Slystav

iTrader: (1)

Hi guys

Had a drip-drip of petrol coming from under the passenger side door near the sill last week and on investigation found at least one hard pipe way up between the tank and the sill had fuel trickling down it. I couldn't see if there was damage or if it was coming down from above so the only way I could get in to have a look was to drop the whole tank. What a NIGHTMARE! I gradually pulled off the exhaust, heat shields, all brackets, handbrake cables, prop shaft, diff, cross member, filler and vent hoses, cut through the three hoses near the leak, took off the pump electrical connector and fuel tank strap front bolts. What a job!

I've freed up the front fixings for the straps and the tank is rattling round now and hanging down at the front but doesn't want to come out. Some idiot had cable tied the brake pipes to the back of the tank and I nearly broke those too but caught them in time. It feels like there is something solid at the back of the tank holding it in but I haven't been able to find anything. Short of getting a jemmy out and applying brute force is there anything I've missed or anything I need to do differently to get it to budge? I have to keep the tank in good condition as I can't afford a new one.

As far as I know the filler and vent has to come off, plus the three hoses under the sill which I cut away, but I think the pipes on top of the tank stay fixed to it. The pump could also stay in. Any thoughts? Why hasn't someone done a sticky!!??

irishscoobysti

iTrader: (1)

this might be of soem help to u


From memory it was diff cage out, handbrake cables unclipped and rear subframe lowered (not removed) that gave enough clearance to drop the tank out. All pipes and clips came undone from the top holes under the boot floor.
Although I forgot the breather and filler neck pipes to start with. Got at them from under the rear IIRC.

or contact STI_Baly he might have the Manual pdf. thinkhe done this for some other guy

best of luck

Wayno

STI_Baly

iTrader: (23)

What year is the car? Will send you the PDF bud. Plus your email addy. I'm intoxicated at the mo will try my best to get it you tonight. At the latest tomorrow.

Slystav

iTrader: (1)

It's an R Reg 98 Impreza Wagon non-turbo GL.

Email addy PM'ed.

Thanks!

STI_Baly

iTrader: (23)

Replied with PDF....any probs PM me on here...

WayneG555

iTrader: (1)

Ohh i need to get the tank out too could I get a copy of the pdf.

thanks

Slystav

iTrader: (1)

Checked out the PDF, not far off what I've done myself but the tank is just plain stuck. It's near the rear driver's side or centre, around the filler hose area, it is just stuck solid and the profile of the tank is just stuck in the profile of the bodywork. I disconnected the filler and breather hoses at the back end on the filler pipe side, do they have to come off the tank as well? The tank's so rusty I will probably have to cut them off and they will probably not make it back on.

Slystav

iTrader: (1)

Hi guys, removed those rotten hoses from the filler and vent on the tank side so the tank completely freed up on that side. But it is still completely stuck in the rear centre, near the axle frame. Feels like it's something to do with those three small hard pipes that run across the top. This is such a nightmare. I've been on it every spare hour for ten days now! I hate my car! Down with Subaru!

STI_Baly

iTrader: (23)

I honestly cannot understand if you have done all that why it is not releasing have you tried looking above it from where it has loosened up?

Try a bit of jemmy on it fella, as i;ve got a feeling its just the rusty bits and crap holding it together...

Keep us posted on here....

Wayne - will try and get you a PDF over bud my laptop with my manuals and stuff is messed up therefore can i suggest you go into the tech archives section of the forum and download one of the manuals there mate as they will also be able to help you out...

Slystav

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Baly but been on it again tonight and no progress...The tank is now down to about 30 degrees below horizontal at the front but will not hinge any more. If you have done this job before you will know what I mean but the ridge on the top of the tank is scraping on the cutout in the underside of the body panel (the two fit together like tetris). I cannot tell whether the pipes are stopping it or if it's the shape of the tank or both but I'm 99.9% that there are no other fixings. I have had my hands through the access ports under the back seats and would hazard a guess that it is too tight because of the interlocking profile. I think it's the bracket where the back seats are bolted into as it sticks out quite a lot. Removing the bolt won't help though as it is the brackets on the underside of the body which are stuck. I have tried to break off the clips which hold the tank pipework together with limited success and I have tried to pull the pipework around but it is now bending and I'm worried I am going to cause major damage to the tank. I have had the jemmy out but the tank doesn't like it!

