6x9 subwoofers
22 August 2001, 03:29 PM
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Just seen these in a Kicker catalogue - thought they could be quite interesting if anyone was looking for a free air sub that would go in a 6x9 mounting hole.
Kicker F6x9c
Impedance 4 or 8 ohms
Power 150W
88dB/W/m
30-500Hz
89mm mounting depth
181mm mounting hole diameter
Would certainly be better than your average 6x9 without dragging the soundstage backwards...
Kicker F6x9c
Impedance 4 or 8 ohms
Power 150W
88dB/W/m
30-500Hz
89mm mounting depth
181mm mounting hole diameter
Would certainly be better than your average 6x9 without dragging the soundstage backwards...
25 August 2001, 04:22 AM
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John,I tried this years ago.For the low-po crowd,it's great.But for the serious listener(sq)it's a joke.But this is ONLY MY OPINION!
I still feel bad a little that the baffles didn't work well for you,but you put them behind speakers that were much better than the original intent.Otherwise,...
John,try it for yourself.You have what,a 12" Pioneer in the boot?And a "2 channel effort"?
The 6x9" sub only goes down 30hz.That's not a "sub".Sub is "sub-bass",5-around 25hz.Below what the rest of the speakers can produce.
I know you know that John,but before you rip me a new anus,give it a try.It's a worthy expereiment.Two 6x9's won't hold a candle to your Pioneer.
I still feel bad a little that the baffles didn't work well for you,but you put them behind speakers that were much better than the original intent.Otherwise,...
John,try it for yourself.You have what,a 12" Pioneer in the boot?And a "2 channel effort"?
The 6x9" sub only goes down 30hz.That's not a "sub".Sub is "sub-bass",5-around 25hz.Below what the rest of the speakers can produce.
I know you know that John,but before you rip me a new anus,give it a try.It's a worthy expereiment.Two 6x9's won't hold a candle to your Pioneer.
25 August 2001, 11:46 AM
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Well, actually the Pioneer is only 8" (!) Most stuff I have read suggests that 40Hz is a reasonable level to aim for and 30Hz is decent. Below that, phrases like overkill were used. I don't know as I don't think I've ever heard a setup that goes well below 35Hz, which is about where my box becomes useless. Perhaps I am missing a whole vista of experience, but watching a lot of music on a frequency plot, there seems to be little below 40, very little below 30. And a lot of amps use a subsonic filter at 20Hz (although of course it will be a slope).
Trouble is in experimenting, the Pioneer sub is pretty well sealed in its box, and it sounds so good to my ears I think I'll leave it well alone. But if you didn't want a sub in the boot in a big box - which is often the case for some folk then a free air might be an option - esp if all that was going in there would be 6x9.
I would love to hear a setup that goes really low so that I can see what you mean.
Re the baffles - they are great - as I said before I am not using them sealed, but my speakers were suffering from the Scottish weather before. However, despite the door already being absolutely loaded full of foam and sound-deadening they made a very real difference to the vibrations, so entirely worth it.
PPP is fabulous - now with induction kit is possibly putting out up to 260bhp going from info on dyno site. When the DP goes on - prob after insurance renewal in a month, I am hoping for 275bhp and will get it dyno'd. But it feels amazingly quick at the moment. Martin you must come for a ride!
Trouble is in experimenting, the Pioneer sub is pretty well sealed in its box, and it sounds so good to my ears I think I'll leave it well alone. But if you didn't want a sub in the boot in a big box - which is often the case for some folk then a free air might be an option - esp if all that was going in there would be 6x9.
I would love to hear a setup that goes really low so that I can see what you mean.
Re the baffles - they are great - as I said before I am not using them sealed, but my speakers were suffering from the Scottish weather before. However, despite the door already being absolutely loaded full of foam and sound-deadening they made a very real difference to the vibrations, so entirely worth it.
PPP is fabulous - now with induction kit is possibly putting out up to 260bhp going from info on dyno site. When the DP goes on - prob after insurance renewal in a month, I am hoping for 275bhp and will get it dyno'd. But it feels amazingly quick at the moment. Martin you must come for a ride!
27 August 2001, 05:17 PM
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Cheers John!
Man,I've been so busy...uhg!
Your sub is only an 8"?LOL!I've got a Pioneer 8" in the shed collecting dust if you want it.I'm serious.I've had it for about 3 years.Got it cheap but never really used it.Let me know.
As for sub-bass,it's just that.If you've ever been to a live concert(I mean orchestra,no amps and all that)you know the "power" the instruments have,that you can "feel".Alot of what you "feel" is really sub-sonic bass.You really can't hear it,but you know it's there,by "feel".Same for a car.
