scrap

Post taken from the MLR:

NOS update on my VII
As some of you may remember I had a NOS kit from the Wizard of NOS fitted to my VII about 3 months ago. There has been a major problem over the past couple of weeks but I didn't want to post until I was fairly sure of the cause. Here are the facts so far:

A couple of weeks ago when the car was in for some routine work with BARNY (Nick) he expressed concern over the amount of blue smoke being produced.

Nick checked the plugs and did a leakdown test. This was 2% 7% 56% and 2% - so as you can imagine there was a problem.

Nick suggested I shouldn't move the car and gave me a lift home (about a 100 mile return trip on a Friday night ! )

Two pistons were found to be cracked, one badly, one not too badly. The bores are OK and hopefully the rebuild will be complete mid next week. (engine 6000 miles)

Various opinions were sought from both the NOS supplier and installer as well as independant techical opinions from people familiar with NOS & EVO's but no vested interest in my car.

The cause appears to be that I was running NOS all the way to the limiter and for periods of time. The limiter on the GTA cuts back and this left extra NOS in the cut back cylinders.... and when I kicked in again at full throttle ---- BANG

Now my my grievance is that apparently the Wizard of NOS was aware of NOS problems running to a vehicles limiter, especially those cars fitted with a hard limiter like the GTA. Unfortunately this was not passed on.

As you don't normally buy an EVO to 'pop to the shops' then I would have expected to have been told something about driving it too hard.

If you visit the NOS Wizard's site at http://www.noswizard.com you will see:



quote:
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Nitrous Systems have been working with and manufacturing
Nitrous Oxide Systems and other related products for over 20 years.
It is because of our expertise and vast experience that we can say with confidence:

Highpower Nitrous Oxide Systems will
**NOT** damage your engine!!
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I don't really want to comment any further at the moment, but like I said when I first had it installed, I am happy to let you know the bad as well as the good. Well here is the first lot of bad.

I will post more as this progresses. The installer has responded positively (so far) to my suggestion for a refund. The Wizard hasn't answered the email yet so I can't comment on his response.

BTW Feel free to pass this on to Scoobynet


__________________
Trevor R


Teri
(MLR Member)

Katana

Heh you'll get the same result from sticking a Dawes and a fuel cut lifter and boosting it like mad. NOS like any other tuning stuff can destroy your engine if not used right. Besides, if I recall correctly you're not supposed to rev your engine to the redline anyway in a turbo car let alone hit the limiter..

Markus

Maybe I'm wrong here, and I'm sure I'll be corrected, but the Rev Limiter is there to prevent nasty things happening, therefore you CAN bounce off it. OK, you should not do this 100 percent of the time, as I know that can be bad. just trying to say that hiting the limiter on a fairly frequent basis should not cause major problems. I'm NOT advocating that everyone should now bounce merrily off the redline, just saying that it should be ok. I'm awating the 'chargrilled flame experience' for this post, as I know I'm prob wrong.

I think some warning should have been issued, if only a cursory, "don't go all the way to the limiter for long periods mate" Hell, if you put NOS on a micra and bounced of the limiter then it'd prob kill it way quicker, due to engine internals being a mite bit stronger in an EVO.

Sorry to hear about this, hope that it all gets sorted out for you.

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

Hitting the rev limiter all the time is not recommended. It is there to stop damage from serious abuse. In normal use, why would you be hitting the rev limiter anyway. If you do rev that far, the car stops accelerating???, which im sure if your foot is on the floor, is not what you want to happen. Realistically you should never hit it.
But it also does bring up again, the quality and expertise that these "Experts" provide for their customers. WHen they install such a kit in someones car, thene it should be reliable, and certainly not blow an engine up. That is what amateurs do. They claim to be so professional, but for a company that uses old fire extinguisher bottles ( and probably charges a fortune for them and plastic nitrous lines ) cheap and profit spring to mind. If they were aware that such a potential problem existed, then it would have to have been clearly pointed out to you by them before they even fitted the kit.
IMO Nitrous is only really of use on the drag strip anyway, or for an anti lag use. It just doesnt last long enough for serious use on the track, or road. A turbo engine can be made to produce loads of power anyway, without refills, so why bother???


[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 11/24/2002 4:09:11 PM]

WRXKM

I have Nos fitted on my Subaru and so far no probs....

