7500 miles done, engine gone, Subaru saying warranty is invalid
24 April 2010, 12:11 PM
#122
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to put it in context
I have a Toyota Landcruiser -- it has 170,000 miles on it, uses no oil and drives as new
I also have a Audi with 100,000 miles in it, again drives as new -- I would never expect the engine to go south in either cars -- maybe some silly electrical fault but not bearing failure
I have a Caterham7 with an old Ford DOHC engine in it 60 odd thousand miles
I sold a Golf with 127,000 miles to get Subaru Imprezza Turbo 2000 Wagon two years ago
and although it gave me 12 months faultless enjoyable motoring (bought with 96,000 sold with 125,000 miles)
it had had an engine rebuild at 69,000 miles !!!!
Subaru -- seem to have a problem with engine failure
modern engines should not be failing like this full stop
I have a Toyota Landcruiser -- it has 170,000 miles on it, uses no oil and drives as new
I also have a Audi with 100,000 miles in it, again drives as new -- I would never expect the engine to go south in either cars -- maybe some silly electrical fault but not bearing failure
I have a Caterham7 with an old Ford DOHC engine in it 60 odd thousand miles
I sold a Golf with 127,000 miles to get Subaru Imprezza Turbo 2000 Wagon two years ago
and although it gave me 12 months faultless enjoyable motoring (bought with 96,000 sold with 125,000 miles)
it had had an engine rebuild at 69,000 miles !!!!
Subaru -- seem to have a problem with engine failure
modern engines should not be failing like this full stop
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 24 April 2010 at 12:14 PM.
24 April 2010, 01:50 PM
#123
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I don't know what all the fuss is about really, it is well documented that the engine failures (both here and in the USA) were due mainly to the initial ECU map from the factory. The engine is OK it is the ECU map that needs sorting (dealers now re-flash the ECU with a new map at service time). Forged pistons would be even better, but never mind, something to add to the list for later on
I had ringland failure at 8K miles on the factory ECU map (the car was completely standard and well looked after). The matter was dealt with brilliantly under warranty by Subaru UK and a new short engine was fitted.
After running the replacement short engine in I put a full Milltek exhaust system and a Forge/Litchfield CAI on and had a bespoke re-map done.
24K miles since running 365bhp with no problems to date...
I think it's about talking to the right people and knowing the safe limits and restrictions of your car/engine. That's why I want a forged engine build so I can step up to the next level of 400bhp+ when I can afford it
And for the guy on on this thread who said all modified cars are unreliable and you should not modify your car, just buy the one you want instead and leave it standard...I think you might be on the wrong forum mate
I had ringland failure at 8K miles on the factory ECU map (the car was completely standard and well looked after). The matter was dealt with brilliantly under warranty by Subaru UK and a new short engine was fitted.
After running the replacement short engine in I put a full Milltek exhaust system and a Forge/Litchfield CAI on and had a bespoke re-map done.
24K miles since running 365bhp with no problems to date...
I think it's about talking to the right people and knowing the safe limits and restrictions of your car/engine. That's why I want a forged engine build so I can step up to the next level of 400bhp+ when I can afford it
And for the guy on on this thread who said all modified cars are unreliable and you should not modify your car, just buy the one you want instead and leave it standard...I think you might be on the wrong forum mate
Last edited by Dave_P; 24 April 2010 at 02:07 PM.
24 April 2010, 02:26 PM
#128
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Good result but its all still a little worrying
When is mine going to go pop again then done 12500 now so thats total so done circa 4000 on the new short motor so another 4000 miles should fail again???
When is mine going to go pop again then done 12500 now so thats total so done circa 4000 on the new short motor so another 4000 miles should fail again???
24 April 2010, 10:44 PM
#139
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It's so bad in the US that Subaru have issued a recall on the 2.5 engines in the WRX and STi.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1695936
No doubt you'll blame the "fat yanks" for their problems by overlaoding their cars
Pete, are you trying to say that unlike Toyota, Subaru are hiding problems and not fronting up? The engine is pushed to the limit on spec and is not doing well.
I have not heard of JDM 2.0l hatchs have gone bang.
