Toerag

Could it be a similar thing to a forester? Just because the turbo's smaller, it doesn't mean that it can't produce the power! A couple of guys on here have S-turbos and they produce ~240-250bhp with intake,'zorst, dawes; and the forester's turbo is known to be smaller than the impreza (low down torque & better response). Check out the thread here:-http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...ThreadID=80715 Compression ratio on the S-turbo is 8.0:1 by the way.

[Edited by Toerag - 12/11/2002 3:08:05 PM]

Gussie Cup

How come early wagons are quoted with power as approx 220 whilst the saloons of same age were quoted with 240?

Is it the ECU map?? Did the wagons have more restrictive breathing??

Is it even true?

Any ideas?

RICH WILD

Could be something to do with the fact that early (93-94) WRX wagons had ickle 90 degree entry TD04 turbos instead of the TD05s on the saloons.

I only found this out last week.

Cheers

Rich

marty_t3

I thought it'd just be the map too. Unfortunately i was wrong. I believe it's down to the early JDM wagons having a TD04 turbo and the map to match. Peak torque comes in a bit earlier due to the faster spool up but it's not as high a peak as the saloon.

Best thing to do would be to swap the TD04 for a TD05(as fitted to the saloon). It's a straight swap apart from the water pipe fittings. Get a new map to match from www.scoobyecu.co.uk (Mr Wallis' free plug ) and it should take you over the 240 mark

And before anyone says "early cars should all have TD05s".. the wagons don't!!!

Edited cuz Rich got there first... (cheers again for the exhaust)

[Edited by marty_t3 - 12/10/2002 5:05:24 PM]

Gussie Cup

Ah, turbo...... I'd forgotten about that.

If its a straight swap, how much are re-built TD05 turbos now?

I've just taken mine off my MY95 saloon but Turbo Technics took it on exchange when they supplied my roller bearing hybrid MD270. Yum.

Now if the TD05 fits straight on, maybe another MD270 should be in the pipeline as that should also be a straight fit...!

IainCam

>> And before anyone says "early cars should all have TD05s".. the >> wagons don't!!!

Maybe the JDM ones didn't but my 94 uk 5dr has a TD05

marty_t3

Ian,

One thing i've been wondering is why the early uk wagons and the early JDM wagons put out the same power even though the JDM ones have smaller turbos? Any idea what the other differences are (apart from UK/Jap fuel map obviously)? I thought maybe something to do with compression ratios but i've never seen any verified specs.

IainCam

Not 100% sure on the differences TBH, once put my car bonnet to bonnet with a 96 STi and bar the red paint everything else under the bonnet was identical (as far as we could see), performance with roughly the same mods, (full decat, filter & dawes on both) has meant that power wise there isn't that much between them either (UK94 = 287bhp; STi96=290/300bhp) on a recent rolling road day.

Mine even has the alloy bonnet the same (although mine has some sound deadening whereas his doesn't )

TBH, never even heard of the early JDM wagons having the smaller turbos until now. Always figured that with the JDM ones the difference in power was just to make the saloon the more "sporty" as they have now done with the new bug-eyes (wagons don't get the arches of the saloon and no STi?).

BoxerFlat4

My understanding was that the wagons run a higher compression ratio, hence the power difference. I'm talking the JDM cars here, UK cars I hav no personal experience.

My own STI 1 MY94 has a TD05, and I have seen other (non-STI) wagons with TD05's as well.

Gussie Cup

IainCam - Theres an STI 7 wagon for sale on Autotrader.

Its the only one I've seen so far

Ben

IainCam

Thought that outside of Japan there weren't any? and even then people weren't sure if there was a Jap version. Guess there must be

Not looking to change right now anyway though

David_Wallis

Compression ratio is higher on the wagons.

Map is different, as is turbo..

I know someone with a front entry td05 for sale... Pavlo...

David

Gussie Cup

Would a front entry TD05 be a straightforward swap? (aside from the water pipes)

David_Wallis

youd have to raise the inlet slightly.

marty_t3

I followed that thread and it mentioned something about the dump valve being different in the forester. Anyone got the part number for a standard 94 WRX saloon dump valve? I want ot check it against my own. I'm just wondering how similar the motor in my car is to the forester.

Gussie Cup

David - didn't you have a 'raising the inlet' thread?

Did many people take you up on it? Are you still going ahead with it yourself?

Ben

David_Wallis

Yes... just waiting for some cnc work to be completed.

Markus

Did not know about the turbo, interesting. Now not an expert but i'm sure the compression ratio and gearing on a wagon is different to that of a saloon. obviously the CR will make a difference to power, but not sure about the gearing (I am thick you see!)

I am, once I have my ECU sorted (via www.scoobyecu.co.uk another plug), going to get the car RR'd again, as since the last time (225 bhp, and 215 lb/ft torque) it's had a new clutch, new center and backbox, and will have the new map.

Would love to find a nice healthy 240 bhp or more, and would hope so with full decat, induction kit, and the remap.

marty_t3

Markus, is it an early WRX wagon you have? Was your car standard when you last had it RR'd? I'm gonna get mine done at the next Well Lane outing so i'm just curious what to expect (assuming i haven't sold it by then and that it's running right).

I've been trying to find out the differences between the early wagons and the saloons for a while now. I believe the gearing is somewhere between the early WRX saloon and the STI version. I don't remember the final ratio off hand but it falls just a few mph short of 60 in second (though i think it feels shorter IMO)

IainCam

Markus, you should get over 240 with those mods as one of the guys up here with a 96 UK turbo got about 244 with just backbox, centre and filter IIRC. Yours should be better than that if you are getting it remapped too.

The scoobyecu remaps, it just another chip to add in or do you have to send you ecu away? With a UK94 I thought they had the board on the ecu so should just be "plug and play"?

Oh, and BTW Markus, I ended up putting Morettes on mine too, left the grill as is at the moment but Teknopete does replacement grills for the early models to go with Morettes (or later lights) so that there isn't a gap

<adds new grill to the ever increasing list despite saying to the wife that I wasn't doing *anything* else to the car>

Gussie Cup

Marty - I have a 95 Wagon and a 95 Saloon and the gearing feels exactly the same in both i.e Just under 60 in 2nd.

I haven't really looked closely in the other gears but I'm sure the ratios are the same.

Stephen Cole

Thats very useful info Gussie
Can you confirm they are both standard jap WRX models

If you get a chance the compare in other gears, esp 5th, that would be very interesting

Also how similar do you find the performance of the 220PS wagon compared to the 240PS saloon
(assuming their both standard and running ok)
The Wagon should come on boost earlier, but the saloon should give slightly higher top end power


[Edited by Stephen Cole - 12/13/2002 5:47:24 PM]

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Wagon Boost Tails off rapidly (map sucked from Markus's ECU last night).

WRX Wagon V9 ECU


WRX Saloon Z4 ECU


WRX Saloon W6 ECU


UK Saloon/Wagon V7/7D ECU


Not sure about the Turbo size, as the Duty Cycle doesn't seem to tie in with a smaller Turbo (I would of expected to see higher duty %). But the Injector size defined in the map is defined the same as a UK.

Oh! and Markus's New Map

Gussie Cup

Stephen - The Saloon is now far from standard!!

Currently having an engine rebuild...... but it hasn't been standard for a few years now!

The wagon is totally standard though - will have a look at the other gears this week and let you know.

Ben
P.S Those maps look smart Never seen a 3D one before.