Hiya folks, the option has come up for me to buy a built 2.2. Its got forged internals and wanted to know what else I will need to reach the magic "500"?

Secondly is it worth the extra cost, namely £600 to replace it with a 2.5 crank to take it to 2.35 or will I not notice the difference for my target? Basically is it worth it?

Cheers

 

unfortunalty it is not just the crank you would have to replace..

rods and pistons need changing too.

As to what else.. lots of things to get to 500 but the main one being a large turbo

Simon

 

A nice GT30.....Just out of interest, what kind of price are 2.2/2.3 builds??

 

2.35 builds are never ending cost wise... lol
Good fun though...

 

You could buy yourself a Tomei (or similar) 2.2 stroker kit, a HKS GT2835 twinscroll t/c and a nice front mount. Along with a few other supporting mods you'd see 500bhp.

 

My Type R 2.35 spec...

Axis stage 4 build... (EJ22t) 2.35
Sealed together with Cometic head gaskets and ARP studs and bolts
Adaptronics ECU
Garrett hybrid turbo (bolts in standard position) Supplied by Andy F
Samco turbo inlet pipe
800cc v-port injectors
Hybrid FMIC
Walbro fuel pump
Parrallel fuel mod
Cossie fuel pressure regulator
3 port boost solinoid
Carl Davey inlet manifold spacers
APi baffled sump
RCM uprated oil pump
uprated headers, and up-pipe
Water spray re-routed to just behind the front number plate for the FMIC

BHP not proven yet but should be high 400's... or low 500's... depending on final boost setting...
With a even bigger turbo could possible hit the 600's... although I don't think my gearbox would take to kindly to that sort of bhp... lol

 

How much is the 2.2? Most 2.2's are just a bit over 2.1 so not really much bigger at all. 2.35 would the way to go as they run and rev better than a 2.5. 'We' [ scoobynetters ] can advise on the 2.35 against the 2.2 ' opportunity ' that you have once 'we' have comparable prices.

JGM is correct, you need more than the crank to make 2.2 into 2.35 and it also depends upon how they achieved 2.2 - is it on a 2.0 block, IE 2.1 and a bit or an EJ22T block. There would be quite a cost difference to get 2.35 on a 2.0 modded to 2.1 ish as you will have to reliner it to be able to take the bigger pistons etc. EJ22 is an easier start point.

I doubt you'd see 500 on an HKS 2835 turbo, I thinks it's a bit on the small side.

David APi

 

Very interesting to read,
I was going to go ahead with an iron sleeved 2.5 block, and bolt on some sti4 heads to make an 8k redline and run with an md321T which I thought would probably be good for about 450/450 ish. In your opinion would a 2.35 cdb be a better bet? I'm obsessed with getting the turbo spooling as quickly as possible which is why I like the idea of a 2.5 but also want a car that is keen to rev when its asked of it. The car is going to be an everyday driver with minimal track time so around town characteristics need to be as pleasant as they can be at this sort of power.
thanks
will

 

This guy made 282kW ATW on 98RON (and 303kW ATW on C16, which is approx 406bhp ATW) with a GT2835, which is approx 378bhp ATW when converted, so I would imagine that's not far off 500bhp at the fly? He's sent me his dyno sheet.

I used the kW to bhp conversion found on this site to arrive at those figures.

 

Will, The last two or three 2.5's we have built are all on MD321T and using STi standard cams. 450/450 is very achieveable. Mapping the cars with Pat, we have extended the rev limiter on all three up to 7400, as up to that point they have still been pulling strongly. Better cams could bring that further up, if actually necessary.

Wastegate pressure [ IE trying to keep it shut ] can be a problem, but that's about the size of it. The 2.35 will rev on and on with the right turbo. But you'll need to go rotated turbo and so-on and add quite a bit more cost to the equation.

We have a development of the MD321T coming along that should see a bit more out of it yet.

Cost wise and ease of results; Go 2.5 MD321T or upgraded [ all done by us of course ] and I know you will be delighted with the results. Both Burns and Danny555 on here, are absolutely delighted with their cars and am sure will give you any more info about driving experience etc from their own situation.

Costing by private mail or email rather than give all my secrets away on here.

David APi

 

API David is fitting a TD06-49 to my 2.2 wagon in the next week or so.

Once it's all done and mapped, I'll let everyone know the results. Can't wait.

Dave

 

How can a EJ22 with 0.5 overbore pistons be used with WRX MY99/00 heads, is there a way to get a "normal" compressionratio?!?
I got no answer on my started thread by now, so I try to get the information here!