The Gas is only injected in a six second burst which is done at full throttle and is finished by the time the limiter is reached..
The kit is also set to inject gas at certain RPM and boost pressures your problems are few and far between.. the only probs that have to be ironed out is overboost which is a pretty simple exercise..

It sounds like the problem lies with how your kit has been fitted.

As stated earlier it aint the Nitrous that damages the engine its only if its not running/fitted correctly.
I would be having strong words with who fitted your kit mate!!

How long did ya have it fitted and how often was it used??

Turbo_Steve

I'm with StevieTurbo on this one: NOS is almost pointless on a Turbo'd car unless you are purely interested in 1/4 mile times (in which case you should sell the Scooby and buy something rear wheel drive!!! Supra, Anyone?).

Having seen how much power you can get for very little expense with a turbocharger, NOS seems a little pointless.
I have not seen it used for AntiLag purposes, but I would imagine it would kick bottom.

tinvek

haven't tried it myself but got quite interested in nos for anitlag when my old rwd lancer turbo was on road.

it hardly uses any of the stuff as it only needs to be on for a very short period of time with a small power increase. you gain not only because you get an instant power increase but also cos you get extra exhaust flow which helps the turbo spin up

re engine damage at limiter, i'd have thought it wouldnt be too difficult to set a seperate limiter to cut the nos a couple of hundred rpm before the cars limiter which would probably make you change gear anyway. these days theres no real reason for hard limiters as the ingition fuel curves can be manipulated to reduce the power smothly over a certain rpm so the car just stops accelerating. also if you do hit the limiter think about how uncomfortable it is and then what all that jolting is doing to your transmission

chiark

I know that Mr W is experimenting with NOS to combat lag, so will point him in this direction.

I believe that the Subaru rev limiter is really quite brutal in operation - personally I've not hit it once as my car's given its best by 6-6.5k, but admittedly the Evo VII might be a tad different

Hope this chap gets it sorted to a conclusion that works for everyone

Trout...

I would have thought that a six second burst would have you through two gears changes!

Trout

Gez

How can people quote that the use of NOS will not damage your engine. It is the most dummest thing i have heard since someone told me they could run a scoob at 450bhp on standard internals. It is obvious that NOS WILL put extra stress on the internals mainly the pistons then rods and crank.
Get your facts right NOS before you market your product.

Cheers

Gez

MikeSTI7

Have to agree with you Trout 6 sec's is a long time..... in a Scooby. I have been running NOS with a 2.2 kit but use mainly as anti lag - the car is strong enough once on boost anyway!

Golden rule do not hit rev limiter with NOS.

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

I believe Mr Vizard has done quite alot on anti lag Nos systems. He swears by them when used on a turbo car in this manner. Shorts squirts at low throttle openings = feeling like a much bigger capacity motor.

Check it out.

F

e-volve

Gez matey you will find that its not Nitrious that will damage the engine but miss use of it, redlining any none race prepared car for along period of time will damage it, the addition of a burning agent ie Nitrious oxide will not inhibit nore make worse the situation.

so to be honest its an all round get you facts right post not just to you but everybody who bitches about it, many of my friends run a Nirtious bottle, but they all swear by the wet-kits, nd they have never had any such problems, because....they dont hammer it.
Also try out the progressive launch control kit that you can buy as an extra add on, it brings the nitrious in , in short fast bursts to ade the turdo get up to boost.

just my 10 peneth, please feel free to point out any flaws with my point.

WRXKM

I use Nos for anti lag purposes...

I think to be honest anyone running Gas on a turbo'd car would be using it for same purposes... Dont think anyone expects to bolt it on and expect immediate fast and the furious results!!!
(Lets get serious)

Advantages are that it basically gets rid of lag altogether which can only be good.. I mean Scoobies dont have much lag as standard to imagine uprating turbo and getting rid of it altogether how can this not be good!!!

As far as 6 sec bursts... I will just clarify this is what kit basically comes standard with it can inject the gas for six secs... However when the kit is fitted if done proper i.e full rolling road etc the time of gas being injected and time delay is adjusted... This is due to the fact as Trout says if it constantly injected gas for six secs you would probably need 12 gears!!!!

Coming back to what Gez mentioned "How can people quote Nos doesnt damage your engine?"
Well... It dont damage engine if used/fitted correctly.. It may decrease engine life but so does most mods done.... The worst being turning up the boost which practically every turbo owner does...

Think there are alot of people out there needing to be educated a bit more on the subject.... Dont just listen to the horror stories!