joesci

Hi all,

A common question I'm sure but can't find much specific to the EJ257 motors running under UK conditions. I recently bought a hatch STi, 85k miles, previous owner got it mapped to 350bhp (275whp) by Andy Carr.
Mods are:
turboback exhaust
cold air intake
boost controller
uprated injectors
uprated radiator

Unsure if engine was ever built but health check from last year (post mods/map) was all good.

Car is running 5w30 Shell Helix Ultra, have noticed I'm continuously having to top it off. Dipstick was over half way to the 'full' line about a week ago and is now almost kissing low again, so I'll have to top it off for the second time since buying it, only done 600 miles in it, road driving with occasional B road. Oil smells fairly strongly of fuel.

There's no smoke on startup, no smoke while running, no oil under the car while stationary. Some oil residue can be seen in the area around the filler cap and on the wiring harness in that area but other than that engine bay is clean. Coolant temp reads fine but car has no oil temp/pressure gauges so I have no idea about that.

The engine isn't knocking (yet) or making any terrible noises either.

Is there anything typical to look out for that would help me narrow down this problem? I also figure the 5w30 in the car (previous owner gave me a new jug of helix ultra 5w30 he had with it too) is a little thin and won't be helping so I'll be buying some 10w40 Millers tonight.

Cheers.


UPDATE:

I drove the car a short distance to pick up some new oil yesterday so I could dump out the 5w30 myself there and then in the meantime. Let the car cool off for 30-45 mins, and then checked the oil, and I was a tad above the full line? I hadn't even topped it off again by this point.

That confused me, so I bought the new oil and have brought it home without adding any more or changing it. I checked again and sure enough I wasn't anywhere near empty. I've checked this morning on a flat surface completely cold and the dipstick shows probably a little over empty, meaning I have the following readings:

Empty, Overfilled, Almost full, Almost empty.

Without adding or removing any oil. I'm more inclined to believe the middle two readings as they were taken after driving when the oil was closer to operating temp, and I think that's what the manual suggests, but how can there be such a variance in readings? Almost empty while cold to slightly overfilled when warm is a wider change than I've ever seen, and the variance in the 'up to temperature' oil is wide too. Am I being an idiot?

domino46

never used anything like 5-30 in any of mine ,, iv always used Fuchs 15-50 in all my cars standard and forged ,, all have been great

NOSSY_89

Check your PCV valve. If it hasn't been changed then change it.

Rusti

iTrader: (4)

10w40 is a much better grade for the EJ engine 5w30 is too thin

Gambit

iTrader: (6)

like said above 5w30 is way too thin, even though its what subaru 'recommends' for 2.5s. A good 10w50 is what i always used in mine both std & forged.

joesci

Cheers all so far. Will check PCV and get some thicker oil. Looking at either 5w40 or 10w40.

As for the classic oil argument, the way I understand it is that a very high quality 5w40 is simply better for the engine than it's counterpart 10w40 due to the better low temp performance, although it may shear quicker.

Without turning this into yet another oil recommendation thread, can anyone tell me why I would use Fuchs Titan 10w40 over Fuchs Titan 5w40 for example, when the only difference is low temperature viscosity? At operating temperature they are both 40 rated. The lowest acceptable viscosity for startup is surely the correct choice.

They would both be dumped at 3k miles and the car won't be tracked so I'm not too worried about serious shear.

TECHNOPUG

iTrader: (1)

Your engine has done 85k and therefore does not seal as well as when it was new due to piston ring/cylinder wear. 5w being thinner than 10w on cold start can result in oil entering the combustion chamber until the engine is upto temperature and everything has expanded to seal properly. This maybe why you are using oil. 5w is recommended in the manuals for brand new engines as they aren't worn and the thinner oil gives better protection and also economy. Subaru unsurprisingly don't state a recommended oil when the car is 10 years old and on it's 4th owner...

I would always suggest 10w oil for engines with any sort of mileage on them. If still unsure, fill with one and measure the oil consumption then swap over to the other the next change and monitor the consumption again. Then you can make an informed decision. Most of the oil companies you buy from will just reference whatever the manufacturer recommends from new but I expect if you speak to any builder who strips and rebuilds 10year old + engines for a living, they may have a differing opinion.

hedgecutter

iTrader: (5)

After a year of using Millers NT + 5w40, coupled with short journeys, my jdm hatch has used oil for the 1st time. Swapping to nt+10w50 now.

Rusti

iTrader: (4)

Alan @ ET advised me to use 10w40 for my forged scoob, Neil @ slowboy advised 10w40 / 50 on non forged FSTI.

joesci

Cheers all. If the engine builders say it it's good enough for me.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

If I read that right: Your using over a pint per 500 miles?

Personally I'd say changing grades isn't going to fix that. At best a sticky plaster fix. But if it's due a change, go ahead anyway. If your lucky it could be a gummed up ring from standing/low usage. Or the oil seals in the turbo are shot (being honest, been ages since I've seen an oil seal failure without the turbo mechanically failing, but it does happen).

But realistically there are lots of threads here on oil consumption; you are looking at the typical Subaru ring failure; Get compressions and cylinder leakage checked. This is an early indicator of the engine on its way out, as the oil burning causes det under load hammering the bearings or its inevitably run out of oil. Not wanting to bring doom and gloom, but check your bank balance is healthy as it may need a rebuild.

joesci

Thanks for the reply. Ring failure is what I suspected in the first place so I booked in for a compression test next week before posting this.

