JTaylor

Oh goodness, another thicky. God and Allah are the same being, Christians and Muslims differ on Christ being the Son of God; Muslims ackowledge Christ as a simple phrophet but hold Mohammed to be the bestest phrophet.

andythejock01wrx

Good day Les. Agree that it's disappointing that people find the need to be insulting when debating their beliefs!

Fair point on the above (I think that Hawkins tries to argue that, based on "string theory", matter has always existed, but he hasn't explained it in a way I can follow it, lol!). However, this comes back to the "Who made God?" question. I know that the standard answer is that he's always been there, but I think if we're honest that's a bit of a cop-out! If we can say that God has always existed we might as well say that the universe has always existed and there is no need for God!

All in good heart, etc.

Andy

EddScott

Thing is, humans are self aware. We question what happens to us when we die. Because we couldn't adequately explain what happens to us when we die we created religion/gods.

However, it would be nice if there is an afterlife of some sort because ceasing to exist doesn't sound like much fun.

I don't believe in god or the devil (if you believe in one then surely both must exist?) but it wouldn't suprise me if theres truth in ghosts (perhaps driven by a sub layer of our subconscious we aren't completely aware of)

EddScott

The second coming of EddScott

SRSport

No they arent. The Bible doesnt refer to Allah at all. God yes Allah no.

JTaylor

What a feckin' spaz!

Martin2005

please tell me this is a joke

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

I'd love to see the Pope, the Archbishop of Canterbury, or any of the other leaders of the world's organized religions go on record saying that:
"Oh, by the way chaps and chapesses, none of this stuff we've been preaching at you out of our sacred texts for hundreds of years was real or anything, it was just symbolic. Y'all didn't actually go and believe it, did you?"

I can just picture it now

salsa-king

It's great to read what ppl put on SN about religion.

I've not been brought up in a religious family, other than going to church with Cubs/scouts (C of E)... then when a bit older went to the evangelical church up the road to the youth club..(cus free sweets were given out lol)..kept going to the sunday skool upto my late teen, then dropped off from going. then re started CofE when we got married 4years ago.. and kept going on a regular basics since then (at least once a month)
and I'm no happy clapper.

but with some of the comments mentioned by 'non church goers' the same sort of questions get mentioned with are typical to a 'non believer'.

1. the bible is a book... a made up story book!

yep, some of it is, the old testament is written in a way to to make it easier to us to understand'
A. we all know the God didn't create the world in 6days.
B. Adam and eve weren't the only ppl to be created.... Adam coming from the Hebrew word for man.
C. adam and eve had two sons... Cain and Able.... but Cain killed Able and was sent away... with his wife!!! so where did she come from... was it his sister... No. So there was more 'Man' around than A&E in the beginning.

the New testament, could be looked more as a book of history of what when off around the time of Christ.... (books, mathew/mark/luke/john)
The oldest copy of a 'book/bible' is in Manchester university, its translation can pinpoint certain times in history that we can now prove with the aid of science and archeology finds.


I'm no religious oracle, but would say to anyone who has question that they want answering about Christianity, ask a Vicar.

and no, Allah is not the same god as the Christian God.

Islam came about 500years after Christ, with Mohammed being spoken to by Allah.

Christanity came about with God speaking to Moses (etc)...God sending HIS son Jesus.
Jesus Living and dieing and this being witnessed by others...(hence written about in he bible).


As far as i know there is no other regilion in the world other than christianity that has a god who sends is 'son' (in life form) that others have seen him.




At the end of the day it all comes down to faith and belief, thankfully i live in a country that allows ppl have this, to think and put on SN what their views are..... LOL

it all had to start somewhere from something by someone.

there's plenty of things us meer mortals are will never understand ans its all much deeper than our brains or MrHorking's brain can take in.

but next time you look out the window, seeing trees/fields/flowers etc,
think...
what are we here for...
there must be more to life than being born and dying.





here ends the thought for today. lol

SRSport

JTaylor and Martin where does the Bible call God Allah?

dj219957

i cant be arsed to read the whole thread but i burst out laughing when i heard this latest one. well done mate, i knew this from about 12 years old.
it just makes him look stupid and desperate for tv coverage.

andythejock01wrx

Interesting post Salsa.

