GordonShek

Folks

I'm looking to do this course and I'm looking for advice on what I need, i.e. books, software tools etc, etc, etc.

Cheers

Gordon Shek

Mutts Nutts

Hi Gordon,

I have done MCSA & MCSE for 2000 track. Now fitting in study for 2003 upgrades & MCDBA where I can.

I can reply in more later, just logged on quickly and saw your post so this will be a quick ping .

Some quick questions and I can direct the best answers info to you. Do you currently work in IT & what role or are you thinking of a career in IT ?

I have plenty of course materials, study guides and books etc as well as loads of software I can let you have for a small cost..all this stuff costs a fortune as you will no doubt find out , was going to sell this stuff on ebay. but would rather let it got to someone on here .

one of the bigest pieces of advice is 'Real world' & Commercial Experience, beg, borrow, steal some hardware and get a lab environment set up if you can with some clients and servers and practice, practice, practice. there is no better substitue than hands on stuff. You dont need to know that A is the correct answer (you could memory train yourself this on cheat sheets) you need to understand WHY A is the correct answer. or better still WHY the other options are so Stupid and not possibly correct.

anyway waffled on far too long.. I'll pm you some more wafflings


Best Rgds
Steve

Mutts Nutts

Didnt mean to sound like scrooge here, some of this stuff you are more than welcome to have free, it mainly the Study guides that cost Approx £40 each I want to get some money back on, on ebay they only go for a fiver or tenner as there are so many about. I got about 10 or more you could have for a bargain price as a bundle

Danny B

http://www.actualtests.com

Best $99 I ever spent, no one actually studies anymore they just cheat using the above papers

Mutts Nutts

I agree plenty of cram stuff is great if you just want to sit your exams and you already got the skills.

What use is a paper MCSE .

we interview loads and they cant even pass a real world pratical skills test

GordonShek

Guys

Sorry for the late reply, pc's dead, using one from the library!

Cheers for the advice, most appreciated.

Mutts Nutts

I'm not in an IT environment at my work place anymore, I used to though. Worked for Compaq as debug tech, use of cisco equip and started in a group where we set up a customer's environment and ran burn in tests.

Now doing a boring job and want to get back into a place where you need to think for a change .

I agree with you, I'd rather have a MCSE and know what I'm doing rather than having a MCSE and not knowing what I'm doing (i.e. cheating).

And as for course materials, study guides and books etc as well as loads of software, what sort of prices are you talking about? Bearing in mind I'll be a "Fiancially Challenged Student" when I take this course on. But I would prefer to get material only relevant to the most up to date courses as I'm not planning on doing 2000 and upgrading. What's the point?

Anyways, Mutts Nutts

Let me know what you have in mind as regards to a "small fee".

Cheers

Gordon Shek

darlodge

As Steve said,

The best (and IMO the only way) to learn is with equipment.

Grab a few PC's from anywhere (local paper), a 100mb switch and set-up a basic domain, look into Group Policies, Software Distribution, etc. etc. Its all stuff I'd expect MCSE's should have a basic understanding on.

I've met too many paper MCSE's techie's that can't hold a job as they don't have a clue what they are doing.

Some companies will only employ certificated staff, some only employ graduates, some only based on experience. I've found it tends to be the smaller companies that recruit experienced staff and don’t mind about lack of qualifications.

Darren

KiwiGTI

You've met them, our company has employed them

I've found the reverse, and interestingly the higher the contract the less you get grilled. Go for a engineer role and you'll get grilled technically and end up having a couple of interviews (one technical and one meeting the pm or similar)

Go for European Technical Director of a FTSE 100 company and as long as you can have a pleasant chat for 45 minutes with a couple of managers and speak/bluff the right words you'll get the job.

Tall Paul

I have to aree wih everyone about the MCSE.


I used to run pubs and restaurants for 15 years and wanted out. Wanted to get into IT, but with no experience studied for 2 years and got MCSE, MCSA, MCSA+Messaging. The ONLY way to do it is to set your own network at home...I basically bought loads of bits off of e-bay and 'Borrowed' some from friends and family.

I also agree with the term 'Paper MCSE' as I was one! I had no real world experience, butI didn't kid myself thinking that I could walk into a high paying engineering role (That's what annoys me about these trainign courses on the TV)

I started on the IT ladde as 1st line telephone support. Not too demanding, but it does put a lot of what you have learnt into practice. It is also good because you have to think about the problem and resolution on your feet. You don't have the machine in front of you so you have to imagine. Next role was Desktop support and now I am server engineer 2nd/3rd line support.

Work hard and it will pay of, but nothing beats real world experience!


What MCSE are you doing? I have a load of Win 2k training Videos that are very good. PM me if you are interested.

Cheers

Paul

Danny B

If you want some advice, forget the MCSE and get VMware certified. This is a highly sought after qualification that employers will be looking out for.

Too many MCSE's on the market these days, you really need to specialize in something to make any decent money these days. Gone are the early to mid 90's where MCSE's were earning stupid money doing basic NT administration

KiwiGTI

Only problem is many places blindly insist on them so it becomes a must have unfortunately, many agencies won't even forward your CV on.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

What would be more useful to get a good career in IT. Going for an MCSE certification, or going to do an MSc in IT?

