Scoooby_doo & Shaggy

here is my problem and what i have checked so far

I have a my00 impreza 2000 turbo awd, i have recently put a td05 onto it and now get a check engine light after i have booted the car (boosted up) the only time the check engine light appears is when i actually boost the car over 4500rpm if i drive the car lordly and just tickle the boost then it doesnt happen

what i have checked so far, i have bypassed the 2 bar sensor, this made no difference tried a bleed valve locked off this made no difference, check all the inlet pipes no leaks at all no where, changed the maf sensor no problems (maf is standard my00 maf) i have checked the pre cat sensor and after cat sensors, the only thing that i think it could be is the actual actuator as this was the standard off the standard td04 which i think shouldnt make a difference but could be wrong, even when you take a pipe from the actuator to the turbo with no breaks its still gives the check engine light this is always after the bost has completed and like you change gear then the light comes on and puts car into limp mode for approx 30secs then the light goes off and it will then allow you to boost properly againonce boosted the light reappears like a ever circle

anyone gimme any ideas, i have checked everything the last thing to do is to get a td05 actuator if different from a standard actuator

Andie Aka Shaggy

Butty

iTrader: (2)

You've swapped from a TD04 to TD05 without any alterations to the engine management system?

bengo

iTrader: (17)

Have you remapped your ecu since changing turbos, if not I wouldn't drive under boost until you have. You are probably overboosting!

Ben

scoobyshane

good point!

scoobyshane

thats what i was thinking

Splitpin

Are you sure about that? Other comments you make further down your post suggest that you don't have an MY00 Impreza Turbo 2000 AWD.

As the other have already pointed out, the word "remap" is mentioned nowhere in your post. Is this because you haven't bothered mentioning it or because it hasn't happened?

That's not a very clever idea. Aside from anything else, if you have an MY99-00 car it doesn't have a "2 bar sensor". Either way, if by "bypassing" the sensor you mean disconnecting it, that's going to cause your engine a major problem.

We can presume the car hasn't been mapped for this TD05 then?

What the **** are you talking about? MY99/00 cars don't have a "pre-cat and after-cat" sensors. They have one lambda sensor in the top of the downpipe cat.

As above if you have checked two such sensors you clearly don't have a 99/00 car, so which is it?

Again, unless you're avoiding stating the obvious, you have fitted a turbocharger for which your ECU is not mapped and clearly cannot properly control. You've also either got the model year (and model name) of your car wrong or are talking about an exhaust sensor configuration that your car isn't equipped with.

If there's anything we've all missed let us know.

scoobyshane

hi his car is a 2000 w reg uk 2000 turbo, he has fitted a tdo5 with 90 degree intake to it. the check light comes on after you come off boost and its dropping back down through the rev range

fireblade37

iTrader: (1)

should be a front entry turbo

Scoooby_doo & Shaggy

now back to MY00 Impreza,

thanx for the other comments, but as follows

boost solenoid bypassed no difference,
ECU not mapped and
TD05 90deg exit (Thanks shane) fitted
Lambada sensor at top unplugged no difference
knock sensor changed no difference
the car boost ok until revs let off then for 30 secs the check engine light appears and then disappears

i will take it to be mapped as i thought the ecu would just run the turbo for now as a td04 and that a tune/map would be needed to get the extra performance as i believe the ecu would be set for a standard td04 i am obviously wrong in that stage, and that the ecu doesnt understand the extra boost pressure hence the overboost

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

It needs mapping before it kills the engine.

You have fundamentally changed the amount of air going into the engine without seeing whether the fuel system can keep up.

Have you seen what the CEL does are?

tjmatt

iTrader: (1)

Well Split pin is correct on everything there. The standard exhaust would only have a single lambda sensor and should have a front entry turbo - so he was probably wondering whether the engine wasn't originally from a MY00.