Presumably you agree that what you say about Adam & Eve not having been the only people to have been created (Genesis) is not std CofE teaching?

As for your last comment, from a Christian perspective, what are we here for?

cheers,

Andy

Martin2005

it doen't, but why is that important?

warrenm2

WHY? SAYS WHO? WITH WHAT EVIDENCE?

Again, WHY? SAYS WHO?

Look, if you feel your understanding of life and the universe is so limited you need to make up sky fairies to explain it, that's your look out. Feel free to hold whatever fantasies makes your clock tick.

Equally don't expect to come onto a public forum and air those same fantasies and think that any rational person will enter into your delusions and not expose the huge gaping holes in your reasoning (or lack of as the case may be).

SRSport

It was in reply to this. If God was Allah then there would be reference to his name...and why would this be a joke?

what would scooby do

You are missing the point, bibles and korans were written by "humans" based on previous belief systems. One branch went forward into islam, the other into christianity (ignoring the judens for now).

What the creator is called depends on the story and each party is protective of their system (and revenue in it)

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Do the tiniest bit of reading.

Allah is simply Arabic for 'The God'.

The Bible was not written in Arabic so, yes, Allah does not appear in the Bible.

SRSport

When the meats gone the laughing hyenas move in. Its been good fellas but the substance has gone and Im off with my pride. Until the next one in 6 months.

Edit: Sorry Trout I didnt see your post before I posted mine. When God is referred to as Allah it is in a different sense and a different meaning to the Christian God. They may have adopted the Bible but when Allah is referred to,there are differences. It all stemmed from a comment on page 5 that I didnt agree with. I firmly believe that 'Allah' and the 'God' that I know is very different.
I had left this thread due to the descent in to name calling and childish behaviour that threads like this always seem to end up with. It starts of well but when the main points are exhausted it goes down hill to small and picky matters that get chewed around and around which are normally accompanied by silly remarks, your second post down being a good example.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

...

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Oh dear, you don't like the kids scoring a goal so you are taking your ball away.

Look, you've dropped something...

GlesgaKiss

You are kidding me? You must be trolling.

Reason and observation... Dogma??! What do you mean by 'hinting at a truth beyond science'? Again, this is just another way of trying to make something up and then call it the truth.

And yes, unbelievably I have morals, love and desire despite being cursed by the hideous dogma of reason and logic. It's just that when I can't understand something, I don't have to satisfy myself by believing a story for which there is no evidence, merely for the sake of clearing up a loose end..

Martin2005

Reading this thread I think there is reason for optimism for anyone who does believe in god!!

Given that 'WARRENM2' has a near perfect record of being wrong on just about everything, his arrogant and unashamed pronouncement of there being no god, should serve as strong evidence to the contrary.

Im off to church this weekend now

fast bloke

God and global warming...... how does that work then? Did he give us cars and petrol so we could destroy ourselves, or is this a special 'end of days' test. Did he put the oil in the ground to give us a way to test ourselves, or was that just a fluke of nature..... oh -hang on - you can't have a fluke of nature if you are a god botherer, so he must have done it as a test. So the obvious story is that god created Adam and Eve (and a bunch of other people apparently) subsequently drowned them all because his first attempt was crap, allowed a new mankind to spring from the loins of Noah after a few rainy weeks, then decided to provide them with several self destruct buttons a few millenia later. Sounds a bit sick to me..... If you are all powerful, would you not try to be nice as well. If I was in charge of everything, the first thing I would do is work out which worshippers are correct and make all the other ones who are making stuff up suffer.

Then again, if I was a sick fek, maybe I would make 'my own children' suffer as well.

The only thing I can conclude from this is that, if god does actaully exist, it doesn't matter, because I have better morals

tony de wonderful

That is idiotic. You think most Christians interpret the bible literaly?

