382.8bhp from a VF35 :)
09 October 2010, 12:59 PM
#151
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09 October 2010, 01:32 PM
#152
I had the wastegate ported on my VF34, this was in anticipation of boost creep from the 2.5 conversion I had done last year. On the 2litre the VF34 had netted 350hp at best but was more realistically doing 340hp. On the completed conversion, which had WRX heads, HP figures were a dissappointing 336, 350hp was an expected figure, torque was up at 376.
Trev
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09 October 2010, 01:40 PM
#153
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I had the wastegate ported on my VF34, this was in anticipation of boost creep from the 2.5 conversion I had done last year. On the 2litre the VF34 had netted 350hp at best but was more realistically doing 340hp. On the completed conversion, which had WRX heads, HP figures were a dissappointing 336, 350hp was an expected figure, torque was up at 376.
Trev
Trev
By making the wastegate port bigger you make it easier for the exhaust gas to press open the wastegate from inside the turbine housing that combined with a 2 port solenoid boost control system can lead to wastegate creep giving you a lazy spool, by fitting a stronger actuator you get better spool off the mark and it will hold better boost top end if required. I have yet to try this out on a 2.5 so I can really comment much futher sorry.
Cheers Iain
09 October 2010, 02:26 PM
#154
Porting the WG on a VF35 and fitting an uprated actuator does not turn it into a 380 bhp turbo and there are a lot of potentially very diappointed people out there if they actually believe that.
Neither of these mods, porting the WG or adding a stronger actuator add to ultimate power per se.
Porting the WG is done to avoid or overcome boost creep. There will be a small efficiency improvement in doing so but not to account for a big bhp jump.
Not all turbos require WG porting.
The purpose of an uprated actuator is to hold the WG shut to a higher boost point, after which, the boost is controlled by the WG actuator fed via the ECU or separate electronic boost controller or even mechanical air bleed valve.
I actually gave you a lot more information and comment on another thread.
https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...ti-bugeye.html
post 33 from memory.
I do not want to detract from your excellent results. However,the figures are skewed so if you are lucky you may have 360bhp or a little more, at best. Still exceptional and to your great creit but please do not lead people to believe they will can get 380 bhp from a VF35 and uprated actuator, neither of which can have much effect on ultimate power output.
Neither of these mods, porting the WG or adding a stronger actuator add to ultimate power per se.
Porting the WG is done to avoid or overcome boost creep. There will be a small efficiency improvement in doing so but not to account for a big bhp jump.
Not all turbos require WG porting.
The purpose of an uprated actuator is to hold the WG shut to a higher boost point, after which, the boost is controlled by the WG actuator fed via the ECU or separate electronic boost controller or even mechanical air bleed valve.
I actually gave you a lot more information and comment on another thread.
https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...ti-bugeye.html
post 33 from memory.
I do not want to detract from your excellent results. However,the figures are skewed so if you are lucky you may have 360bhp or a little more, at best. Still exceptional and to your great creit but please do not lead people to believe they will can get 380 bhp from a VF35 and uprated actuator, neither of which can have much effect on ultimate power output.
09 October 2010, 02:33 PM
#155
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Porting the WG on a VF35 and fitting an uprated actuator does not turn it into a 380 bhp turbo and there are a lot of potentially very diappointed people out there if they actually believe that.
Neither of these mods, porting the WG or adding a stronger actuator add to ultimate power per se.
Porting the WG is done to avoid or overcome boost creep. There will be a small efficiency improvement in doing so but not to account for a big bhp jump.
Not all turbos require WG porting.
The purpose of an uprated actuator is to hold the WG shut to a higher boost point, after which, the boost is controlled by the WG actuator fed via the ECU or separate electronic boost controller or even mechanical air bleed valve.
I actually gave you a lot more information and comment on another thread.
https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...ti-bugeye.html
post 33 from memory.
