Martin2005

I know that some people will never give up their second amendment rights, but what good does mass gun ownership bring to society?

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-31082294

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Some people might argue that this is akin to asking "what good does mass car ownership bring to society", every time a teenager wraps their car round a tree.

Martin2005

Utility?

tony de wonderful

What's it got to do with you? I didn't know you were American?

Martin2005

Can I use the same argument next time we have a discussion about Israel or the Islamic world?

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Trees are very useful things, they convert carbon dioxide into oxygen, their wood can be made into furniture and other practical items, or just burnt as fuel

Martin2005

????

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Nice one. He's totally flummoxed.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

America is a dangerous place, If I lived there I'd have a concealed daily carry for every occasion and a tidy collection it would be too.

Guns aren't the problem, they're the cure.

People get hurt everyday by inanimate objects, ever had a paper cut? they hurt like hell, should we ban paper because of the thousands of people that hurt themselves everyday?

People get stabbed all the time, should we ban knives because a few criminals and idiots injure themselves and others.

It's no different to cars guns and many other inanimate objects in this world, it's the person in possession, control or not as the case may be that is the problem.

dpb

tony de wonderful

Use that argument against all the euro anti-Israelis sure if you want.

Martin2005

I am flummoxed, it's a completely batty argument

Tidgy

sorry but only got themselves to blame, the child should have never been able to get hold of the gun in the first place. Just irresponsible gun owners.

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

Another 'responsible' gun toter who doesn't appear to have heard of the safety catch

c_maguire

An automatic right to bear arms is illogical, as such a large percentage of the population have neither the competence, responsibility or mentality to possess a firearm without an unwarrented risk to others (or to a lesser extent, themselves).

If operated correctly (which is not 100% the case) a vetting system such as we have here is the best way. Currently I feel the restrictions in place here as regards the types of firearm permitted are too narrow, but monitoring after vetting is too lax also (after renewal I go five years without anyone even speaking to me ).

Tidgy

you can have any gun you want with the right license in the uk,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

BlkKnight

Solution:

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

In theory, yes. In practice though, it's a near impossibility for an ordinary person to own any kind of hand-gun, for example.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

OK, I'll stop fooling with you.
Point 1, the utility of an object shouldn't be the sole justification for it being legal to own it.
Point 2, firearms are to a great extent the type of object that their owners would describe as having purchased specifically only to use in an emergency, so to compare their utility with that of a car isn't easy to do.
Point 3, I'd fully agree that there are too many irresponsible firearm owners and that this needs to be addressed (the story in your opening post being a perfect example of this, since quite aside from the fact it's almost certain the safety catch wasn't engaged, it's highly questionable whether a handbag is an appropriate place to store a potentially lethal weapon in the first place).

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

You can but they generally have a comedy Clint Eastwood length barrel or some sort of extension on the grip, I think the minimum is 24 inches, you may as well have a shotgun as you stand a better chance of hitting something.

c_maguire

And absolutely impossible to possess a fully automatic gun of any kind, so no assault rifles a la USA.

Back in the day I had a 9mm Browning and a 92F Berreta, as you say too much grief now.

c_maguire

Point 2 of course is USA relevant, whereas here vermin control or clay pigeon will be the justification most use, gamekeepers excluded.

Tidgy

o dont get me wrong, some are easier to get hold of than others, but not impossible.

can;t comment on the auto fire ban, wasn't that i was talking to someone about who is big into their shooting.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

There is no appliable safety catch on Glock pistols, the weapon that causes most of these 'idiot' shootings.

hodgy0_2

"Open Carry" is quite a big movement

http://www.opencarry.org/

I even bought the book "My Parents Open Carry" for my father-in-law for Xmas

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

This is definitely something we have got right over the U.S. I spent a lot of my youth obsessed with guns. Pellet guns, replica's, BB guns and a couple of teenage years .22 target shooting alongside my best mate who became a sniper for the Royal Marines. However, the video of the cop shooting that chap got me thinking the other day. My youngest son is 9. He's been learning Kung fu since he was 4, black belt (junior) by the time he was 7. We are doing this because we want him to be safe. Now, if this was the US, no amount of self defence would make us feel safe. Anybody could have a gun and any maniac could use it against him. The only way to make him safer, would to buy him a gun and start teaching him to shoot. Then where does it end....

I'd have to have guns in my house and my daughter of 4 could possibly get her hands on them if I was a dumb idiot like some of these gun owners seem to be.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

That's mental.

brihoppy

The gun issue in the US has little to do with constitutional rights or the general incompetence of most gun owners. It is more about the 'gun-nut' and military/survivalist fantasist culture that exists and surrounds gun ownership. It exists in the UK as well but due to our strict laws, it is now far more difficult to obtain firearms to w*** over and sleep with. Hence the upsurge in airsoft!! The comparison to the number of car related deaths is a classic weak response; as is the argument against pavements, cricket bats and knives. I won't even go into the paper cut reference!!

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Only 2 bites, I must be loosing my touch.

I also to a slightly lesser extent grew up in a world where you had to watch the door and for many years would check out who came into the room and would sit with my back to the wall, and generally be aware of your surroundings, carrying weapons or having access to them was once a part of my life, something that I'm not particularly proud of these days, but you don't get to choose where your born or the people your surrounded by as your growing up.

Thankfully I saw the light and got out, before anything major happened, but being attacked,stabbed or shot was a distinct possibility more due to the crowed I ran with than my own actions.

I agree that if you carry a weapon your more likely to be involved in some sort of violence, because instead of trying to dissolve a situation you'll A) feel as though your in a position of advantage and be boosted by the fact that your "carrying" B) have the possibility of it being taken off you and used against you And C) as in this case have the possibility of hurting yourself and those around you.

At the end of the day when your born in a dangerous place where there is a culture of weapons and a possibility of violence being perpetrated against you due to the slightly un-hinged segment of the society you live in it's a really tough call as to whether you arm yourself or take your chances.

It took me many years of Martial arts training to have the confidence to leave the house unarmed and that was England as a non white man growing up in the 70's and 80's, I was just as likely to be attacked by one of my peers or social circle as I was some gang of drunken white blokes on their way back from the pub or a football match, and get "train lined" by a Stanley knife, because the threat of violence was ever present we'd always travel in numbers and I could guarantee someone had some sort of weapon, and they weren't necessarily amongst the more vulnerable in the group either.

I fully understand the reasons some might feel the need to arm themselves when faced with a certain element in the outside world.

tony de wonderful

But you can put trust in an armed all powerful state right?

It's not like government ever kill people or anything?!