scooby_pimp

MY95 import wagon has a Dawes device boost controller fitted and I'm a little uneasy about setting up the boost it delivers. Currently the boost gauge registers around 0.6 - 0.8 (depending on gear) bar when boosting. I'm getting fairly violent fuel cutting when applying the gas fairly rapidly. How can I set up the boost controller with any confidence that i'm not gonna hurt the engine??

ScoobyDuck

iTrader: (1)

you should try it so that it 'just' makes the target you're heading for when you get it to spool in 5th. on your MY wagon, it should have a TD04, so will spool early - like 2400. so start just below and see what it 'just' hits when it get to max.
it should be 0.9bar ish.

the boost cut you are getting shouldnt happen with the manual boost controler (is it dirty ?) as they are quite good at regulating. is the boost spiking when you say, step on the gas at about 3500 in 3rd from an already half open throttle ?
if so, then check/clean the MBC (as mentioned earlier) and you might want to check the wastegate actuator, which may be a bit too tight, causing it to spike the boost.

checking the plumbing on the MBC is also worth while..shorter the better in this case.

Steve

scooby_pimp

Steve,
Cheers for the info.
Pardon my newbie ways but ......... spool ? ? ....... spike ? ?
I have an idea of what they mean but i'm sure I will have the wrong end of the stick !

ScoobyDuck

iTrader: (1)

spool is the term for when the turbo gets up to speed and starts to do something.
spike is when the boost overshoots the target boost setting. so in your case you'd probably be set at 0.8 and spiking to 1.2 or something. which isnt good.

Steve

scooby_pimp

OK, now i understand what they mean.
Doesn't feel like the boost controller spikes at all, stays static once at its limit.
Cant really tell when the turbo is spooling as the needle on my Rev counter needle is stuck at around 2.5K !! Gooood !

willy

Dont forget to drill the little hole on the dawes.
I drilled mine out to 1.5mm as it wasnt letting full boost occur immediately.
Under Andy F`s guidance.

*****

Bowders1

Can anyone show me pics or give me a run down of where to fit the MBC on a 94wrx wagon. I fitted mine between turbo actuator and turbo nipple and blanked off the solenoid with a pipe connecting where i removed both solenoid pipes to actuator and turbo nipple.

The boost seems to come in much slower and later than normal. Maybe i have the hose's to long, as I did not want to shorten any in case i was to remove the mbc.

does having longer hose connections really make a difference??

Cheers

Mark.

dj219957

Sounds to me like you have just got the dawes set too high. I started out with a MBC on my 96 wagon too. You need to set it up in 5th gear though.
Cant remember which way is which but twist the dawes so that it is at its lowest setting i.e so you have almost no boost.
Take the car out and floor it in 5th. If it doesnt hit the fuel cut then begin to twist the dawes the other way i.e to increase boost. Repeat until you have reached your target. If you hit the fuel cut you have gone too far-twist back. The dawes is very sensitive.
I wouldnt recomend you go over 1 bar without a knoclink as this is plenty. The fuel cut is there to protect the engine to an extent so you wont have to worry about going carzy!
Youll find youll only get that 1 bar in 4/5th too. The td04 isnt very good at holding much boost in the lower gears with just a dawes. Also the boost will drop off past around 5500. Thats why its best to set it in 5th. This is where you will hold your highest boost for longest.
Defo a worth while mod though as i loved the extra power it gave. Spool up was much better too.
Dawes are also good if to replace the ecu boost control if you are having problems.
Really you wanna be getting that knock link though (trust me)
This will help prevent "the big bang"

Good luck

Andy

dj219957

p.s i think the fuel cut is actually below 1bar anyway. Cant remember.

Bowders1

Thanks dj,

Not sure if I was hitting fuel cut as I also have a VOS chip fitted and I beileve the fuel cut moves to around 17.5 psi.

before the MBC was fitted i was getting approx 15 to 16 psi with the occasional spike to around 18psi (told this is common on on TD4 with vos chip)

I think the MBC I have is a "Grainger type" mbc.

I am really not looking for any more boost , just to get it kicking in quicker. Will try adjusting it again.

without being stupid could you confirm how i should have this fitted, as the older, early WRX's have different hoses to the later versions that have "T" piece hose connection to the turbo's. I seem to have 3 hoses from the solenoid .

Just want to be sure i have it connected properly.