I can understand your brand loyalty but take the rose tinted spec's off and realise Subaru UK/IM are on their uppers and if they are not careful it's bye bye Subaru UK.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1695936
No doubt you'll blame the "fat yanks" for their problems by overlaoding their cars
Pete, are you trying to say that unlike Toyota, Subaru are hiding problems and not fronting up? The engine is pushed to the limit on spec and is not doing well.
I have not heard of JDM 2.0l hatchs have gone bang.
I can understand your brand loyalty but take the rose tinted spec's off and realise Subaru UK/IM are on their uppers and if they are not careful it's bye bye Subaru UK.
In that case, Subaru UK are taking the pi55 out of UK Owners ..... but, that's hardly in their interests is it?
They are losing sales as it is without getting a reputation for selling dangerous/unreliable vehicles .......
I do struggle to believe that Subaru cars are any worse than any other Marque ... indeed, they have a reputation for being far better!
Certainly, my Impreza has been a supreme example of how a car should be built ... but I haven't messed about with it, I haven't tried to make it into something it isn't, I bought the car I wanted. All it has is a backbox change.
Did the car under discussion here have a re-map?
They are losing sales as it is without getting a reputation for selling dangerous/unreliable vehicles .......
I do struggle to believe that Subaru cars are any worse than any other Marque ... indeed, they have a reputation for being far better!
Certainly, my Impreza has been a supreme example of how a car should be built ... but I haven't messed about with it, I haven't tried to make it into something it isn't, I bought the car I wanted. All it has is a backbox change.
Did the car under discussion here have a re-map?
I think that it is despicable that despite there being a recall being issued in the USA that in the UK the owners are left to fight it out with the dealer, I seriously think that VOSA should get involved and bring IM / Subaru to task.
This is not to mention the problem with fuel leakage (a very serious safety issue which IM / Subaru have kept quiet about) on non JDM Bugeye models (again carried out as a recall in the USA) and the head gasket problem which is prone to failure on the 2.5 WRX / STi models as well.
How many customers have had to pay out thousands of £'s in order to repair design faults which should have been covered out under a goodwill / vehicle recall scheme?
I do not think that Subaru will be winning the JD Power survey for some time to come with their obvious lack of customer care.
24 April 2010, 10:49 PM
#140
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Yes, probably after realising that they were on a hiding to nothing, if it went to court there is no way that the exhaust modification could have contributed to the engine failure.
Pete, if the OP had changed his wheels for aftermarket items (assuming that they were the same size, offset etc) and he suffered a wheel bearing failure would IM / Subaru blame the wheels for the wheel bearing failure?
Perhaps you could check with your good friend (as you have claimed before) the Chief Technical Officer for IM / Subaru UK.
Pete, if the OP had changed his wheels for aftermarket items (assuming that they were the same size, offset etc) and he suffered a wheel bearing failure would IM / Subaru blame the wheels for the wheel bearing failure?
Perhaps you could check with your good friend (as you have claimed before) the Chief Technical Officer for IM / Subaru UK.
24 April 2010, 10:49 PM
#141
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Cannon Fodder could you fill me & a few others in on this leak issue please, i dont fancy the car blowing up in flames with the kids inside.
24 April 2010, 11:06 PM
#142
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Just have a look at the google search that I have put up above.
The problem is more of a fuel smell in the cabin really evident on cold days, the problem is on non JDM Bugeye WRX's.
I believe that two hoses and pipes have to be renewed with the equivalent STi components, I think the hoses may be longer but the pipes need to be changed as well.
This repair was issued as a recall in the USA but IM / Subaru UK have done nothing about it yet despite it being a known problem.
I understand some owners on here have approached VOSA and they are now discussing the matter with Subaru. There must be fuel leaking, I have not heard of any vehicle fires as a result of the problem but it is very disturbing to say the least.
Below is a link to a threads started on Scoobynet.
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...bo-recall.html
http://www.google.co.uk/webhp?rls=ig...86bed262c7af82
Last edited by Cannon Fodder; 24 April 2010 at 11:10 PM.
25 April 2010, 06:44 AM
#145
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Yes, probably after realising that they were on a hiding to nothing, if it went to court there is no way that the exhaust modification could have contributed to the engine failure.
Pete, if the OP had changed his wheels for aftermarket items (assuming that they were the same size, offset etc) and he suffered a wheel bearing failure would IM / Subaru blame the wheels for the wheel bearing failure?