There is a twist though, I drove the car a short distance to pick up some new oil yesterday so I could dump out the 5w30 myself there and then in the meantime. Let the car cool off for 30-45 mins, and then checked the oil, and I was a tad above the full line? I hadn't even topped it off again by this point.

That confused me, so I bought the new oil and have brought it home without adding any more or changing it. I checked again and sure enough I wasn't anywhere near empty. I've checked this morning on a flat surface completely cold and the dipstick shows probably a little over empty, meaning I have the following readings:

Empty, Overfilled, Almost full, Almost empty.

Without adding or removing any oil. I'm more inclined to believe the middle two readings as they were taken after driving when the oil was closer to operating temp, and I think that's what the manual suggests, but how can there be such a variance in readings? Almost empty while cold to slightly overfilled when warm is a wider change than I've ever seen, and the variance in the 'up to temperature' oil is wide too. Am I being an idiot?

CharlySkunkWeed

iTrader: (7)

this was exactly like my Hatchback when I had it. Never the same level any time I checked it. I checked one day near Christmas and it was barely registered on the dipstick. I panicked and fired a litre bottle in (kept it in the boot for emergencies). Drove it about for a while, car randomly started stumbling occasionally so I checked oil again. . . . .up over the full line. Googled "is it bad to over fill oil" had a sleepless night, rang a nearest mechanic to see if he could help me out as I'm pretty sure it was xmas eve and I was staying at my girlfriend's miles from home. He sucked out some oil till I was happy with the levels till I could get it to my mechanic after the holidays.
left it up to him and as I parked up he said straight away "it's off a cylinder, I can hear it".
Turned out to be ringland failure and I needed a rebuild. I'll never know if me over filling caused it, or weather it was just coincidence but by god it's a terrible design for a car that's so fussy with engine failures.

joesci

Definitely not what I wanted to hear but I can't hear any misfire, knocking, metal on metal just yet so I'll hold out hope.

Here's some pictures of the readings


Stone cold, car parked with passenger side on curb

After engine running for 2 mins, left to cool for 5 mins, dead flat surface


The first pic is the only stone cold measurement I've done but the car was parked with two wheels on a low curb so not ideal.
Second pic is from this morning. I started the car, moved it off the curb to be flat, then let it cool off for a few mins and measured. Left the stick out of the tube for a min too to let the oil settle. This doesn't make sense either as I would have expected some of the oil to still be in the engine by this point and so should have read lower...

I don't have pictures of the properly warm oil, but the properly warm measurement (after a 30 minute drive, 45 minute cool down before measurement) indicated above the full line, close to the hole above the F. This was also measured on a flat surface.

No oil was added or removed between these measurements.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Ok. Don't get too fussed about the actual level too much.

Correct oil level is anywhere between F and the minimum marker.

Full is a max not a target. Only add if it drops to the minimum marker or below, It's about a pint/half a litre between max and min use that as guide on how much to add rather than mess about checking and rechecking, as oil wicks up the tube. (see attached pic).





To complicate it further the notch is the absolute maximum level with a HOT engine. So as long it doesn't go above that, your fine. Again as long as oil shows on the stick again there's going to still be 4litres in the sump. It's when the stick is bone dry you need to worry.

joesci

Got you, much ado about nothing then.

Reading any number of oil threads on here you'd think it was an impossible science with everything being a cause for concern.

So to clarify, even though the readings seem to be nonsense, they look fine?

My stone cold and cold-ish readings are near or on the L mark as above, and my hot reading (after waiting 45 mins for it to drain) is just above the F near the 2nd notch. Somehow. Just seems a bit strange that my cold level shows low and could do with a top up, and my warmer level says absolutely don't add any.

CharlySkunkWeed

iTrader: (7)

My theory now is, as long as there's oil on the dipstick I dont add any 😂

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Pretty much, so long as stays above the L and below the notch it's Ok.

Don't quote me but I think oil that has more fuel in it varys more in level with temperature; Certainly the case with diesels as I used to have headaches with Volvos and Merc diesels going in to limp mode or flashing warnings on the dash because the level sensor detects a higher level when hot. But if I filled it so it's just above minimum after a oil change then the customer complains that I under-filled it

joesci

Cheers for the help everyone.

Will be replacing PCV valve regardless and dropping this 5w30 out ASAP. Be interesting to see how the dipstick measures after adding the correct amount of new oil...

joesci

Bit of an update. Had the oil changed after an MOT recently by a local garage that came highly recommended on here and other forums.






Is it just me or has he overfilled me? This is with a stone cold engine, not been started in over a day. The only thing is, the car is on a slight incline facing uphill. Not sure which way the stick goes into the pan or if that would affect it.

Of the bottle of Millers 5w40 I gave him, there's probably about 200ml left in it.

Don Clark

Slightly over filled, especially if facing uphill and stone cold.(Dipstick enters pan from the front side left)




MY09 WRX STI info

lockheed

iTrader: (1)

Im going through a slightly similar thing.

When checking your oil are you looking at both sides of the dipstick, many times ive been overfull on one side and acceptable on the other.

Ive also found its best to check when hot because the dip stick drags oil up when cold and thick,
One other thing is that ive found is that the dip stick handle pull thingy needs to parallel with the car not with the slam panel.

joesci

Thought as much. Suppose I'll have to take it back and ask him to drop some out, unless it's not too much to worry about? Responses online range from fine to engine will blow up. Obviously.

Seems a lot of people on NASIOC just dump the whole 5qt jug (4.8l) in.