I do not want to detract from your excellent results. However,the figures are skewed so if you are lucky you may have 360bhp or a little more, at best. Still exceptional and to your great creit but please do not lead people to believe they will can get 380 bhp from a VF35 and uprated actuator, neither of which can have much effect on ultimate power output.
Neither of these mods, porting the WG or adding a stronger actuator add to ultimate power per se.
Porting the WG is done to avoid or overcome boost creep. There will be a small efficiency improvement in doing so but not to account for a big bhp jump.
Not all turbos require WG porting.
The purpose of an uprated actuator is to hold the WG shut to a higher boost point, after which, the boost is controlled by the WG actuator fed via the ECU or separate electronic boost controller or even mechanical air bleed valve.
I actually gave you a lot more information and comment on another thread.
https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...ti-bugeye.html
post 33 from memory.
I do not want to detract from your excellent results. However,the figures are skewed so if you are lucky you may have 360bhp or a little more, at best. Still exceptional and to your great creit but please do not lead people to believe they will can get 380 bhp from a VF35 and uprated actuator, neither of which can have much effect on ultimate power output.
After all this time having people badger me to go and get a Dyno run to prove my figures and see what Bhp I was running to see me into the 11s at Santa Pod it was all a big waste of time and the figures are not even accurate by as much as 20bhp, so what is accurate then who do I have to go and see to get an accurate dyno printout as this has really hacked me off.
Cheers Iain
09 October 2010, 02:37 PM
#156
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Sorry if I have mislead anyone into thinking that the VF35 can pull 380bhp, please dont hold it against me I just took my car to a dyno (at the request of others) and that is what I came back with.
Oh well I will just have to make do with my mere 360bhp 11sec 1/4 mile VF35 classic then
Cheers Iain
Oh well I will just have to make do with my mere 360bhp 11sec 1/4 mile VF35 classic then
Cheers Iain
09 October 2010, 03:17 PM
#158
Nothing shabby with an 11.8? quarter mile. Almost good enough to win Scooby Shootout a few years ago. The fact you can do this on a VF35 is a fantastic achievment but do not attribute mystical properties to WG porting and an uprated actuator.
The problem starts with a skewed RR result. If the ambient was in the teens then why was IAT 40 odd? That is probably a genuine error but it needs put right before your actual figure is credible. Len may be able to tell you the correction factor applied. Martyn who runs a DD RR says 3%. By rule of thumb I guess 4% but so what, your engine in your car with a VF35 is still outperforming all other VF35s we know of so still a fantastic achievement for you, your engine, spec, turbo and mapper.
You might want to read a few books relating to turbo charging specifically and petrol engine tuning in general, such as Forced Performance, cannot remember the author or Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. This will give you a great insight into WGs, uprated actuators and tuning in general.
When you next run on a rolling road, hopefully a DynoDynamics to be meaningful or even the same one again, see if you can observe the air charge temperatures. (Not IT= Inlet Temperature or AT= Ambient Temperature) You can learn a great deal from this. In addition, generally, every 4 degrees centigrade drop in ACT is 1% power gain or another way, every 4 deg C rise in ACT is a 1% power loss.
The problem starts with a skewed RR result. If the ambient was in the teens then why was IAT 40 odd? That is probably a genuine error but it needs put right before your actual figure is credible. Len may be able to tell you the correction factor applied. Martyn who runs a DD RR says 3%. By rule of thumb I guess 4% but so what, your engine in your car with a VF35 is still outperforming all other VF35s we know of so still a fantastic achievement for you, your engine, spec, turbo and mapper.
You might want to read a few books relating to turbo charging specifically and petrol engine tuning in general, such as Forced Performance, cannot remember the author or Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. This will give you a great insight into WGs, uprated actuators and tuning in general.
When you next run on a rolling road, hopefully a DynoDynamics to be meaningful or even the same one again, see if you can observe the air charge temperatures. (Not IT= Inlet Temperature or AT= Ambient Temperature) You can learn a great deal from this. In addition, generally, every 4 degrees centigrade drop in ACT is 1% power gain or another way, every 4 deg C rise in ACT is a 1% power loss.