Symbolism is real, it's another form of truth.

tony de wonderful

...and science is'nt?

tony de wonderful

Is art 'made up' then? It hints at truths which are non-literal - good art anyway. You can interpret high art intellectually and yet miss it's meaning...not comprehend it. It's another form of truth.

Why have morals then? Are they dictated by 'logic'? No they are not. Pure logic and reason can justify Auschwitz as much as humanism.

Jimbob

iTrader: (13)

Lol. I have chortled reading this.

The universe was created in one point of space, and at one point in time.
How and why is unknown.

All religions except one really have a God, some have many Gods being the different actions and arms of the same God.
All Gods are the one same God, irrespective of their name/names.

99% of religions are mans way of explaining things they don`t understand, and also as a code (law) on how to live in large communities. They tell stories of bad things that have happened, and how we should live our lives to stop that happening, and also what to do in the event it does happen.

As for Islam and Christianity, they share the same roots, they share the same teachings. Stemming from early Judaism which the Old Testament is basically the Torah Scrolls (Jewish holy books). Islam says that Mohammed (pbuh) spoke to Allah, but in the Quran it states it cannot have been God but the Arch Angel Gabriel (think that sounds familiar to a fair few of us).
The only "issue" between the two religions on a fundamental level, is that Islam believes basically God is God and we are all Humans and so no human can be the son of god (as God doesn`t need any help) and that Jesus is infact a servent of God and has risen (same as Mohammed (pbuh). Jesus himself referred to us all as the sons of god (as God created us), and never reffered to himself as "THE Son of God" he also never referred to the Holy Trinity of The Father The Son and The Holy Ghost.

The "problem" with The Bible is that it is not current to Jesus, but was compiled 300+ years after his death, by Christian canons who wrote down different versions of the spoken word, and also added to the stories and dropped bits out. Where as the Quran was a written down and then copied and NEVER changed, there are plenty of Interpretations and teachings based on people opinions on what is meant in the Quran, and same as The Bible it can be made to imply what ever you want. This is where the fundamentalists twist things to "prove" what they want in ANY religion.

Its these people who search for "proof" of what they want to believe in these books that cause the problems, as the books are loose and not precise, so can easily be interpreted in many ways.

Buddhism is a very different kettle of fish tho, its a philosophy. But is a religion as it believes in reincarnation until enlightenment and the arrival at Nirvana (not the rock band).


Me I`m an agnostic, don`t follow any religion really, but do think that there is something more to this universe than we can understand. Science is explaining more and more about our world, but the more and more we uncover the more and more we don`t understand. I`d love to know that when I die something other than all that I am goes, that my thoughts feelings and experiences don`t get lost, and that there is more to existence than to just procreate and continue my genetics. Logically that seems to be not possible, and that it is just wishful thinking, and that scares the **** out of me tbqh.
I have avidly followed Steven Hawkins and have read a fair few of his books, but I don`t think he can prove God doesn`t exist, same as Religious people cannot prove God does exist. Its the way religion iterfeers with human development and the way it can be used to keep the population down that I think he is reffering to. And that I agree with Dawkins in that children should be taught the scientific explination, and not to believe everything they read. As they can challenge science, in some cultures Religion cannot be challenged and that is wrong.

I do feel that we need some philosophy/religion in our lives, but mainly so we can live with other people, and to help the people not as fortunate as ourselves. But as for Killing other people because their opinion differs, sure all religions say NOT to kill unless your a Klingon??

Sorry for a long post, but my sis did a degree in religious studies, and have had many many many many late night discussion about things, so have picked up a lot lol. And 99% of people prejudices are due to lack of knowledge about other people and their cultures, and assuming they are right.

salsa-king

well that answer came from our vicar after I ask a load of questions about the said subject, they also said there's a lot we'll never understand.

salsa-king

I'll leave you to keep thinking inside your own little (very small) box then.




Don't worry I'll pray for you on Sunday LoL

tony de wonderful

You are just indoctrinating children with one world view over another

Maybe Science is the better alternative but it's still one form of control.