The only reason for running a sub-sonic filter in a car is to achieve higher spl numbers without toasting the subs.Other wise you're losing a chunk of sq that can never be duplicated by a smaller driver at "our" listening levels.
The 6x9 subs will have a punch or "spike" to them that just doesn't compare to a 12 or 15" sub.Yes,for a low powered system,they would help,but a system like yours...I don't think you'd like them.
I really wish you could test drive a Shiva.I'm just about temted to buy one and ship it to you so you can hear it for yourself.That's how serious I am.If you're impressed with that 8" Pioneer,see what the Shiva can do in the same amount of space and power.You'll never go back.
Naturally,it will be louder given the displacment,but would compliment the Infinity's soooo much more.
They're good to around 15hz at rated power.You know that that really can't be heard by us humans,but it's STILL part of the source,and without it,it just doesn't sound right.
I'll do this John if you promise to give it a no-holds-barred review for everyone.
You game?
Steve
Man,I've been so busy...uhg!
Your sub is only an 8"?LOL!I've got a Pioneer 8" in the shed collecting dust if you want it.I'm serious.I've had it for about 3 years.Got it cheap but never really used it.Let me know.
As for sub-bass,it's just that.If you've ever been to a live concert(I mean orchestra,no amps and all that)you know the "power" the instruments have,that you can "feel".Alot of what you "feel" is really sub-sonic bass.You really can't hear it,but you know it's there,by "feel".Same for a car.
The only reason for running a sub-sonic filter in a car is to achieve higher spl numbers without toasting the subs.Other wise you're losing a chunk of sq that can never be duplicated by a smaller driver at "our" listening levels.
The 6x9 subs will have a punch or "spike" to them that just doesn't compare to a 12 or 15" sub.Yes,for a low powered system,they would help,but a system like yours...I don't think you'd like them.
I really wish you could test drive a Shiva.I'm just about temted to buy one and ship it to you so you can hear it for yourself.That's how serious I am.If you're impressed with that 8" Pioneer,see what the Shiva can do in the same amount of space and power.You'll never go back.
Naturally,it will be louder given the displacment,but would compliment the Infinity's soooo much more.
They're good to around 15hz at rated power.You know that that really can't be heard by us humans,but it's STILL part of the source,and without it,it just doesn't sound right.
I'll do this John if you promise to give it a no-holds-barred review for everyone.
You game?
Steve
27 August 2001, 06:37 PM
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It sounds like there really is a whole world of bass out there to discover. So much music is poorly reproduced that we hear around us maybe we get used to not hearing much below 40Hz. Certainly I thought the floorstanders in my lounge went low, but it can't be anything like what you are talking about.
Let me read up on that Shiva. The shipping costs might get a bit silly for a sub? Maybe ScoobyDoc's setup will surprise me with the LF extension when I get to hear it with its new amp!? Sure, I obviously need to hear some really good bass in a car or otherwise. I certainly do not consider myself extreme when it comes to ICE - but a lot of people hear my car and can't believe the amount of bass. Maybe it is all at 40-60Hz! I need to hear someone's car with a really well setup 12 or 15" sealed or ported - the ones I've heard so far have been very disappointing... I think they were prefab cheapo one box fits all "efforts"
What size Shiva are we talking, what cost and what weight for shipping?
Let me read up on that Shiva. The shipping costs might get a bit silly for a sub? Maybe ScoobyDoc's setup will surprise me with the LF extension when I get to hear it with its new amp!? Sure, I obviously need to hear some really good bass in a car or otherwise. I certainly do not consider myself extreme when it comes to ICE - but a lot of people hear my car and can't believe the amount of bass. Maybe it is all at 40-60Hz! I need to hear someone's car with a really well setup 12 or 15" sealed or ported - the ones I've heard so far have been very disappointing... I think they were prefab cheapo one box fits all "efforts"
What size Shiva are we talking, what cost and what weight for shipping?
27 August 2001, 07:07 PM
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Another thing is would I need a really big monster amp, and also the value of ICE I am insured for - max £750 with upcoming mod-friendly policy. Also don't want to knock the power to weight ratio too much!
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28 August 2001, 02:25 AM
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AHHH...that's where you're wrong my friend.
The Adire line up of subs were meant for home theater use which is why they're so sensitive and only come in dual 8 ohm voice coils.The point is,you wouldn't have to change anything but the box.You'd have to build one for it,but that "2 channel effort"
would push the Shiva pretty good for your listening habbits(by the sounds of your description of "deafly loud").How big is the Pioneer box?
