus
21 August 2000, 10:11 AM
#5
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't know for certain, but I think that the scoring system heavily penalises anyone who has an off, effectively ending their chances of winning.
Presumably your list of the "World's greatest drivers" doesn't include Ayrton Senna, Michael Schumacher or Colin McRae because they too have had offs and failed to win races?
A monkey can drive a car sideways, the skill is in teaching others to do it.
Presumably your list of the "World's greatest drivers" doesn't include Ayrton Senna, Michael Schumacher or Colin McRae because they too have had offs and failed to win races?
A monkey can drive a car sideways, the skill is in teaching others to do it.
21 August 2000, 10:35 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The real deal on the sideways challenge is that the task is very very difficult. I spend my time teaching people driving skill, both on the road and on track. I am not a rally driver nor do I race cars for a living.
It is very flattering to be invited to do something like the Sideways challenge and I would do it again if I were invited. - For the first time in a long time I was measured against the best in the business.
That said, if I were to go again, I would practice the different skills needed at Chobham rather than simply assume I could do what I do every working day at MIRA and put it into practice on a very different and unpredictable surface.
Avoiding spinning was crucial - a spin loses you 25 points - I managed to spin twice. - Unforgivable you may say.
The sideways challenge is certainly about having the courage to go fast and to push the car sideways - most of the competitors didn't do that with the commitment needed to be the winner. They didn't lose any points for spinning either.
At the end of the day I am not the best exponent of car control in the country. Simple as that.
The great learning for me was about being under pressure (which I'm not normally). More than that it was about learning to predict the situation before it arrives, I drive in a very consistent environment at MIRA where there is enough time to react to the changes in attitude of the vehicle.
At Chobham the environment was very inconsistent with almost dry areas and areas of standing water it was necessary to predict the throttle and steering required before you got there. I simply failed to do that.
It is also a crazy place to do that sort of thing because there are no run-off areas and the speeds are far higher than at MIRA.
The steel pram was nightmare - F1 stock cars are definitely an acquired art - three laps to master it? Yeah right!
A competition to see who can teach handling on the limit in the shortest and most effective manner is more my cuppa. - Thanks for noticing.
Don Palmer
It is very flattering to be invited to do something like the Sideways challenge and I would do it again if I were invited. - For the first time in a long time I was measured against the best in the business.
That said, if I were to go again, I would practice the different skills needed at Chobham rather than simply assume I could do what I do every working day at MIRA and put it into practice on a very different and unpredictable surface.
Avoiding spinning was crucial - a spin loses you 25 points - I managed to spin twice. - Unforgivable you may say.
The sideways challenge is certainly about having the courage to go fast and to push the car sideways - most of the competitors didn't do that with the commitment needed to be the winner. They didn't lose any points for spinning either.
At the end of the day I am not the best exponent of car control in the country. Simple as that.
The great learning for me was about being under pressure (which I'm not normally). More than that it was about learning to predict the situation before it arrives, I drive in a very consistent environment at MIRA where there is enough time to react to the changes in attitude of the vehicle.
At Chobham the environment was very inconsistent with almost dry areas and areas of standing water it was necessary to predict the throttle and steering required before you got there. I simply failed to do that.
It is also a crazy place to do that sort of thing because there are no run-off areas and the speeds are far higher than at MIRA.
The steel pram was nightmare - F1 stock cars are definitely an acquired art - three laps to master it? Yeah right!
A competition to see who can teach handling on the limit in the shortest and most effective manner is more my cuppa. - Thanks for noticing.
Don Palmer
22 August 2000, 08:57 AM
#7
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ooops,
Once again I posted before thinking.
Don, when I've finally got my Scoob I'll still be booking a course (if you'll have me).
Eating lots of humble pie.
Jerome.
PS: Don, after the course, you could put a post here about my driving...
Once again I posted before thinking.
Don, when I've finally got my Scoob I'll still be booking a course (if you'll have me).
Eating lots of humble pie.
Jerome.
PS: Don, after the course, you could put a post here about my driving...
