id's John Carmack criticises NVidia and the GF4 MX
13 February 2002, 03:12 PM
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"On the topic of current Nvidia cards:
Do not buy a GeForce4-MX for Doom.
Nvidia has really made a mess of the naming conventions here. I always thought it was bad enough that GF2 was just a speed bumped GF1, while GF3 had significant architectural improvements over GF2. I expected GF4 to be the speed bumped GF3, but calling the NV17 GF4-MX really sucks.
GF4-MX will still run Doom properly, but it will be using the NV10 codepath with only two texture units and no vertex shaders. A GF3 or 8500 will be much better performers. The GF4-MX may still be the card of choice for many people depending on pricing, especially considering that many games won't use four textures and vertex programs, but damn, I wish they had named it
something else.
As usual, there will be better cards available from both Nvidia and ATI by the time we ship the game. "
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-DV
Do not buy a GeForce4-MX for Doom.
Nvidia has really made a mess of the naming conventions here. I always thought it was bad enough that GF2 was just a speed bumped GF1, while GF3 had significant architectural improvements over GF2. I expected GF4 to be the speed bumped GF3, but calling the NV17 GF4-MX really sucks.
GF4-MX will still run Doom properly, but it will be using the NV10 codepath with only two texture units and no vertex shaders. A GF3 or 8500 will be much better performers. The GF4-MX may still be the card of choice for many people depending on pricing, especially considering that many games won't use four textures and vertex programs, but damn, I wish they had named it
something else.
As usual, there will be better cards available from both Nvidia and ATI by the time we ship the game. "
Full Post Here:
http://www.webdog.org/plans/1/
-DV
13 February 2002, 03:30 PM
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Yeah, Carmack's new game (he's been working on it since Quake3 Arena) is Doom 3
He showed off the current build back last year back at an Apple Convention, then QuakeCon
Nobody knows when its released, probably Dec '02 or later
-DV
He showed off the current build back last year back at an Apple Convention, then QuakeCon
Nobody knows when its released, probably Dec '02 or later
-DV
13 February 2002, 03:35 PM
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Did I read right that a GF3 will be MINIMUM Spec for this game 
http://www.xbitlabs.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000111.html
[Edited by Neil Smalley - 2/13/2002 3:39:42 PM]
http://www.xbitlabs.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000111.html
[Edited by Neil Smalley - 2/13/2002 3:39:42 PM]
13 February 2002, 03:46 PM
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Yes, like all Id's games, they're state-of-the-art.
Anyway, by the time the game arrives, NVidia will still have their 6 month product cycle so the GeForce5 will be around (next Feb)
Anyway, by the time the game arrives, NVidia will still have their 6 month product cycle so the GeForce5 will be around (next Feb)
13 February 2002, 03:53 PM
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Carmack is bothered about catering for everyone / selling more games - thats why there's only 20 employees at ID.
The guy just likes to pioneer State-Of-The-Art 3D engines (and DIY rockets I believe)
Personally I wish he'd try something different to DOOM & Quake, like perhaps a Gran Turismo killer for the PC.
-DV
The guy just likes to pioneer State-Of-The-Art 3D engines (and DIY rockets I believe)
Personally I wish he'd try something different to DOOM & Quake, like perhaps a Gran Turismo killer for the PC.
-DV
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13 February 2002, 04:01 PM
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Agreed.
No idea what the gameplay will be like, BUT in Dec 02 or whenever the first person shooter will be real old as a game idea. If D3 is just a super dooper looking return to castle wolfenstien, then it will bomb
No idea what the gameplay will be like, BUT in Dec 02 or whenever the first person shooter will be real old as a game idea. If D3 is just a super dooper looking return to castle wolfenstien, then it will bomb
13 February 2002, 04:06 PM
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Yeah, the fps is dated - but I can't see it becoming obsolete, just more advanced.
Return To Castle Wolfenstein was made by another company using IDs engine.
DOOM3 is actually being written by the man himself with the new engine. The big difference with it when you see it running (there's a video of the DOOM3 on the net) is the dynamic shadows - the atmosphere looks AMAZINGLY CREEPY. Shadows are done on a per pixel basis, not using crappy lightmaps anymore.
Like you say though, they'll have to come up with something better than, pull level / open door gameplay no matter how good the graphics are.
Return To Castle Wolfenstein was made by another company using IDs engine.
DOOM3 is actually being written by the man himself with the new engine. The big difference with it when you see it running (there's a video of the DOOM3 on the net) is the dynamic shadows - the atmosphere looks AMAZINGLY CREEPY. Shadows are done on a per pixel basis, not using crappy lightmaps anymore.
Like you say though, they'll have to come up with something better than, pull level / open door gameplay no matter how good the graphics are.
13 February 2002, 04:41 PM
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He did say though that by the time the game is released there would be a new generation of video cards out by then.
FPS have a LOONG life yet, the more realistic they get, the more attractive they look.
Cem
FPS have a LOONG life yet, the more realistic they get, the more attractive they look.
Cem
15 February 2002, 11:39 PM
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I don't know how anyone can say FPS will be out of date. It's one of the single major factors that push the advance of graphics card technology. You may suggest Return to Wolfenstein or Max Payne are just another in a long list of relatively linear FPS games but it is games like this that push the technology and I personally had great fun playing through them. Yes I know playability, blah blah blah, but I can only play Bubble Bobble so much without losing my mind
I'm using a GEForce 1, and have completed RTCW and MP on an Athlon 600Mhz running 1024x768 with full detail. Was expecting (and prepared) to bite the bullet and get a new GF3 card for these two games but havn't needed to. Games run smoothly right through to end with no slowdown and excellent frame rate. I don't want 200fps as it's completely pointless... No games yet truly support features such as bump mapping. Maybe not playing online means I'm not too fussy. Maybe Unreal 2 will be the one to push the boat out and finally get me onto Dabs! Don't know what everyone's whinging about really. Doom 3 will rock and I'll be down the store soon after release to get a copy, and then probably returning shortly afterwards for my new mobo, Athlon 3ghz, gb of ram using the money I don't need to spend today.
ching, ching (2p dropping)
Joolz
I'm using a GEForce 1, and have completed RTCW and MP on an Athlon 600Mhz running 1024x768 with full detail. Was expecting (and prepared) to bite the bullet and get a new GF3 card for these two games but havn't needed to. Games run smoothly right through to end with no slowdown and excellent frame rate. I don't want 200fps as it's completely pointless... No games yet truly support features such as bump mapping. Maybe not playing online means I'm not too fussy. Maybe Unreal 2 will be the one to push the boat out and finally get me onto Dabs! Don't know what everyone's whinging about really. Doom 3 will rock and I'll be down the store soon after release to get a copy, and then probably returning shortly afterwards for my new mobo, Athlon 3ghz, gb of ram using the money I don't need to spend today.
ching, ching (2p dropping)
Joolz
playing that atm
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