Franko

Just now driving home i was stuck in traffic and when i turned off the busy road i gave the car some stick,whent upto 60 then i slowed down as i hit more traffic when i stopped i saw smoke coming from the scoop!
Small amounts and i thought its probably water leak somewhere checked temperature and its all fine... this is two minutes away from home so i drove it home slowly and it started to smell of burning... opened the bonet and checked and theirs lots of oil on the pipe coming out of the turbo..

This is the pipe that goes down towards the engine and not the exhaust... i can't really make out where the oil leak is...

any sugestions anybody?

Thanks in advance

Franko

planky

Cam cover gasket could of gone.

greasemonkey

Which pipe is it specifically Franko? Could be cam cover, could be turbo itself. The oil return is the one sticking vertically down underneath the cartridge (and can be hard to spot if you don't know it's there!).

This is connected to the block via a plastic tube with spring clips retaining it at both ends. These can sometimes lose tension, allowing oil to leak through the joint, or even for the pipe to come off completely.

The return pipe header itself is attached to the bottom of the cartridge with two bolts, and there's a gasket sandwiched in to prevent leaks. One of the bolts could loosen and the gasket fail, although one of the least likely options.

The oil supply is the smaller metal pipe fixed to the side of the compressor and running into the top of the cart. This one can leak through the fitting on top of the cart, but if this was the problem you'd be able to see it easily. Have a look at the block end though, as this could be the source.

Get the car up on stands and crawl underneath with an inspection light. Can be hard to see through the crossmember and up/downpipes, but with a bit of squinting you should be able to work out where it's coming from.

With a bit of luck it'll be the bottom pipe off, which is relatively easy (although a hassle cos it's hard to reach without taking the DP and UP off) to refit. Should be able to get suitable clips at any motor factors - think they're about 15mm diameter if memory serves.

[Edited by greasemonkey - 10/13/2003 6:24:23 PM]

Franko

Thanks for the reply guys.

Greasemonkey- i don't know exactly which pipe it is.not really mechanicaly clued up you see

Thanks for the advice mate.. i'll post up a pic or two see if you can make out which pipe it is..

Many Thanks

Franko

Franko

I didn't do any checking last night as it got too dark and this morning left scooby at home. Got home now checked oil level which is still fine i havn't got any ramps but will be jacking the car up at the weekend and checking properly... had a dable to see if i could feel where the oil is coming from and its from the end of the small pipe in the pic below... well thats where i think its coming from as surrounding areas seem dry...

Could someone please tell me what this pipe is? and whats the possible cause?

GM you've posted a list above which i'll go through again and see if this is in there.. but i don't know what this pipe is called

Thanks
Franko

[Edited by Franko - 10/14/2003 5:32:23 PM]

Franko

The small pipe circled red... the oil leak seems to be coming from the rubber bush end right at the point where the pipe connects to the engine again...



[Edited by Franko - 11/3/2003 12:06:52 PM]

greasemonkey

A-ha, that is the oil supply pipe. The connector at the block end isn't (shouldn't be!) a rubber bush, it should be a pressure fitting. If it wasn't leaking before, but is now, it may simply be that it's worked loose, in which case put a spanner on it and see if it tightens. Check also that the pipe hasn't fractured where it joins the fitting.

It could also be that the camcover gasket is leaking close to where the oil supply joint is located, so don't get transfixed on the pipe. Check also that the D-shaped rubber seal on the back of the camcover is still in place, although I doubt that's the cause of your problem, seeing as it's lower than the oil feed.

Franko

Its 12am and i've just got back from work after being called in again to finish off n order... (thought to mention that don't know why )

Your right GM the connector at the block end isn't a rubber bush it feels like a pressure type fitting but i havn't seen it yet just felt it...
Its never leaked oil before (its never thrown smoke up through the bonet scoop) so i asume it wasn't leaking before...

I'll need to get a good visual in the area of the leak and it seems a really awkward spot to look into...
Will i need to remove any parts or should i be able to look at this area from underneath the car?

do you think it'l be ok to drive it to work below 3k revs? (3mile drive)

It seems to me that the oil came out of the pipe at some pressure from the way its sprayed all over the turbo pipe in the pics above...

Thank you for all the advice GM i appreciate it

I aw you one

Franko

greasemonkey

Might have started small and be getting worse, so care is in order.

You should be able to get a good eyeball of it from above. Need a good torch or inspection light in there to isolate the source of the oil. You should able to get a ring spanner on the nut (think it's 14mm, maybe 12) and see if it's loosened.

Could also be worth getting hold of some new copper sealing washers to go on the compression joint if you do have to take it off.

Impossible to answer that without seeing how bad it is, but the first thing I'd suggest is extreme caution. There are twin dangers here; the first is simply running out of oil, although you can mitigate against this by carrying a gallon in the car and checking the oil level all the time.
The second danger is that of the turbo bearing being damaged due to lack of oil pressure. Without knowing how big the leak is it's impossible to judge how much of a risk this is likely to be.

If you can't judge the extent of the problem at this point in time, I'd suggest driving the car would present an avoidable risk.