I have covered everything accessible in WD40 and vaseline but I am now at the point where I may have to drop out the rear suspension, axle, diff, driveshafts, wheels, wishbones...well basically everything. Every sodding thing on the bottom of the car just to get the tank pipes replaced. Could anyone give me any tips before it becomes a nut and bolt restoration or a complete write-off?

Slystav

iTrader: (1)

Well guys I finally did it. Check the date - it took me a whole month. Fair enough only an hour a day plus the weekends but that's just ridiculous. If anyone needs any help on this I am now an expert!
The tank and piping design is just tragic on this car and all my experience working on it has told me it's the three hard pipes that run along the top which get caught up in the inaccessible areas. When you finally drop the tank it will be trial and error and brute force and it's just as hard to get back together. If I was refitting again I would have completely repaced the fuel pipes with hose. As it stands I only replaced the rusted ends but it just wasn't enough. Do yourself a favour and get a big tub of vaseline, a big can of WD40, a jemmy and some chemical metal putty to repair it once you've almost torn it to pieces.
For info if you have a leak in this area under the rear passenger door there is likely a simple explanation - where the fuel pipes come down around the side of the tank they are not protected and over time they get covered in mud and water and salt spray and they fall to bits. You will then have to do what I did - drop the tank and replace around 3.5 metres of hard piping with hose - to make sure you do it better than the manufacturer.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

OMG, what a trial!

scoobyster

In the hope you may still see this thread, what would you do differently if you did this job again? Would it have been easier to remove (rather than lower) the subframe, driveshafts, suspension links etc to create more room to maneuver the tank on removal/refitting?

I want to remove my tank to replace the brake lines above it and check/replace/rust proof the fuel lines. I'm also going to replace the filler neck since it looks like it will hole soon. I am tempted to remove the subframe and get it shotblasted and painted since it is looking a bit crusty. Your tale of woe is putting me off somewhat though! My car is a MY95, also a non-turbo GL wagon.

Slystav

iTrader: (1)

Hi,

That was a long time ago now but I will do my best! If I remember correctly the primary reason that the tank was jamming is that the tank is an L-shape. The rear end of it sticks up about 120mm. The car body underside is similarly cut into an L-shape. If you take out the back seats you will see what I mean. The trouble is the two interlocking shapes are so close that if you pull the front of the fuel tank down it just jams up. There are three fuel pipes that run along the front edge of the 'L' which you would risk tearing off if you just brute force pulled it. I think the key is to try and pull the tank vertically downwards rather than trying to pull it at an angle. The back must drop a bit as well. From memory, the only way to pull it down straight is to remove the diff and shafts, etc. Perhaps if it was up on a ramp and you had some help it could be done without removing them. I never tried removing the diff and shafts but if you could be bothered I think it would speed the job up. It also removes the risk of bending something, squashing or rupturing the tank. When I did it I literally had to smother everything in lube and force the tank to squirm around using a pry bar. Not very pleasant! I was also doing it lying on my back with the back end on wheel ramps. I utilised lots of ratchet straps to hold the prop shaft out of the way and stop the tank falling on me. There is also quite a lot of weight in some of those bits which can be a risk if you're lying on your back underneath.

In summary, I don't know from memory how big a job it would be to drop the diff but it would probably make the tank drop much faster. You can also blast or wire brush, then paint all of the bits you take off, which is a great opportunity for a long term spring clean. While you're up there cut off the rotten fuel pipes and replace them with good quality rubber hose. DO NOT use plain jubilee clips on the hose. Invest in proper Jubilee brand, Stainless Steel. The cheap ones do not bite tightly and one of mine rotted through in two weeks!! The hoses reappear under the rear passenger door, which you can see easily if you look before you start working. They come out from under the tank, do a U-turn and go up into the rear passenger footwell area through a moulded rubber seal. This whole arrangement is a dreadful design and makes it very likely that they will rot through. I would try to replace all the exposed bits with hose and where necessary use lots of waxoyl or mastic or something to stop water and muck getting in. Doing this is a fun easy job and a welcome relief, taking only an hour maybe. It's a good insurance policy for never having to pull the tank down again.

Hedgywrx

Just read through the posts my fuel line is leaking just after that rubber seal under passengsr rear seat its badly rotten is it worth dropping tank and replacing with hose or just cuttin out the small bit of rust i can see by the rubber seal? Rest of the pipe looks fine apart from that one bit thats now leaking? Also what type of rubber pipe did u use and what thickness? Will this not effect the running of the car? Have i got to use a certain size for pressure?

