BlkKnight

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...air-violations

I expect this has been going on for a while. I wonder how many other manufactures are going to fall foul.

Reminds me of Nvidia vs ATI in the graphics card market where the drivers detected when benchmarking software was being used & changed output & cards behaviour.

BMW up next?

dpb

you do wonder how much the software company should be held to account

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Seems like a good plan - I wonder if something similar could be mapped into a decatted Impreza to fool the MOT testers?

hodgy0_2

yes, I think this could get bigger and bigger

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

This recent ruling shows US courts are no longer shy of jailing corporation bosses who try to mislead or abuse their customers. It'll be interesting to see if any big heads end up properly on the chopping block over this.

Alan Jeffery

Guff, all of it. Vested interest windbag claptrap.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Eh? Are you saying this deception is irrelevant or do you mean the accusers have a vested interest?

Alan Jeffery

Both? Neither? Has anybody ever accepted the emission and fuel consumption figures from any mainstream manufacturer? They are all at it.
Don't forget, this is our meat and two veg.

hodgy0_2

yes that was the LIBOR defence

"they are all at it"

doesn't really address the issue though

wrx300scooby

I think heads will roll at VW, let's just wait and see

InTurbo

iTrader: (3)

I was watching this on the news thinking the same thing

Paben

iTrader: (5)

It's one thing to express doubt over published performance figures, made under ideal conditions with a car specially prepared for the process, but surely it's another matter altogether when software manipulates emmisions during routine checks? Not even the most cynical of us can have suspected that. Perhaps some other manufacturers are now waiting for the hammer to fall too.

Dirk Diggler 75

Does this include Audi and Skoda also ...?

Alan Jeffery

I'd say there isn't a manufacturer out there who doesn't "cheat" at some level.

steve05wrx

Hi,
Car ECUs have been able to detect fuel consumption tests for years - allegedly!
When car is started at certain outside temperature (20degrees C) then gently driven in a certain way - I heard that ECU goes into fuel saving mode - as it thinks car is being tested.
I also understand the bonnet open switch is detected by ECUs - as certain tests are done with the bonnet open.
This is going to get messy very quickly!
Cheers
Steve

Alan Jeffery

And Seat

Alan Jeffery

Of course, it doesn't matter what the manufacturers do, as the likes of we just go right in there and change it all anyway!

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Blimey, you're not admitting to carrying out dodgy work that makes cars go faster but renders them illegal are you?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

To paraphrase the old advert:

"If only all car manufacturers were as dishonest as Volkswagen!"

Alan Jeffery

Neither dodgy nor illegal!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Yep. Other thread here: https://www.scoobynet.com/other-marq...l#post11740313

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Phew, your reputation is secure then

Petem95

Anyone seen details of exactly how they are cheating the test?

I keep reading about when the cars think they are under test conditions they inject urea into the emissions before the CAT so some of the nitrogen oxide is converted into ammonia, but this would imply a hidden tank of urea somewhere to just beat testing over the cars estimated lifetime? Surely that wouldn't be an option as it would be too obvious to spot?

If its purely software, what is the detriment of the reduced nitrogen oxide emissions? Much higher fuel consumption? Can't be reduced power as I'd imagine rolling road tests would be very similar to emissions tests (i.e. full throttle at stationary) so that would show up if BHP dropped. Anyone know?

hodgy0_2

maybe it only affects cars with the adblue systems

adblue is basically cows **** (so I have been told)

a colleague said his Audi 3.0 TDI has to have the adblue tank refiled every whatever 1000 miles

Dirk Diggler 75

What's this adblue stuff,never heard of this before ....

Petem95

Adblue is basically urea as I understand, but this is only on the newest models (there is a filler next to the fuel filler).

It sounds like pre-2015 cars may have a small tank of urea (adblue) which is injected only when it thinks the car is under test conditions, so may require only a very small amount to cover the cars tests over its lifetime, but surely this can't be right? You'd have mechanics/breakers find the system and wondering what it was as it wouldn't be in the VW mechanics manuals! (chapter 7, 'replacing the emissions test cheating system'!)

And yeah from what I've read too, it pretty much is urine!

http://www.largus.fr/images/images/r...ercedes_ML.jpg

Dirk Diggler 75

So in theory it's a colostomy bag for cars ........

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Yep, its the adblue. Its the bigger engined EU6 cars that tend to have it...BMW X5s, S class mercs etc.

BMWs will actually refuse to start if the adblue tank is empty or contaminated!


Its a farce really as its not enforced once the car has been sold: For example some bus operators as well as HGV operators are fitting bypass boxes that prevent their vehicles going into limp home when the Adblue tank is empty it also Means they never need to fill it either (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/17163...s=true&ff13=80 )The bus operators are also bypassing start/stop systems on new buses owing to the reliability problems. So much saving the planet

^Qwerty^

Stuff like this has been going on for years on motorbikes. Not as sophisticated, but you only had to look at the torque curve in a certain gear at certain revs to see that the engine went quiet for the drive past noise test(s).

Alan Jeffery

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