If you really plan on trying to run without a remap the absolute minimum you need to do is get a boost gauge to see how much its boosting - and set the boost accordingly. The OE ECU uses the MAP sensor you have disconnected to adjust the boost control solenoid so disconnecting that is a bad idea. If the OE ecu isn't able to prevent it overboosting with the range of adjustment it has around the default map then you may have some joy by reducing the tension in the wastegate actuator so the wastegate opens easier. (Sorry just seen you have bypassed this). If the wastegate actuator is connected directly to the compressor outlet with no solenoid and you still get more than 0.5 bar of boost then something is wrong - try reducing the static tension on the actuator rod by uncrewing the end.

Disconnecting the lambda sensor will only harm your MPGs - it's not wideband and isn't used under load so probably not worth disconnecting.

Best thing you can do is get it remapped, failing that, get a boost gauge, and read the fault codes using the black and green connectors under the dash, and check the AFR's using a wideband and rolling road.

Butty

iTrader: (2)

The reason for your CEL is easy to explain.

What I'm more interested in is why swap to a 90 deg intake?
Any reason for it?

I can't see anything wrong in what Splitpin said . Undiplomatic possibly, but he focussed on some confusing statements and illogical problem solving.

stedee

iTrader: (4)

you need to do the cel check mate, fit the 2 black plugs together under the dash under the steering wheel with the ignition off, then turn the ignition on then the cel light will flash a certain ammount of times, i have a feeling it will be flashing alot in your case -lol

do a search on here for the codes , there is a list of them somewhere.

it could be o boosting but i would be more worried about det.

and i too cant believe you are boosting it without at least getting it on an rr to check for det

Scoooby_doo & Shaggy

Hi there

thanx for all the comment i obviously know now i will need to re map to get the thing setup,

Splitpins comments to me where not very helpfull at all, the only thing wrong with my quote was lambada sensor and boos solenoid, technically what i put was another name for them Oxygen sensor and 2 bar sensor which are the same things i dont know of any other 2 bar map sensors that connect to the turbo other than that boost solenoid, and also the lambada sensor is sometimes referred to as the oxygen sensor, so to slate what i had written and come across all arsy was not called for

All i asked for is info, as in my beliefs i thought that the ecu would just run the turbo as a td04 hence couldnt understand why the overboost, even when you take the straight pipe from the turbo housing to the actuator which should run the turbo at 0.5bar pressure and still it over boost producing the cel after boost and not during hence i asked for some ine

the reason for the 90deg exit on the TD05 was due that was sold to me i know they are front facing but at the time my turbo had gone caput and this was the only one i could get at the time hence i fitted a td05 90deg exit trust me if i could have got a front facing one i would have

I am seriously considering taking off the td05 and buying a standard td04 to put back on it although i would need the induction pipe for the later my00 (as my car is a 2000 w reg) although split pin was ridiculing me i didnt know what car i had obviously he can see my car and read the number plate which according to everyones comments was the right thing to do

if i said i had a my00 dont you think i know what year my car actually is, there was no need for that entry from splitpin and it was uncalled for and undiplomatic, so a reply of undiplomacy was returned

thanx to everyones comments i will look into getting it remapped or i will probably now just get a new TD04 or even swap this TD05 and boost pipes for a td04 with boost pipe

Any takers you know where i am

andie

Scoooby_doo & Shaggy

oh i tried the CEL but was unable to count the code i think i was doing it wrong or something, i connected the green connectors which made the fans and solenoids click although the CEL didnt flash, do you have to connect the black connectors as well as i thought these where for learning afterchanges made???

Andie

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Yes you need to connect the black connectors.

Splitpin

You might not have found them helpful but the intention certainly was to do so. A question is not an insult, it's a request for information.

Elements of your post were, as other posters have already stated, confusing and contradictory. If you expect us to be able to understand and help you, given that we can't see your car or check it out ourselves, we have to rely on the infomation you give us. If we can't understand what you're saying the only thing we can do is ask for clarification. Rather than provide the clarification I asked for, you got arsey, which is not the way to encourage people (whether myself or anyone else in a position to do so) to help you out.

"2 bar sensor" is not "the same thing" as a boost solenoid. Again, if you provide information that's confusing, all we can do is ask you to clarify.