The oil is supposed to be under considerable pressure, so even a relatively small leak could lose a fair bit in a short space of time. Plus, as mentioned above, if it's spurting out a leak in the turbo supply pipe, it's not going to the turbo. Handle with care until it's fixed!

Franko

1am and you've replied !

Although the oil level is ok i won't risk driving the car... astra diesel it'll have to be to work.

Thanks for the excellent advice GM. I've got a very clear idea of whats what now thanks to you

Franko

greasemonkey

Lol! Yeah, that's what I get for working late!

Suppose the other thing I should have added is that oil spraying around this area of the car is also somewhat a fire risk, so it's yet another reason not to be driving til it's fixed.

Franko

Thanks GM

Took the pipe off today and there was a leak at the joint of the pressure fitting wanted to replace it with a new one but mate reckons its ok welded so i had it welded and now ready to be fitted. Will be fitting it in the morning hope it works fine or a new one it'll have to be

Piccy of the weld

[img]
http://photobucket.com/albums/1003/Kabir/e4c06810.jpg
[/img]

highlander68k

I'm sure you will, but just to remind you don't forget to replace the copper sealing washers. I've seen many leaks on cars that have had them reused. I even tried it once myself (in the days of the MG Metro Turbo).

Good Luck

Franko

Thanks for pointing that out to me i was going to use the old washers...

greasemonkey

Tut tut Franko, what's the point of writing stuff if you don't read it?!

The weld should be fine if he's built it up a bit. If it doesn't hold, I believe I have a spare TD04/05 supply pipe hanging round somewhere, but we'll cross that bridge if we have to.

easyrider

If you dont have any new washers to hand, you can heat the old ones up with a blow torch(holding them with a piece of wire) till red hot, then cool them rapidly by dunking them in water.
This process makes the copper soft again and will seal just as good as new ones!!!



edited because i cont spel!!!

[Edited by easyrider - 10/17/2003 1:29:57 AM]

highlander68k

Sorry Greasemonkey, I missed it too. I think I got confused with all those quotes.

Franko

i did read GM Honneest (your posts are the ones i probably read with most intrest ) it slipd my mind till highlander mentioned it again

Thanks for the excellent info guys.
I've just come back from fitting the pipe and guess.. Its leaking from exactly the same spot took it off and mates taken it to be re-welded. The point from where its leaking is the size of a needle point!

I don't like the idea of welding it again so rang my other mate and he had a spare one in his scrapyard he's just droped it off for me so i'll fit it a lil later and see if its okay...

The bolts for the pressure fittings have a very small hole from where the oil goes through... The one that i've just recieved has a bolt (the one that fits onto the block end) which has a MUCH larger hole... i think fiting this one with the larger whole may reduce the pressure on the joint and thus prevent a leak in the future.. what do you guys think?

GM thanks for offering the TD04/05 pipe much apreciated
Hopefully this one will be okay..

Franko

Small Hole which is barely visible and large hole which can be seen

greasemonkey

Clarification needed here. That pic you've posted, the one on the left is the turbo end and the one on the right is the block end, yes?

The "new" bolt you got for the block end should have the same size holes as the old one. If it doesn't, if you increased the size of the holes in the block end bolt, more oil would be let into the coupling, while the outflow would still be limited by the small orifice at the turbo end. Thus, if anything, pressure would increase inside the supply pipe if you went this route.

The block end bolt you got with the new pipe should have the same size orifice as the original one. If it doesn't, I'd suggest sticking with the original bolt, as long as it will still fit the coupling on the new pipe.

TBH I'd suggest the chances of this repeating would be pretty slim, it's not like it's a common failure. It was most likely to have been caused by the pipe fatiguing, either as a result of being removed/refitted in the past, or due to repeated flexing, rather than pressure from within.

Thus it'd be worth making sure the turbo is mounted as securely as it's supposed to be, as if the bracket is loose, not only will the oil supply be stressed, the uppipe, downpipe and headers will be too.

Certainly should be, but it's there if push comes to shove

[Edited by greasemonkey - 10/17/2003 3:19:07 PM]

Franko

GM
Yes your right,in the pic the one on the left is the turbo end and the one on the right is the block end...
The turbo end one has a small hole the same as the original block end bolt.
However the block end bolt shown in the pic has a much bigger hole as can be seen.. I think this bolt has been tampered with for some reason?
Seems the hole has been drilled bigger (not done by manufacturer)

thanks for the advice i'll be sticking with the original bolts and just change the pipe... in the morning... one small pipe taken me almost a whole week to fix

Edited cos of spelling

[Edited by Franko - 10/18/2003 10:32:22 AM]

Franko

Got it fixed this morning

Thanks for all the help and advice guys

Dougster

NICE ONE!!!

Just fixed mine as well!!

greasemonkey

Sorted!

Edited to say that's a pint you owe me if we ever meet up Franko!

[Edited by greasemonkey - 10/18/2003 5:32:22 PM]

Franko

No Probs GM

P.s GM if you got a minute please check my thread on turbo screech cheers mate

[Edited by Franko - 10/18/2003 8:59:35 PM]