09 October 2010, 03:31 PM
#159
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Nothing shabby with an 11.8? quarter mile. Almost good enough to win Scooby Shootout a few years ago. The fact you can do this on a VF35 is a fantastic achievment but do not attribute mystical properties to WG porting and an uprated actuator.
The problem starts with a skewed RR result. If the ambient was in the teens then why was IAT 40 odd? That is probably a genuine error but it needs put right before your actual figure is credible. Len may be able to tell you the correction factor applied. Martyn who runs a DD RR says 3%. By rule of thumb I guess 4% but so what, your engine in your car with a VF35 is still outperforming all other VF35s we know of so still a fantastic achievement for you, your engine, spec, turbo and mapper.
You might want to read a few books relating to turbo charging specifically and petrol engine tuning in general, such as Forced Performance, cannot remember the author or Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. This will give you a great insight into WGs, uprated actuators and tuning in general.
When you next run on a rolling road, hopefully a DynoDynamics to be meaningful or even the same one again, see if you can observe the air charge temperatures. (Not IT= Inlet Temperature or AT= Ambient Temperature) You can learn a great deal from this. In addition, generally, every 4 degrees centigrade drop in ACT is 1% power gain or another way, every 4 deg C rise in ACT is a 1% power loss.
The problem starts with a skewed RR result. If the ambient was in the teens then why was IAT 40 odd? That is probably a genuine error but it needs put right before your actual figure is credible. Len may be able to tell you the correction factor applied. Martyn who runs a DD RR says 3%. By rule of thumb I guess 4% but so what, your engine in your car with a VF35 is still outperforming all other VF35s we know of so still a fantastic achievement for you, your engine, spec, turbo and mapper.
You might want to read a few books relating to turbo charging specifically and petrol engine tuning in general, such as Forced Performance, cannot remember the author or Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. This will give you a great insight into WGs, uprated actuators and tuning in general.
When you next run on a rolling road, hopefully a DynoDynamics to be meaningful or even the same one again, see if you can observe the air charge temperatures. (Not IT= Inlet Temperature or AT= Ambient Temperature) You can learn a great deal from this. In addition, generally, every 4 degrees centigrade drop in ACT is 1% power gain or another way, every 4 deg C rise in ACT is a 1% power loss.
Cheers Iain
09 October 2010, 04:52 PM
#160
I have gone back and looked at your rolling road graph 14AT and 43IT.
I have also looked at a graph posted by JGM on the Scooby Clinic turbo thread for a rolling road run at S4U yesterday I think. 650 odd bhp or more. Look at the AT and IT.
Now when you put your car back on the rollers be very happy with 355 bhp or anything over providing the IT and AT are recorded properly and also observe where your ACTs go as read by the Simtek as this will give you pointers to further improvements on the car generally.
I sincerely recommend to you the two books I mentioned previously which will assist your understanding.
I have also looked at a graph posted by JGM on the Scooby Clinic turbo thread for a rolling road run at S4U yesterday I think. 650 odd bhp or more. Look at the AT and IT.
Now when you put your car back on the rollers be very happy with 355 bhp or anything over providing the IT and AT are recorded properly and also observe where your ACTs go as read by the Simtek as this will give you pointers to further improvements on the car generally.
I sincerely recommend to you the two books I mentioned previously which will assist your understanding.
09 October 2010, 04:56 PM
#161
PS: Any VF35 running over a genuine 340 bhp is doing very well and anything over 350 bhp is the exception. I am sure yours is the exception but if Len works out the correction factor or better still has it on his software for 14AT 43IT I think you will be a long way closer to the facts. Still a great result just not 380 bhp from a VF35 at 1.4 bar on road fuel.
09 October 2010, 04:59 PM
#162
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._1853105_n.jpg
3 degrees difference not 29 degrees. If there was a 29 degree difference think how much more power you could make.