Perhaps you could check with your good friend (as you have claimed before) the Chief Technical Officer for IM / Subaru UK.
Pete, if the OP had changed his wheels for aftermarket items (assuming that they were the same size, offset etc) and he suffered a wheel bearing failure would IM / Subaru blame the wheels for the wheel bearing failure?
Perhaps you could check with your good friend (as you have claimed before) the Chief Technical Officer for IM / Subaru UK.
All sounds a bit like a communication problem to me. Hope the OP has no further issues with getting it fixed.
Cheers,
J.
25 April 2010, 10:31 AM
#146
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Glad you got it sorted mate
By the way the IM Group and Subaru Japan are well aware that the 2.5 engine has inherent design flaws that results in piston failure under certain circumstances. When my dealer spoke to the IM Group I listened in on the call...it went something like this...
D: hello mate XXX from XXX here how are you
IM: Good mate, how are you
D: ok, anyway got an 08 hatch STI here under warranty with engine failure
IM: ringland failure on number 3 was it
D: yeah, one of those again mate
IM: ok
I understand a few factory / press cars also had similar ringland failure, but these were only during/after having been thrashed on the track and therefore this was not considered to be an issue that was big enough to need to be addressed for the rest. How wrong they were...
The problem can be addressed by re-mapping the ECU, but the problem is a combination of the original ECU map agressively cutting fuel, the way the standard fuel rail distrubutes fuel unevenly to the 4 cylinders and the piston design on the 2.5 (not a great deal of strength in the piston skirt for the material used). To add to this some say number 3 runs hotter than the rest on Subaru's due to it being the closest to the turbo and therefore if your oil levels are low or you get surge issues this is usually the first piston to fail.
Some people may never have any problems (even if they go on the track), but you can see from the above how these factors could add up to cause det & piston failure if you had a bad batch of fuel (or stuck some 95 ron in) and thrashed it on your way home one night...
So if you want the ultimate fix fit forged engine internals, a new/custom fuel rail, get a bespoke re-map and only run it on VPower fuel. These changes would push the cost of the standard car too high for Subaru's average customers (check out the price of the Cosworth STI) so Subaru will not be doing this for you in a hurry...
By the way the IM Group and Subaru Japan are well aware that the 2.5 engine has inherent design flaws that results in piston failure under certain circumstances. When my dealer spoke to the IM Group I listened in on the call...it went something like this...
D: hello mate XXX from XXX here how are you
IM: Good mate, how are you
D: ok, anyway got an 08 hatch STI here under warranty with engine failure
IM: ringland failure on number 3 was it
D: yeah, one of those again mate
IM: ok
I understand a few factory / press cars also had similar ringland failure, but these were only during/after having been thrashed on the track and therefore this was not considered to be an issue that was big enough to need to be addressed for the rest. How wrong they were...
The problem can be addressed by re-mapping the ECU, but the problem is a combination of the original ECU map agressively cutting fuel, the way the standard fuel rail distrubutes fuel unevenly to the 4 cylinders and the piston design on the 2.5 (not a great deal of strength in the piston skirt for the material used). To add to this some say number 3 runs hotter than the rest on Subaru's due to it being the closest to the turbo and therefore if your oil levels are low or you get surge issues this is usually the first piston to fail.
Some people may never have any problems (even if they go on the track), but you can see from the above how these factors could add up to cause det & piston failure if you had a bad batch of fuel (or stuck some 95 ron in) and thrashed it on your way home one night...
So if you want the ultimate fix fit forged engine internals, a new/custom fuel rail, get a bespoke re-map and only run it on VPower fuel. These changes would push the cost of the standard car too high for Subaru's average customers (check out the price of the Cosworth STI) so Subaru will not be doing this for you in a hurry...
Last edited by Dave_P; 25 April 2010 at 01:00 PM.
25 April 2010, 11:27 AM
#147
following your advice Dave (thanks for the PM) I have sent an email to the managing Director and Chief Technician I have been dealing with at S(UK) although £800 of my own money to sort a problem that should be resolved by a recall is not something I'm happy about.
25 April 2010, 01:08 PM
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Last edited by Dave_P; 25 April 2010 at 01:17 PM.