I wasn't slating you I was asking for clarification. You are (literally) confusing the MAP sensor and boost solenoid. The problem here is in your confused terminology and you've just demonstrated it again. A boost solenoid controls the supply of air to the wastegate actuator. A "2 bar sensor" is a type of MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor - the device that measures the pressure in the inlet manifold (and of the atmosphere outside the engine). If you didn't mix them up in your original post it wouldn't have been so confusing.

That belief is fundamentally incorrect. In addition the fact that you and Scoobyshane have claimed that the turbo's a right angle inlet one leads to further questions about what you've done with the engine intake. These are legitimate questions if you expect us to be able to understand what's going on with your car and therefore be able to help you.

When you say 90 degree exit, don't you mean 90 degree inlet? If so using a top entry turbo on a later Impreza causes you many more problems than just needing a remap - which as the others have said you definitely do need.

What exactly do you mean? All MY2000 cars have the same front entry turbo arrangement, there is no such thing as "later MY00".

Every Impreza produced from 1997MY onwards has the same turbo intake arrangement, and all 99/00 cars use exactly the same induction pipe. As such your suggestion that you need one for the "later MY00" is literally non-sense. There's no such thing.

If you want to refit the TD05 the easiest option with it would be to have it converted to front entry.

No I wasn't, I was asking you questions which, had you answered them, would have made everyone reading your thread better able to help you - and also in the long run helped you understand your car better.

Many people here actually don't quite know what they have, or think they know only to find out later that they're mistaken, yes, so yes it's possible you might be wrong, and elements of your first post - in particular the reference to "checking the pre cat and after cat sensor" simply aren't compatible with you having a '99 or 2000MY classic Impreza.

As Matt has confirmed, your car should only have one lambda sensor, and there's nothing the other side of the cat. As such when you refer to "pre- and post-cat" sensors, it's perfectly legitimate to ask you about this so we can work out what's going on with the problems that you are posting about.

Given you reference to "later MY00" above it's clear that you don't quite understand what you have and need to do to get the best out of it. That isn't an insult, it's an observation. If you actually want assistance, you can accept that, like all of us, there's always more to learn and accept guidance where it's offered. If not, given current form chances are you're going to break your car. It's no skin off my nose which you do.

If you want to know for certain what exact year and model of car you have, look at the ID plate on the nearside front suspension turret and tell us what the Applied Model code is.

My reply was economical but considered and complete, and asked you perfectly legitimate questions that would have helped us all try and work out what you have and what you're dealing with.

You responded with juvenile borderline homophobic insults that say a lot more about you than they do about me - and you've seen what's happened to your reply.

If you already know all there is to know about your car, you presumably won't need our help solving problems. Seeing as you're here, and seeing as you clearly haven't (yet) learnt the difference between a pressure sensor an a control solenoid, it's up to you whether you want to reign in the attitude and learn things, or sit in the corner sulking with your car not working properly. Your choice.

Splitpin

Oh - further to the above. First of all re. read memory mode on the ECU, you connect the black plugs on their own, not green and black at once.

Secondly, when you installed the top entry TD05 turbo, how exactly did you route the air from the mass airflow sensor to the turbo entry? You clearly couldn't have fitted a <97MY top-entry compatible inlet tract and also can't have used the standard front entry induction pipework, so what did you do?

tjmatt

iTrader: (1)

Sorry if I confused you - black only for reading codes, green and black and special procedure for resetting the stored codes.

If you have a non standard intake system on there then the MAF will read wrongly. The MAF sensor itself only reads airflow in the center of the tube its placed in - and the ECU knows what the airflow is knowing the diamter of the tube its placed in - assuming standard intake pipework size. It requires the airflow to be smooth and consistent for a correct reading. If you've shorted the intake or got bends in it in order to get it to fit because of the 90degree turbo then the airflow will not be laminar (spelling) as it passes through the MAF tube and it may read a bit wrong.

Basically you probably want at least 6 inches of the correct diameter pipe before any bends or it will read wrong. Ideally you want the original air box too - but I doubt that is possible - MY99 MAFs are prone to failure without getting gunked up with oiled cone filters.