3 degrees difference not 29 degrees. If there was a 29 degree difference think how much more power you could make.
09 October 2010, 06:57 PM
#164
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2005 STI 2.0lt PPP, last of the Blobs!
Ported the exhaust manifold, up-pipe (Venturi version), intercooler Y-pipe, throttle body.
CDF Racing lightweight pulley set with under-drive pulleys
GGR induction kit with custom insulated air feed.
Front subframe removed
And remapped 50-60 times.
Ported the exhaust manifold, up-pipe (Venturi version), intercooler Y-pipe, throttle body.
CDF Racing lightweight pulley set with under-drive pulleys
GGR induction kit with custom insulated air feed.
Front subframe removed
And remapped 50-60 times.
Also, why remove your subframe? What do you replace it with? Sorry if this is a stupid question.
Last edited by fastboyslim; 09 October 2010 at 06:58 PM.
09 October 2010, 07:16 PM
#165
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I am in the process of finding all my previous graphs, prior to this latest run but for now here is a quick run down of what I have done to get where I am today.
Got the car as Std fitted a Walbro fuel pump, a VF35 (unported wastegate) and an Apexi Avcr, and had it mapped to run on V-Power, the car made 310bhp at the fly (1.25 Bar peak boost) and ran a 13.1 at Santa Pod.
Next I fitted an AB88 FMIC and full decat, (VF35 still unported) and went back for a further map, the car made 325bhp at the fly (1.35 Bar peak boost)and ran a 12.8 at Santa Pod.
Fitted a full afterburner exhaust inc headers and up-pipe and at this point ported the wastegate and fitted an uprated actuator rated at approx 0.85bar. Went for a further map the car made 349.8bhp at the fly (1.35 Bar peak Boost) and ran a 12.4 at Santa Pod, I then changed the actuator spring rate to 1.0 Bar base pressure and tweaked the boost control to suit and the car then ran 12.2 at Santa pod.
So now we get to the fun part, I now add 550cc injectors, parrallel fuel rails and a Mini Fuel Lab FPR set to 3 Bar and a set of NGK PFR7B plugs gapped to 0.65mm and take the car to Bob R for the Simtek treatment, he maps the car @ approx 1.4 Bar and will take 1.5 happily. I then go to Santa Pod and run an 11.8 @ 1.4 Bar on V power and get a dyno printout for 380bhp on V Power.
All of the above data is as true as the graphs and slips they are printed on I just cant find the 349bhp graph at the mo but will happily get a copy emailed to me. The IT and AT are good on the other graphs ie AT=15 and IT=17, the car has been on Yokohama Parada spec 2 tyres since I took ownership of it so they are a constant. Now to go from a 12.2 down to an 11.8 (and she will go quicker) took a fair bit of torque and BHP to do, so I doubt that I am sat with a 355 or 360 bhp car end of, believe what you will but this car is sat with the very least 370bhp and I will prove it, there is no way I dropped nearly 0.5 of a second with just a rise of just 10bhp and I would certainly say that Bob managed to get more than a further 10bhp out of my car on its last map
.
Make of it what you will, I know my car
Cheers Iain
Got the car as Std fitted a Walbro fuel pump, a VF35 (unported wastegate) and an Apexi Avcr, and had it mapped to run on V-Power, the car made 310bhp at the fly (1.25 Bar peak boost) and ran a 13.1 at Santa Pod.
Next I fitted an AB88 FMIC and full decat, (VF35 still unported) and went back for a further map, the car made 325bhp at the fly (1.35 Bar peak boost)and ran a 12.8 at Santa Pod.
Fitted a full afterburner exhaust inc headers and up-pipe and at this point ported the wastegate and fitted an uprated actuator rated at approx 0.85bar. Went for a further map the car made 349.8bhp at the fly (1.35 Bar peak Boost) and ran a 12.4 at Santa Pod, I then changed the actuator spring rate to 1.0 Bar base pressure and tweaked the boost control to suit and the car then ran 12.2 at Santa pod.