 

Guys thanks for your replies I don't think I made it clear from my initial post what my starting point is. Its an ej22t so no boring out required, it has forged pistons, rods, and uprated bearings. It should be strong enough but at this stage I have the option to replace the crank it has with a 2.5 crank at a cost of £600.

My car is an STi V5.... in the coolest of greys.

So back to my 1st post, would going 2.35 be worth while only for 500hp or can it be achieved with 2.2?

Which turbo would give me minimal lag or is it inevitable?

Cheers

 

you need to replace more than just the crank to make it s a 2.35.. as said already.

You can achieve 500bhp on the 2.2.. just more laggy than a 2.35.

Currently bolt on turbo like the MD321T are very good an around 450bhp.. but I beleive 500bhp and bolt on is just around the corner.

Simon

 

As has been said, the crank alone will not do the trick - it needs different rods and pistons to make a 2.35 out of a 2.2

 

oh and £600 for the crank is expensive.

Simon

 

New EJ257 crank £364.25 including VAT and delivery.....in most cases next day


Regarding the rev-ability of the 2.5ltr engine, if you’re planning on new rods/pistons then replacing with those of a longer ratio will give the EJ257 the upper rpm performance it’s suggested they struggle with.

 

Anywhere up to 8.5:1 is ok. So usually, the compression is adjusted by the size/shape of the bowl in the piston. That's part of what you pay for when you deal with reputable engine builders, they work all that stuff out for you.

The people that get in trouble are the guys who buy *****-nilly off the interweb because 'it's cheaper in America'. the yanks don't care what you buy as they don't have the responsibilty of making it work. they just supplied what you ordered.

David APi

PS You'll need; EJ257 crank, steel rods- usually Custom Crower and stroker pistons for the 2.35. Then start measuring and so-on to get it right.

 

Not strictly true. I ordered a set of cheap wiseco forged 93 mm pistons with 8.35:1 CR from the states and have seen some fantastic results with these.

still going strong after 18K miles and they cost me £320 delivered with rings, pins, delivery, import duty and taxes

 

Thanks for your answer David, of course you are a bit on the true side with your statement!

I do not worry about compression if it is quite near the stock 8.0:1 ratio, but I would think the comp.ratio with a 0.5mm (Wiseco pistons) overbored 2.2 shortblock and WRX heads will be around 7.3 or 7.5:1 and I do not know if this is any good for me.
Okay I might be able to run more boost, but how does this feel down below the rpm...
I wanted to keep my heads as my engine has only 48.000km done...
What gasket could be best for this combo?

If you just buy pistons on their own, they should be the same quality, I hope!

 

How's the ECU i sold you?

Daz

 

A bit aggressive in the upper rpm, but worked fine for me, now it seems I´m going a different route! Hope your carbuilding goes on, as well as mine does!

Now back to the questions!

 

Didn't have any bother with getting my EJ22t block from the USA... Ron @ AXIS is very helpful...
I brought a new shortblock fron the USA, then had it sent somewhere else in the USA to AXIS... They stripped the brand new block, replaced the crank, pistons and rods etc...
The whole lot cost me just over £3000... So by the time I sold all the original EJ22t parts... bet my shortblock on its own owes me £2600...
But... all the other little parts do cost and if I was to do another I'd do it again the same way... although finding a new EJ22t block has become alittle harder now...

Playsatan will back me up... its his fault I ended up doing it this way... although he said to me he doesn't hold any responsibility regarding the money I will end up spending... lol

 

This is a bit of old ground, but I think you can DIY a 2.35 quite economically (a relative term) using a 2 litre CDB.
It is always the box that trips you up with these big engines due to the torque, and so you must allow 3K for the transmission to take the full output.
There seems little sense to me to build a steel/large capacity engine and then strangle it by mapping gently to save the 'weakest link'?

I am lucky in that i have everything i need for a big engine bar the crank/sleeves for the CDB/pistons/rods/bearing shells!
Trouble is the big engine is inevitable...

Graham

 

Graham, what kind of torque are the latest STI boxes good for?? or is it better to go for PPG straight away??

.........Pete.

 

Not sure about the 6 speeder but it is a nice changing box (I drove a Spec C 18 month ago)
The ppg boxes are strong but i think you nedd more than just the gear sets, but it will all cost you about the same for both options.

With a big torquey engine? PPG, but just my opinion.