Of course,more power would be better,but not really needed.Actually the lower power level would allow you more bottom end extension without bottoming the sub.It's when you start throwing massive amounts of power to it(or any speaker)that the subsonic filter comes in,but IMO,that defeats the purpose of the sub anyways.Opinions on this vary quite a bit though.
I'm sure the speakers in your house go low,now put that sq in your car.What hits 105dbl's in your lounge could go up to 130dbl's in the car.Most automotive subs are built around this idea,and will flop in a house setup.They also are made to be "flashy" and visually appealing(including chrome)which drives up the cost.Adire cut all that crap out,hence the price.
John,I'm not trying to get you to buy one...well yes and no.You seem to be happy with your present setup,but hey,you seemed to be happy with a handfull of watts on your Infinity comps too.I think I can get one pretty soon,maybe this week,and I'll weigh it in it's box.If it's not totally outrageous(I don't think it would be,but who knows)and you'd like to try it,all I'd ask is shipping.Otherwise it's yours(Merry Christmas,happy birthday,New Year,?fathers day? )just give it an honest review.
These things have been reviewed as being the Infinity Perfects worst nightmare in competition.The Shiva is a 12" only.The Tempest is the 15" and the Maelstrom is the 18".
How many watts(rms)is the *cough*Jensen*cough*?I can't remember.
The Adire line up of subs were meant for home theater use which is why they're so sensitive and only come in dual 8 ohm voice coils.The point is,you wouldn't have to change anything but the box.You'd have to build one for it,but that "2 channel effort"
would push the Shiva pretty good for your listening habbits(by the sounds of your description of "deafly loud").How big is the Pioneer box?Of course,more power would be better,but not really needed.Actually the lower power level would allow you more bottom end extension without bottoming the sub.It's when you start throwing massive amounts of power to it(or any speaker)that the subsonic filter comes in,but IMO,that defeats the purpose of the sub anyways.Opinions on this vary quite a bit though.
I'm sure the speakers in your house go low,now put that sq in your car.What hits 105dbl's in your lounge could go up to 130dbl's in the car.Most automotive subs are built around this idea,and will flop in a house setup.They also are made to be "flashy" and visually appealing(including chrome)which drives up the cost.Adire cut all that crap out,hence the price.
John,I'm not trying to get you to buy one...well yes and no.You seem to be happy with your present setup,but hey,you seemed to be happy with a handfull of watts on your Infinity comps too.
I think I can get one pretty soon,maybe this week,and I'll weigh it in it's box.If it's not totally outrageous(I don't think it would be,but who knows)and you'd like to try it,all I'd ask is shipping.Otherwise it's yours(Merry Christmas,happy birthday,New Year,?fathers day? )just give it an honest review.These things have been reviewed as being the Infinity Perfects worst nightmare in competition.The Shiva is a 12" only.The Tempest is the 15" and the Maelstrom is the 18".
How many watts(rms)is the *cough*Jensen*cough*?I can't remember.
28 August 2001, 08:18 AM
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18 litres presently. Jensen is 150WRMS at <0.5% THD bridged IIRC with 14.4V. In other car have a Lightning Audio Strike 2 channels (which is a little better - made by Rockford) 200WRMS bridged at 14.4V.
Don't order anything yet - how much are the 12" subs?
Don't order anything yet - how much are the 12" subs?
28 August 2001, 04:07 PM
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The Shiva is $115 shipped.I want to get one for the house anyways at some point,so even if you didn't want the bother,it would still get used.
18 liters...hmmm...gotta go do the conversion thing...
18 liters...hmmm...gotta go do the conversion thing...
29 August 2001, 02:38 PM
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Well, I do want to put a sub on my lounge setup, but the amp only puts out 50W to it, so that is on the back burner at present. For the car I would need to get a suitable box. If sealed what range of volume would be suitable or should it be dead-on? I say this, cos I don't have the skill or time to build a box myself. Would a prefab one be the death of the whole thing? It certainly seems to be the death of many supposedly good subs in setups I've heard.
With all the other mods I'm doing, I don't know if now is the right time to do this to be honest - have got PPP & K&N induction, to add downpipe, braided hoses, new discs, fluid. £500. Plus then I'll want Toyos £350. And the wife is fuming already!
With all the other mods I'm doing, I don't know if now is the right time to do this to be honest - have got PPP & K&N induction, to add downpipe, braided hoses, new discs, fluid. £500. Plus then I'll want Toyos £350. And the wife is fuming already!
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