Hope you get it working and keep us updated - i'd be interested to hear whether its possible on OE ecu.

Darc174

iTrader: (13)

crazy also as its been explained dont use boost till its been remapped

otherwise you will have a bigger bill then just a replacement turbo

Scoooby_doo & Shaggy

Splitpin,

are you sad, dont you get out very often???

trust me i have a my00 its a 2000 w reg in blue sat on my garden, i also have a STi My96

the top entry turbo as you refer too was off a older model therefore i had to re route the inlet boost pipe from a standard using an old boost pipe off similar to what the car the turbo came off, i have re routed just about all the pipes and had other pipes made to fit, where they originally came from to the new older model boost pipe

the question was nothing to do with the boost pipe, i referred to the overboost and check engine light coming on after throttle off, there are no leaks (i have checked and re checked) all the pipes and new made pipes are leak free

you ridiculed me to state i didnt know what car i had on the driveway which i am sorting out obviously i know what year the car was manufactured and obviously you can tell by the big W reg on the front, there is no way of getting this wrong as 1981 W reg cars didnt have scoobies and this 2000 w reg cars do have scoobies, and then stating i didnt know what car i have got you should have taken that as red, regardless of what you may have thought or not its like me stating, you aint got a scooby in your garage on here so that means you must have a 1.1 saxo west or desire hence you dare not list it up here

so tell me about the pressure sensor and the boost solenoid but before you go on please look at my quote how many solenoids sensors are connected to the actuator side with 2 pipe going into it, regardless of pressure sensor boost solenoid 2 bar map sensor etc, how many solenoids are there under the bonnet that connect to the actuator with 2 pipes connected to that particular solenoid, and then answer this question what part am i talking about, like i said pre post, there is only 1 solenoid 2 map sensor pressure regulator what ever you want to call it connected, what you should have written was "are you talking about the boost solenoid i could have then confirmed no hassle, what you stated was a statement to ridule me there

like i always say if you want to be treated right then treat right back, if you take the **** out of me i will take the **** out of you simples, i came on here for answers not a slating

Oxygen sensor, Lambada Sensor, Precat sensor after cat sensor, My Sti has 2 of them on or did until i disconnected one after decat pipe was fitted and i thought they would all have the same, hence my original comment, although you slated that comment all you had to say there was there isnt a after car sensor connected to the lower part of the exhaust on the wrx, i would have then replied ok i will check and then come back stating the found info no slating no nothing, regardless of what it actually is its always known as one of the synopsis stated, pre/after cat sensor or oxygen/lambada sensor there was no need for the slating comment questions would have been ample and acceptable

Your quote for theboost pipe i used the stadard pre 97 top boost pipe that comes off at 90degrees routed it between the manifold to come at the side of the header tank then uses the standard extension pipe that comes from the maf housing to the original pipe to get it away from the turbo to the position where the maf should normally be situated, although i cannot use the standard airbox i have used a pipercross airfilter, the air pipes that come from the standard boost pipe near the reservoir to the power steering have connected back to the new pipe by extending the length of normal 5mm pipes etc, the pipe that runs from the back along underneath the intercooler manifold throttle was blocked off due to only feeding the recirculating valve, this was replaced with a dump valve so no need to sort that into the boost pipe i had to modify a few other pipes but this was just unbolting and placeing in other areas to make fit

The actual problem with the car, like i am lead to belive now is a mapping problem and would need to get it mapped using ecutek (£650 from scooby clinic) or converting it back to td04, or finding a pre mapped ecu for the my00 scooby which would be considerably cheaper then having the thing setup properly

The problem is only when you shut off revs it boost fine and dandy soon as you let off revs the CEKL comes on which is after the fact of boost hence i didnt think it would be mapping, cause normally the CEL wouldnt go out if there was a problem it would stay on to make the car run in limp mode thats why i didnt think it was over boosting etc, the CEL i am lead to believe it to ensure you dont blow up your engine in lamens terms and stays on putting your car into limp mode, if you drive the scooby normally just tickling it not thrashing it just a steady drive with a slight woosh (dump valve noise) the CEL doesnt appear its only when you get over the 4500rpm mark that the CEL comes on driving normally upto 3k it doesnt put the CEL on and when it does actually put the CEL on this stays lit for approx 30secs then goes off