I have scanned so many websites but none show the early models.

Cheers

Mark.

Bowders1

P.S agree with the knock link mate. will be getting one soon.

dj219957

Hi, Yes I had a VOS too. That knocklink is a must. That chip really works the car hard. If is like mine the chip will not work without the dawes. Mine over boosted without.
Yes you will have raised the fuel cut with that chip.
Tempting as it may be stick to a max boost of 1bar anymore and you will be risking detting bad enough to kill the engine.
You will have a three port solenoid. Block off all of the connections on the solenoid. (leave the hoses attatched) Also block the little hole in the air box resonator.
The dawes simply needs to sit in between the nipple for the wastgate and the nipple from the turbo inlet.
Ill send a pic if you want?
Coil packs may need to be checked too if you have recently began to work them harder.
What have you done about the CEL issue. (red light on dash).


Andy

scooby_pimp

DJ,

Just got back on here after a few weeks. Quality info provided from yourself. Much appreciated.

Bowders1

DJ, all makes sense thanks.

A pitcure would be great just to make sure.

I get the cell light on. Pain in the ****. not sure what to do about it. thought about pulling the bulb out the dash.

Bowders1

P.S DJ what is 1 bar in PSI terms...

cheers

dj219957

1 pound per square inch = 0.0689475729 bar

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...9957/boost.jpg

cut and paste to see piccy. One side to turbo inlet you can see - other side to waste gate diaphram - you can just see.

I would leave the cel on and make regular checks of the fault codes because now you have no way of knowing when a new code is triggered.


Hope this helps

Check this out: It was the chip i sold:

VOS chip for sale (with unused chip holder).

Suitable for 93-96 TD04/TD05 cars (Jap WRX saloons/wagons, all pre-97 UK cars)
I have had it work on both turbos.

WRX jap cars will need the chip holder soldering in (not too difficult) Should push straight into uk cars


You can install switch to turn it on and off.

What it does:
1) maps car for UK fuel,
2) removes speed limiter
3) maps car to hold 16psi boost
4) raises fuel cut to 18psi.
5) Should give you about 280-300 BHP.

Problems:
1) CEL illuminates so need to ignore, remove bulb, or install switch for this light. (It lights due to incorrect config for injectors (was created for legacy) but runs perfectly anyway).
2) May overboost slightly in higher gears if you have a full decat (to about 18psi).
3) I recomend you fit a manual boost controller with the chip to accuratly set the boost level.
4) I would recomend that this chip be used with a knocklink.


In perfect condition. Cost new £150

Sell £80 quid + p+p


This is the Aussie version of the scoobyECU. I can also put the buyer in touch with the producer Adrian Vos if necessary.

Andy
I will accept postal orders only - will not send goods untill money is recieved
andy_davies0@hotmail.com or pm

Quote from Adrian Vos:

Start qoute

The chip consists of a daughter board which is designed to emulate a EPROM that is nolonger available. I use two commonly available 8-bit EPROMs to emulate the 16 bit latched 27C1028. The daughterboard is only required for this purpose, and though it adds alot of cost, it has nothing to do with how well the chip works, or how well your car goes. It is the info on the EPROMs that is important for the performance of the engine.

The chip is easily fitted in about 30 minutes or less to a 16-bit ECUs fitted to MY91-MY96 EJ20T single turbo engines. All ECUs fitted to these cars are compatible with the chip. The chip actually replaces the standard software in the ECU (firmware) with the data I put on my chip. The data I put on my chip is customised to suit the liberty/legacy RS. Mechanically, there is little difference between the MY89-90 series 1 fitted with the 8-bit ECU, and the MY91-96 fitted with the 16-bit ECU. Therefore, if you have a series 1, and can obtain a 16-bit ECU from any model that came with it, and fit it with my chip to your car, it will run identically to a series 2 car with my chip. If you are searching for a 16-bit ECU, the following models should be fitted with it, and may be obtainable from wreckers or elsewhere:

* MY91-94 Liberty/Legacy EJ20T single turbo
* MY93-96 WRX (including STi/RA models), but the box is different as it is fitted to the passenger floor, so you need to make box mods, but it will plug in and work fine.