Slystav

iTrader: (1)

It's hard to make a judgement without seeing it but I would say if it's a very localised leak and you're SURE that the leak hasn't started above the tank and is just dribbling down the pipe then I would make a localised repair. It will save a LOT of work if you're like me doing it on your own on wheel ramps!

If I remember correctly, mine was leaking from further back behind the tank but the drip was running down to the u-bend which made it look like it would be an easy repair like yours might be.

I had a few local shops that sold either 6mm or 8mm bore (can't remember, I think 6mm was best) generic fuel hose by the metre, which had a wall thickness of about 3mm. It was quite tough stuff and had a white fibre braid running though it but was very cheap and general purpose stuff. Just ask your local supplier if it is for fuel systems. The pressure will not affect it and there will be no change to the fuel system as long as it's similar to this.
TIP - If you're lucky and it's just a pinhole in the u-bend you can make a 'temporary' fix with some self-amalgamating tape, which you can pick up from Screwfix or ebay for about £3 for several metres. It is insulative and waterproof and sticks to itself like clingfilm, rather than having a glue like sellotape. You would just have to check it's fuel tolerant, just Google it. It means you literally take a 20cm length, stretch it, wrap it around the pinhole for a few centimetres each side of the hole and - job done. It may well turn into a permanent fix as it's good resilient stuff.
TIP - When I spliced in the hoses to the steel lines, some of the lines were pitted and holed with rust and I only found this out by taking a grinder with wire brush and brushing off the paint. It's better to do this locally so you can see what the underlying steel is like, to make sure it's still strong and won't continue to leak or break. You should check the fullest extent of the rot in case it extends too far or goes up through the rubber gasket in the floor.
TIP - If you're doing a hose splice you will have to cut a section of the pipe out, clean up the cut ends with a round file to deburr them, then slide the clips and hose over each cut end and tighten. You can use vaseline to help get the hose ends on - the hose should be a slightly tight fit so it has to stretch over the pipe - the vaseline will dissolve and burn off in the fuel as it is petroleum based so no harm there.

Hope this helps, good luck and let me know how it goes.

Hedgywrx

Mate spot on :-) no mines deffo not above the tank its the larger of the 3 pupes that is rotten in an area about an inch long just after the rubber seal under the passenger rear seat but on the outside not inside, ive bough some 6 8 and 10 braided fuel pipe so i can just cut into the rot as far as i can and replace with rubber hose onto good metal :-) what did u use to cut the old fuel line rotten part out i have tube cutters etc but was thinking hack saw then wire brush etc etc il b doing it as soon as im home at 10 so i will keep u updated but i must say subaru have badly designed this nof seen rot this bad on a fuel line before n this is probly my 40th car lol thanks for your advice mate and il keep u posted when i start the work later

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Another tip with fuel leaks is chewing gum: Chew it up well, then stick it to the hole, plaster it down well. The fuel partly dissolves it: temporary repair.

Slystav

iTrader: (1)

No probs happy to help, yes it's a terrible design oversight! When I cut mine I used a junior hacksaw but if you could get in I think a tube cutter would be ok. Just clean and round the ends and remove any rust or paint flakes. Maybe a bit of wire wool or wet and dry etc. Once it is checked OK better to give it a covering of some kind of rust preventer or self amalg tape for long lasting moisture protection.

Hedgywrx

Thanks mate advice u given has really helped ive just finished and shes all sorted replace old metal rusted pipe with new rubber fuel pipe and shes mint again, u know the conector that runs to the larger of the 3 pipes well all the metal pipe in there was that rotten it crumbled as i took it apart so cut that out and replaced with new pipe and jobs a gooden :-) was strange how just that 1inch of rotten pipe caused such a pain in the **** lol but all sorted now thanks again mate been such a help :-)

Slystav

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the feedback, my pleasure to help out . Keep an eye on the jubilee clips from time to time as my first set were non-stainless and rotted within about two weeks leading to another leak. Proper Stainless Jubilees should last a long time. You could also protect the joint further with some self-amalg tape wrapped over the whole lot. It's worth the £3 to buy a roll for waterproofing and it also acts as a high voltage electrical insulator so ideal for burst pipes or electrical repairs. I'm sure it's fuel compatible too if you check the manufacturer's websites or Google.