Its very confusing what it actually does but you may or not be able to see why i didnt think it was a mapping problem it boost fine until throttle shut off then the CEL appears for 30 secs then goes off and lets you boost again and does the same sceneario

hope this is enough information

if you want to reply then please do if you slate me again i will proper slate you back, but if you ask a question i will try to do it from my limited knowledge of i am not sure if its a scooby lol cause you can put a scooby badge on a citroen Saxo 1.1 desire/west on a 1996 W reg (i was taking the **** there) lol

Andie

Scoooby_doo & Shaggy

i will keep you posted on what happens if it sorts it out or not etc.. but i think i may be putting it back to standard and selling the td05 so if there are any takers

1 x TD04 plus Standard boost pipe swap or sell 1 x TD05 with 90 deg boost pipe

Andie

Splitpin

Oh dear.

Yes I got that. The thing is that if you had simply changed the turbo but everything else on the car was otherwise working properly, there isn't an obvious causal path for the CEL illuminating on lift-off. Therefore, it sounds as though there's a bigger problem on your car than simply the map tweaks required as a result of the turbo swap.

No, I asked you a perfectly legitimate question in an effort to clarify confusing information you gave. We can't "take information as red" <sic> when this information is mutually contradictory. As the others have pointed out everything I've said has been correct right the way down the line.

Really? The control pack on your car should have two solenoids (boost control and pressure source change) and one pressure sensor connected.

At no point have I taken the **** out of you, yet, despite you offering targets by the handful. You've seen what happened to your previous post so if you want to carry on in that vein, you know what the result will be. Maybe you should go start that other thread you were talking about and see what happens?

Yes, and it's because of your original comment, which was, as you now accept, incorrect, that I asked you to clarify what you're talking about. If you're insecure enough to get the hump on the basis of being asked to double-check stuff you actually now admit wasn't right, then you're not going to last long here.

Shame there isn't someone around who could custom map your ECU for you without the extra cost of the EcuTeK licence.

The chance of you finding a pre-mapped ECU that will suit your configuration satisfactorily is practically non-existent. Even if you find a secondhand 99-00 UK TeK unit that has been mapped for a TD05 16g, it will almost invariably be unsuitable for your custom intake configuration and the effect this will have on the MAF scaling, among other things.

However it also sounds from the symptoms you're reporting that the problems with this setup run deeper than simply mapping in the new turbo and/or rescaling the airflow sensor. Have you checked the error codes stored in the ECU yet?

Had you asked anyone here what to do before you embarked on this process you would have been told that the easiest way to drop that turbo into your car would have been to get it converted to front entry rather than making wholesale changes to the inlet tract to suit its existing configuration.

If you still want to fit it that would probably be the best way forward - although you would still need to remap afterward.

Your line of logic is actually correct there. As above the turbo swap and changes to the inlet tract shouldn't, if you've done everything properly cause the lift-off CEL by themselves. Hence I suspect you have another problem over and above those arising directly from the change of turbo. Given the number of changes you've had to make to suit the top entry turbo the likelihood is that one of those is implicated in this.

Yes, sounds confusing. Doubly so then that you're trying so hard to demonstrate a bad attitude to people with the knowledge and ability to help you diagnose your problem.

Gosh, that's hilarious. Have you got any more, or are you going to grow up?

ZEN Performance

The easiest and quickest way to get this resolved is to get your car to someone to have it checked out. What might take you days or weeks to discover might take an experienced person with the right equipment 10 minutes to diagnose and maybe even resolve.

There are lots of things that MIGHT cause the CEL to illuminate on liftoff from broken wires or dodgy plugs, to cam or crank sensor issues, but you're pissing in the wind at the moment!

It's most likely NOT a mapping issue, as at low boost the car should run normally to the casualy observer, no CELs no hesitations etc. Of course a remap should be next on your list after getting the issues sorted, as you're not going to get the best from the car without it.