Trending Topics
22 August 2000, 09:38 AM
#8
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 7,901
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the answer, Don. I was sure that the results weren't a proper reflection of your abilities 
FWIW I too have managed to spin a stock car (but not one with 650 bhp -- looks like a laugh to me). I thought it was rather unfair that the bloke who came second owned the stock car (like he's not going to be any good at it).
FWIW I too have managed to spin a stock car (but not one with 650 bhp -- looks like a laugh to me). I thought it was rather unfair that the bloke who came second owned the stock car (like he's not going to be any good at it).
22 August 2000, 01:08 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 1,727
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rest assured that Don has received enough p*ss taking from me to last him many many years 
.
I have my own theories on why Don was so unfortunate...
Firstly let me say Don has an staggering level of car control. More than the majority of human beings could even contemplate.
Secondly Don is almost certainly amongst the very best limit handling coaches in the world.
These are facts, which cannot be disputed by a test of any kind....
Don lost BIG points due to spins. This loss of points probably masked the actual score he would have got.
Why did he spin?
3 reasons...
1) The rapid surface changes are more akin to Rally Driving Skills rather than track driving skills. If the surface had been consistent, there is no question he would have been in the top 5.
2) At MIRA on the concentric circles, there is no importance what-so-ever placed on 'not spinning'. You can happily drive sideways round there and just try to get an extra degree sideways until there is nothing left and the car spins. Don often spins if only to show people that it doesn't matter.
3) The third reason is this. The majority of the competitors basically drove the cars round, no real sideways, very gingerly nursed the car round. There was no way on earth they were going to win, but at least they wouldn't lose big points for spinning. Don however, almost certainly nailed it all the way round in an effort to produce excellence rather than just turn up and drive a car round. The difference is, Don knows what the REAL limit is and would have tried to get there.
I still take the p*ss though
And in answer to carl's question, "yes I will be there next year. i have an invite already"
Cheers
Simon
.I have my own theories on why Don was so unfortunate...
Firstly let me say Don has an staggering level of car control. More than the majority of human beings could even contemplate.
Secondly Don is almost certainly amongst the very best limit handling coaches in the world.
These are facts, which cannot be disputed by a test of any kind....
Don lost BIG points due to spins. This loss of points probably masked the actual score he would have got.
Why did he spin?
3 reasons...
1) The rapid surface changes are more akin to Rally Driving Skills rather than track driving skills. If the surface had been consistent, there is no question he would have been in the top 5.
2) At MIRA on the concentric circles, there is no importance what-so-ever placed on 'not spinning'. You can happily drive sideways round there and just try to get an extra degree sideways until there is nothing left and the car spins. Don often spins if only to show people that it doesn't matter.
3) The third reason is this. The majority of the competitors basically drove the cars round, no real sideways, very gingerly nursed the car round. There was no way on earth they were going to win, but at least they wouldn't lose big points for spinning. Don however, almost certainly nailed it all the way round in an effort to produce excellence rather than just turn up and drive a car round. The difference is, Don knows what the REAL limit is and would have tried to get there.
I still take the p*ss though
And in answer to carl's question, "yes I will be there next year. i have an invite already
"Cheers
Simon
22 August 2000, 01:19 PM
#10
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jerome
I look forwards to you being backwards lots but I wouldn't dream of posting anything derogatory about anyone's driving (apart from Simon's.)
Seriously the wetter the better has outcomes that don't matter and outcomes that do. For me the only outcome is that people get better at car control.
Simon de Sideways gets my vote for the star buy if we are taking bets on the outcome of the Sideways Challenge next year.
I won't speak to him ever again when he wins either!
[This message has been edited by Don Palmer (edited 22 August 2000).]
I look forwards to you being backwards lots but I wouldn't dream of posting anything derogatory about anyone's driving (apart from Simon's.)
Seriously the wetter the better has outcomes that don't matter and outcomes that do. For me the only outcome is that people get better at car control.
Simon de Sideways gets my vote for the star buy if we are taking bets on the outcome of the Sideways Challenge next year.
I won't speak to him ever again when he wins either!
[This message has been edited by Don Palmer (edited 22 August 2000).]
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post