jengis

What different "styles" of heel and toe do you use? Is the term "heel and toe" missleading or does it hark back to older times?

The term, as I understand it, now generally means using left side of your upper foot to modulate brake with right side available to roll onto the accellerator to blip to match the downshift. Lets say you give 50/50 to each pedal.

If thats right then I think I am different (not, special, just different!)

My chosen technique has always been to use the whole of my upper foot on the brake and tilt my heel to the right. I blip the accellerator with the right side of my heel (in pretty much every car I have driven other than a caddy van which, suprisingly I preffered the 50/50 version).

Am I wrong to use the lower, side part of my foot, rolling and tilting it over to blip throttle? Or is that actually how the term came about?

prodriverules

iTrader: (52)

what ever feels right and works is the right way as far as im concerned mate

jengis

Agree ^

I only say because although I have tracked and hooned around in hatchbacks in the past, I was worried about my MY 96 STi wagon's transmission - it was sounding a bit whiney and strained on down shifts at the Nordschleif this summer. I'm doing cadwell on 28th Oct and (its a "budjet fun car") I want to be smooth and don't want to break it!

Just wanted to know if others use such a crude techniqe with classics Scoobs or should I be doing something different?

Kev

stedee

iTrader: (4)

i am surprised you need to do that, the position in my scooby is perfect so i can actually brake with control and blip without effecting my braking because the heights of the pedals are just right. i break with most of my foot and just tough the gas with my little toe.

Suberman

As you said, smoothness is the word. It doesn't which way, as long as its done smoothly. It should not put unecessary stress on the transmission.

I tilt my heel over to blip the throttle as well. It gives me more control over the pedals. I guess part of the reason also is that i have small feet.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

Remember heel and toe is generic and some cars have their pedals set further apart.

Just do what is comfortable and repeatable

jengis

Yeah, it does work for me better that way, even though I have size 10's!

So it seems I should be able to do it the "propper way" in the scoob though, perhaps it is down to the slightly inconsistent (sometimes quite long) pedal travel I get with the standard two pots (I have rebuilt calipers, good pads and dot 5.1 fluid so should be working as well as they can). With a firmer biting pedal I think I would feel more confident with using the normal method. Wish I had my own track to go and practice on (or wish I lived in Scotland!)

craigoscott

i have never been able to heel and toe any car, i put it down to my size 12's just being too fat, and my 6 foot 4 knees being too close to the steering wheel!

Suberman

Then thats fine. As long as you can do it consistently and smoothly.

The pedals should be consistent. I would get it checked out soon if you are not getting consistent pedal travel.

I'm confused here. What is normal way of heel toe in your opinion?

In any case, i think tilting the entire heel right feels more secure (more contact with the brakes and accelerator) then using the side of your right foot to roll over to the accelerator? If the pedals are far apart, you could risk slipping of the brake pedals if your feet aren't quite wide enough.

bmposer

iTrader: (3)

+1 I have the same problem

StanS

iTrader: (3)

I am also a member of the "smaller" feet club and have always (since 1966 !) needed an extension to the accel pedal to ease H&T. Using ball of foot on brake (more push available !) and right side of foot to blip throttle.
One I knocked up earlier:

John 37

As others have said, use whichever technique works for you.

The term heel and toe comes from when accelerator and brake pedals were in line so that, with the foot in it's normal position, the toes landed on the brake and the heel could be used on the accelerator. That arrangement was common in the early part of the 20th century and disappeared about 80 years ago. It was originally used to double declutch while braking. That's quite a dancing act if you do it right.
There's an old thread on the subject here
https://www.scoobynet.com/driving-dy...rack-days.html

John

StanS

iTrader: (3)

So since the arrival of the synchro box its useful to try to match the revs of the engine with the new gear when changing down to give smoother changes and reduce transmission stresses.

urban

iTrader: (1)

Why not just left foot brake?
Much easier and much more controllable

yellowvanman

That would make for interesting down shifts.

Suberman

tony de wonderful

Yes and you use your right foot on the clutch.

urban

iTrader: (1)

Hmmmmmm

Perhaps you should already have the correct gear selected at said point
And if you need to change up, then your left foot shouldn't be on the brake anyway

yellowvanman

Sorry mate, but you do seem to have completely missed the point. Heel and Toeing is used whilst down shifting, therefore the left foot will be operating the clutch.

Grant74

iTrader: (10)

I have had some further tuition recently, and they commented I am doing too much coming into corners, so I have moved away from this, and get everything done pre corner in a less flapped style.

Works too- taken time off my hillclimb runs.

leecalcars

iTrader: (37)

Personally i find it very easy to heel and toe and have been doing it for years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuoZeuSgEj4

Jenkins

The above clip is the way I do it.
I've already given the throttle pedal a bit of 'persuasion' to make it sit closer to the brake pedal but I suffer from very narrow feet.

Ball of the foot on the brake and the heel of the foot twisted over to blip the throttle. I suppose it doesn't help that the pedals themselves are pretty small.

paul_rallye

hi all, if its just a fun trackday just slow down more before you change down. you could even block change from say 5th to 3rd. brakes are cheaper than gearboxes. You will only save miliseconds buy using the engine braking if you are not racing anybody on a trackday dose it matter you weren't 1s faster over a lap of donnington? hope this helps.

Jenkins

That's a good point but I only really do it to try and reduce the load going through the gearbox.
I'm already producing more power than a standard box should safely take so anything i can do to delay the inevitable is strongly encouraged!

paul_rallye

also have a look into oils in the diff and gearbox. as the impreza classics dont run tranny coolers it may pay to up rate the oil, ring a company like millers they do a range of oils that hold its propertys for a longer heat range and its more tolerant to shock. i think off the top of my head its 80-130 viscosity compaired with the 80-90 standard. hope this helps to.

Talking Dog

iTrader: (1)

I had a clio sport with size 3 feet intended I think.. Heel toe was easy learn but never needed .. It was nice to exit a roundabout with fast exit speed ..

But guys .. Unless your are doing 30 laps of donnington and looking for 10ths .. pointless.

I find the flat four has a clever over run if hard acceleration was applied prior, holding the revs up for the gear change.. Forget heel toe .. change gear without the clutch .. really know your car ..

You'll hear when to. /wink

leecalcars

iTrader: (37)

Can be costly if you get it wrong .

chief-long-shin

I have bloody size 14.5's. I couldnt do that and being 6'6 i'm wedged in car anyway. I think i will stick to just covering all 3 pedals with the one foot and resting my other foot on the passenger seat.

Galifrey

iTrader: (3)

Heel and toe and double declutch there on his downshifts, smoothing the gearshift and preventing the downshift from upsetting the weight balance into the corner.

An un-revmatched downshift shifts a lot of weight forward and can kick out the rear, fine if you want to drift, not great if you want a good corner speed

Double (de)clutching will do more to protect the gearbox synchros, i double clutch always when going from 2nd to 1st as it changes so much more smoothly, and that has to be a good thing.