So now we get to the fun part, I now add 550cc injectors, parrallel fuel rails and a Mini Fuel Lab FPR set to 3 Bar and a set of NGK PFR7B plugs gapped to 0.65mm and take the car to Bob R for the Simtek treatment, he maps the car @ approx 1.4 Bar and will take 1.5 happily. I then go to Santa Pod and run an 11.8 @ 1.4 Bar on V power and get a dyno printout for 380bhp on V Power.
All of the above data is as true as the graphs and slips they are printed on I just cant find the 349bhp graph at the mo but will happily get a copy emailed to me. The IT and AT are good on the other graphs ie AT=15 and IT=17, the car has been on Yokohama Parada spec 2 tyres since I took ownership of it so they are a constant. Now to go from a 12.2 down to an 11.8 (and she will go quicker) took a fair bit of torque and BHP to do, so I doubt that I am sat with a 355 or 360 bhp car end of, believe what you will but this car is sat with the very least 370bhp and I will prove it, there is no way I dropped nearly 0.5 of a second with just a rise of just 10bhp and I would certainly say that Bob managed to get more than a further 10bhp out of my car on its last map
.Make of it what you will, I know my car
Cheers Iain
Last edited by Big 'D'; 09 October 2010 at 07:18 PM. Reason: edit text
09 October 2010, 09:35 PM
#167
09 October 2010, 09:47 PM
#168
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Got the car as Std fitted a Walbro fuel pump, a VF35 (unported wastegate) and an Apexi Avcr, and had it mapped to run on V-Power
Next I fitted an AB88 FMIC and full decat, (VF35 still unported) and went back for a further map
Fitted a full afterburner exhaust inc headers and up-pipe and at this point ported the wastegate and fitted an uprated actuator rated at approx 0.85bar. Went for a further map the car made 349.8bhp at the fly (1.35 Bar peak Boost) and ran a 12.4 at Santa Pod, I then changed the actuator spring rate to 1.0 Bar base pressure and tweaked the boost control to suit and the car then ran 12.2 at Santa pod.
So now we get to the fun part, I now add 550cc injectors, parrallel fuel rails and a Mini Fuel Lab FPR set to 3 Bar and a set of NGK PFR7B plugs gapped to 0.65mm and take the car to Bob R for the Simtek treatment, he maps the car @ approx 1.4 Bar and will take 1.5 happily. I then go to Santa Pod and run an 11.8 @ 1.4 Bar on V power and get a dyno printout for 380bhp on V Power.
Make of it what you will, I know my car
Next I fitted an AB88 FMIC and full decat, (VF35 still unported) and went back for a further map
Fitted a full afterburner exhaust inc headers and up-pipe and at this point ported the wastegate and fitted an uprated actuator rated at approx 0.85bar. Went for a further map the car made 349.8bhp at the fly (1.35 Bar peak Boost) and ran a 12.4 at Santa Pod, I then changed the actuator spring rate to 1.0 Bar base pressure and tweaked the boost control to suit and the car then ran 12.2 at Santa pod.
So now we get to the fun part, I now add 550cc injectors, parrallel fuel rails and a Mini Fuel Lab FPR set to 3 Bar and a set of NGK PFR7B plugs gapped to 0.65mm and take the car to Bob R for the Simtek treatment, he maps the car @ approx 1.4 Bar and will take 1.5 happily. I then go to Santa Pod and run an 11.8 @ 1.4 Bar on V power and get a dyno printout for 380bhp on V Power.
Make of it what you will, I know my car
Also, what is the engine spec? 2.0, 2.1, 2.33 etc, as I've not seen any mention to this.