I have two versions of chip available. The fuel and ignition tunes for each are basically the same, but the boost control solenoid mapping are altered so that one version suits the 6psi wastegate of the RS with VF8,VF10,VF12 turbos. THe other version suits a 9psi wastegate, and is compattible with TD04,TD05, and sti roller bearing VF series turbos. I cannot gaurantee accurate boost control with all turbos, but I definately recommend you get this chip version if you have a 9psi wastegate, as there is a godd chance it will run the correct boost level. Please specify turbo or wastegate setting when ordering a chip from me.

Also, note that my chip will run well on WRX models with the correct ECU. As far as I know, the injectors are identical on all WRX models MY93-96, and the same AFRs will result. Some WRX version run high compression, and I recommend that the chip not be used on these engines for safety. Note however that because the WRX does not require control for a intercooler water pump, an engine check results. I recommend a switch be installed in this wire to get rid of this if it is a problem. There is no negative result in engine running.

The chip has the following attributes of its control:

* Fuelling is altered to run a far better mixture for performance. At full boost (above about 10psi), it runs an AFR of 11.5:1. If you talk to experienced tuners, you will realise that this AFR gives excellent performance whilst maintaining good engine safety. Note that the tuning is for 95 RON or greater (standard Australian premium). The knock sensor will give better performance on 98 RON fuels, but I prefer not to limit the chip to 98RON until it is more commonly available everywhere.

* Ignition is altered to max performance for the above specified fuel. The standard ECU is reasonably good in ignition advance at high boost, but far from satisfactory as boost comes on. With my maps, there is a noticable improvement in throttle response and off boost/low boost response due to the fuel and ignition maps. Note that if you are running high boost with the standard ECU, you may only get a marginal increase in top end power with my chip, as the standard ECU will lean-out at the limit of injector duty (too similar mictures to my chip or leaner!! ), and the timing is pretty good, so my chip may only pick up a few kW on a dyno, but will still dramatically fill-out the midrange and bottom end, and dramatic improvement in throttle response.

* Boost control is modified to bring boost on as quick as possible with minimal wastegate creep, and to a new level of approx 16psi. The standard ECU purposely limits boost at lower rpm, so you will get a bigger hit in the back as boost comes on. 16psi is chosen as a limit that is reliable, and does not lean-out due to running out of injector duty, and the poor flow of the standard fuel pump. If you run a better pump, you should be able to go ot about 17-18psi, but do so at your own risk.

* Boost cut limit is moved up to 18.5psi. This is where you run out of injector futy even with a good fuel pump, and I recommend you do not go over this. At your own risk, you can fit a fuel cut defender to go over this if you are aware of the risk of engine failure in doing so.

* My chip has no speed cut, for those who have a 180k speed limitter in their ECU.

* The chip is more aggressive in its use of open loop operation. This adds to the repsonisve feel of the chip as opposed to a stock ECU.

* All standard ECU features are retained... knock sensor, select monitor support etc. As far as anyone is concerned, they would not know it is there except for the performance it gains.

That is basically the features of the chip. The chip itself is very reliable, and I have not had a chip failure before, but there is a few issues that can be brought on by the chip:

* An engine cut on boost, but not above 18.5psi, and is normally acoompanied by the tacho momentarily reading 0 is generally an ignition coil problem on the engine. Although coils ran fine before the chip, the extra boost of the chip may make this problem come out. The cures are well documented on this forum, and the best cure is to replace coils with Bosch HEC715/16 coils. As stated, this is not caused by the chip, and would happen if you increased the perofrmance to similar levels using other methods. Somtimes a coil can also fail premanently causing the engine to run on less than 4 cylinders, which result in poor engine running, and if persisted, can cause fouled spark plugs and catalytic converter damage.

* Some exhausts (particularly twin dump or splitter with poor splitter design) can cause the boost control to run higher boost in higher gears. This is because the wastegate flow is restricted. If this happens I recommend the fitment of some other method of boost control that is either closed loop or use adjustable to tune the boost accordingly.

* Valve lifter noise is common on original RS engines. Sometimes in bad cases, the ECU will deterct this is pinging. In minor cases, the ECU only retard ignition, but in bad cases, the ECU will limit boost to minimum level. I twill return after a few minutes, but the only fix is to stop the ECU detecting pinging by either desensitising the knock sensor, or fixing the lifter noise by some method which is also well documented on the forum.

End quote

Bowders1

Cheers DJ,

that's all I need. I will be setting it up tomorrow and will let you know how i get on.