Am thinking of a change in career path, the most relevant qualiification I have is a Physics degree from 6 years ago. I have been working in finance since then.

Danny B

If you have a Physics degree then you will sail through an MCSE. No matter what you do if you do something on a regular basis then you will eventually get good at it and the same thing applies for computer related jobs.
My Wife could do my job if she did it for 8hrs a day, 5 days a week... all the MCSE does is get your foot in the door, the rest is on experience.

I've seen guys with accreditations up to their eyeballs and haven't got a clue what to do when a server falls flat on it's back, that's when practical experience comes in to a world of it's own.

Anyway, going back to your original question, get the MCSE not the MSc is my advice as future employers would at least know that you have *some* idea of what your doing even if you have no prior experience.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for your input. I'll now have to see who can do MSCE courses up in the North East of England, preferably Darlington

Danny B

Don't do a "bootcamp" though as many jobs are now advertised as bootcampers need not apply.
A bootcamper is someone who has crammed all the training and passed all 7 exams in one week (see above for paper MCSE)
One a month would be a good goal to aim for.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

OK, will have to look into this a lot more

KiwiGTI

Just how do they know you've done a bootcamp?

Danny B

They look at your transcripts from Microsoft and see the dates you passed.

David_Wallis

Thats the biggest load of bulsh1t Ive heard in a long time - I kind of understand what you are intimating but FFS, some people just shouldnt own a computer, let alone an MCSE.

You've redeemed yourself with the following though!!
Ive got 9yrs 1st hand experience with the following intel / amd based servers...Compaq, HP, IBM, Digital and I hate to say it some old dells.

I work daily with the HP DL series range and have a few hundred or so and if your any good you can tell what a fault is by instinct. If you can build a server properly though, the only thing to worry about is that it was spec'd correctly and hardware faults.. HP faults can be disks failing or dimms failing, and any muppet can swap the part with an orange light next to it!

David

9 Yrs Experience in Server Support (And some desktop support )
Equivalent Knowledge to an MCSE in NT3.51, NT4, 2000, and 2003

PS my claim to fame was the youngest ever MCP in europe at the age of 15.. sad but
Since been beaten!

Danny B

What I meant was, if you have studied Physics at University for 3 years then in comparison *passing* (not understanding) an MCSE is a piece of ****. It's all about knowledge retention and most graduates should be good at this.

On a different subject, do you have any ML370G3's at your place? we are getting loads of fan bus failures these days which end up getting the sys brd replaced.
Was wondering if this was a know problem?

darlodge

David,

Being the youngest MCP is not something I'd shout about

Darren

David_Wallis

We do have some - not many though, we use predominantley the DL series.. no failures other than disks iirc though.

Darren Nor is having 9years industry experience at the age of 25 and a bit
Being thrown in at the deepend at a young age counts for a lot.

David

john coffey

never mind the equivalent knowledge excuse, do you have an MCSE or not?

KiwiGTI

Say you block booked them. Do you do exams at bootcamps or do they just give you the vouchers and then you book your own afterwards?

druddle

Thank god someone has their finger on the pulse !!! I would say you need the MS/Linux knowledge and experience first, but there are some massive opportunities for VMWare skills, especially with the blade server/utility computing environments...

Dave

David_Wallis

excuse??

I used to work for a training company so I know how easy and how hard some of the adaptive tests can be, I also know the ways around them that used to exist..

I have done Loads of the official microsoft courses over the past years, and can easily score a good enough percentage when trying the tests to pass the exams. I just choose not to do the exams due to work commitments.

Knowledge is better than a piece of paper in my current job.

For example..

I've implemented SMS 1.2 - 2.0 - 2003 across 6 sites, 2 countries and 15,000+ Devices. If you have ever used SMS then tell me what 'support skills' you gain by running the log analyser on multiple log files for the CAP and distribution points?? (which is all they really teach you on the courses)

NONE. Anyone that uses SMS will tell you that its a bitch to install and configure and unless you know what you are doing then it just refuses to work.

FFS one of the official MS Courses for SMS 2003 discusses how you go about setting up a project to implement it. Discusses getting board level sponsorship, finance etc..

John, What Qualifications do you have, and then what experience do you have, software / hardware?

David

Danny B

AFAIK you do them on the 7 day course.

john coffey

Sat the course but never took the exam..hmm sounds like you bottled it.

I don't work in IT thank God, can't stand the thought of being sat in front of a computer screen all day. I much prefer building houses I'm qualified in mixing up muck, 4-1 is my speciality

David_Wallis

Take the **** all you like, I have a good reputation at work, and I take pride in my work and also being good at what I do.

The fact that you dont work in IT and think you are qualified to comment is laughable. I guess your one of these people that thinks running windows xp on a machine with a big hard disk, too much memory, a fast network connection (100mbps or 1gbps) and leaving the machine on 24x7 means its a server

David