09 October 2010, 09:55 PM
#169
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Trust me there is nothing laggy about this car, I should have let you take her out when I was down at Subaru4U. The boost control setup is on the safe side but trust me out on the road it is savage
The initial wastegate port introduced lag I put that down to the increased area open to the exhaust gas so I countered it with the stronger actuator and this made the spool way better than even standard, I would put any lag from low revs in 3rd down the the headers really but they come into play later so I dont see it as an issue, I easy see full boost in all gears esp if I use launch control with 1st
Cheers Iain
09 October 2010, 09:56 PM
#170
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Cheers Iain
09 October 2010, 09:58 PM
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09 October 2010, 10:10 PM
#172
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Fao JGM, I just looked at the first graphs I have for the 310/325 bhp range and interestingly even with the headers on (and they did introduce a fair bit of lag) it still makes 1.0bar at 4000rpm which is what it did when I first had it mapped, the difference is when you come up through the gears, oh boy does she shift then the spool is insane. More than happy for you to take her out for a run its better than taking my word for it 
Cheers Iain
Cheers Iain
09 October 2010, 10:11 PM
#173
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Subframe = 18kg of bendy metal weight on the front half that the car doesn't need. By shedding that I improved the car's turn in response considerably.
09 October 2010, 10:24 PM
#174
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I was just playing devil advocate.. it doesn't spool like a 35.. so the benefit of a 35 is lost and I wondered if that was since you did the porting or not, you may as well have an 18g/20g etc.. although possibly cheaper. etc..
Simon
Simon
09 October 2010, 10:28 PM
#175
Fatboyslim: Simon (JGM) posted a graph on the Scoobyclinic billet turbo thread with 669 bhp. Look at the IT and AT on that graph. This is where Big D's 382 figure comes from, the air temperature discrepancy and despite that I am sure he has achieved a tremendous result for a VF35 at 1.4 bar on road petrol.
https://www.scoobynet.com/799025-sco...better-38.html
post 1121 I think.
https://www.scoobynet.com/799025-sco...better-38.html
post 1121 I think.
09 October 2010, 10:29 PM
#176
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Cheers Iain
09 October 2010, 10:39 PM
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Sounds like a re dyno is on the cards , I have no idea why the IT is so high it is not my doing and I cannot explain it. I get the feeling that even if it pulled 380 with the it at 17 deg you would still dispute it, thats fine I dont mind.
Regards any lag issues I may have watch this and see if you can see any
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aih8Ny9J0E
Just to add this was my 2nd fastest run the next run was my fastest @ 11.80 at 111mph.
Cheers Iain
, I have no idea why the IT is so high it is not my doing and I cannot explain it. I get the feeling that even if it pulled 380 with the it at 17 deg you would still dispute it, thats fine I dont mind.Regards any lag issues I may have watch this and see if you can see any
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aih8Ny9J0E
Just to add this was my 2nd fastest run the next run was my fastest @ 11.80 at 111mph.
Cheers Iain
09 October 2010, 10:47 PM
#179
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Sounds like a re dyno is on the cards , I have no idea why the IT is so high it is not my doing and I cannot explain it. I get the feeling that even if it pulled 380 with the it at 17 deg you would still dispute it, thats fine I dont mind.
Regards any lag issues I may have watch this and see if you can see any
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aih8Ny9J0E
Just to add this was my 2nd fastest run the next run was my fastest @ 11.80 at 111mph.
Cheers Iain
, I have no idea why the IT is so high it is not my doing and I cannot explain it. I get the feeling that even if it pulled 380 with the it at 17 deg you would still dispute it, thats fine I dont mind.Regards any lag issues I may have watch this and see if you can see any
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aih8Ny9J0E
Just to add this was my 2nd fastest run the next run was my fastest @ 11.80 at 111mph.
Cheers Iain
09 October 2010, 10:49 PM
#180
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Just to add a quote from Bob, he said that my turbo had the spool of a 16g but the top end benefits of the 18g all in one, now I am not one for lying or bull**** and I do know that Bob does not mince his words. My VF35 spools like a mad thing through the gears (it is savage and relentless) I could not care less what it does in 3rd on the dyno really.
Cheers Iain
Cheers Iain