I noticed that you have 2 different size pipes going into the end of the dawes. Any reason for this. I guess the Turbo nipple is larger than the standard hose.

Are you running your wagon with a TD5 in these days as I have seen a thread with this listed somewhere. Hows is it running??

I have a scoobysport back box and a TSL centre pipe , was thinking of changing the down pipe, but MOT's will be an issue I think..

Mark.

dj219957

Hello. Yes the turbo nipple is bigger and it just made sense to leave as much piping as it was. I am running a td05 with a z4 map now.
I got very carried away with power in my wagon on a 80 k engine. In the end it added up to a engine rebuild. But on a positive note it ment i could have even more mods done Im happy with it now. Just comming upto 700 miles on the new engine.

I havnt thought about MOT time yet Tink you just need to find the right place

Good luck mate - dont get carried away like i did



Andy

Bowders1

Hi DJ fitted MBC today, adjusted a few times.

I seem to get varied boost through different gears. Through 1st, 2nd around 12 to 13 psi and up through the gears to 5th finally hitting just over 15psi at full boost, with boost then drifting between 13-15 after this point.

Not sure if this is typical or weather i should wind in the MBC to get a bit better through the lower gears. I don't tend to boot the car in top gear and generaly not floor the throttle very often.

to be honest not sure if it feels any faster spin up then before with just the vos chip and no MBC.

interesting to have your comments.

Thanks

Mark.

dj219957

Hi DJ fitted MBC today, adjusted a few times.

"I seem to get varied boost through different gears. Through 1st, 2nd around 12 to 13 psi and up through the gears to 5th finally hitting just over 15psi at full boost, with boost then drifting between 13-15 after this point."

Yes this is normal. Electronic boost controller can help with this to an extent.
With EBC you could perhaps get 15psi all the time.

If you wind the MBC up to get the boost in the low gears you'll overboost in the high gears - very anoying on duel carriage ways or motorways.

"to be honest not sure if it feels any faster spin up then before with just the vos chip and no MBC."
True also. The vos chip wil have a far improved spool up over the stock ecu control. Without the MBC though you will probably overboost with the VOS.

In the end i decided to ditch both the td04 and VOS and have settled for the Z4 and td05. This holds the boost a whole lot better than the td04 past 5000rpm. I think if you wac the boost up on that td04 with the MBC youll find it will still tale off past 5000rpm anyway and then overboost when planting your foot at say 3000rpm


Laters

off the get drunk now

Roojai

Andy I think you must be drunk already as you are talking to yourself here!

Mark, definately advise you to get a knocklink installed.

Andy and I both have wagons and we both tried the Vos chip and MBC and various other things. When I got a knocklink it changed the way I went with my mods, which was probably the reason that my engine didn't blow engine like Andy's did .

I think the vos chip + MBC will work on an import wagon with standard TD04 turbo, even though the timing will be a little too advanced, provided you keep boost no higher than 1 bar (14.7psi). With a knocklink you will know for sure!

Hope that helps.

Rupert

Bowders1

DJ Hope the festivities went ok mate...

I now think that I might take the MBC off as to be honest the MBC does not seem to control the boost any better than the VOS chip. The Vos chip did seem to control boost much better up and around the 15-16 psi mark and not much over boosting / spiking.
I had to wind in the MBC to get anywhere near the same kick as the VOS on its own. But as you stated it well overboosts now in the higher gears.
I am now very tempted to go with a TD05 and Z4 as you have. Any idea's on where i can get these and cost and any do's and don'ts on this conversion.

P.S started to get a bit of problem on cold starting, and noticed the cooling fans come on with ignition sometimes. I think I have seen a thread that points to the temp sensor somewhere?? will see if I can get the ECU to pick anything up. Not sure if the VOS chip will prevent this as the cell light is on permently. hopefully I can still get diagnostics mode up.

cheers

Roojai

as long as you know the code for an injections malfunction, and ignore that, then the diagnostics should still work.

Roojai

Reread the thread and it seems tha it may have been me that was drunk here

Bowders1

Hey Rupert, you could have got away with that mate. I missed it...

Thanks for the info.

Knocklink will be ordered when Jan funds come in to replace the december dent.

Currently I am driving car lightly.

Do get a bit annoyed at the up and down levels of boost on the car though. Did think about a EBC , but if the TD04 runs out of puff at higher revs there seems to be not much point.

What is your current set up.

cheers

Mark.