Dell Servers - any experiemce ?
03 February 2009, 08:01 PM
#31
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
most scsi and sas drives run at 10k, you can go up to 15k dependant on size.
HP dont do (or didnt) 300gb 15k SAS as yet. Also with the sas drives being 2.5" they also have a lower seek time.
MTBF is usually worse on SATA (or at least it is when I compare to FC Disks)
Also Raid 1 is ok, but if you buy both disks at the same time..
Raid is no Excuse for not having Daily Diff or Incremental backups and a weekly full (Dont like synthetic full on tape)
David
HP dont do (or didnt) 300gb 15k SAS as yet. Also with the sas drives being 2.5" they also have a lower seek time.
MTBF is usually worse on SATA (or at least it is when I compare to FC Disks)
Also Raid 1 is ok, but if you buy both disks at the same time..
Raid is no Excuse for not having Daily Diff or Incremental backups and a weekly full (Dont like synthetic full on tape)
David
04 February 2009, 12:15 AM
#33
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Couch Spud
Posts: 9,277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SATA MTBF is only 1/3 of SAS MTBF
HP have a very good in depth document on why you should never use SATA on a Server
and the above MTBF is only one line in the multi page document
HP have a very good in depth document on why you should never use SATA on a Server
and the above MTBF is only one line in the multi page document
05 February 2009, 11:51 AM
#34
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just checked Dell's website and they supply SATA drives on their entry level servers.
We've only got 20 users and they're not hammering the public folder by any means. Other than that, the server only resolves DNS for the LAN.
05 February 2009, 03:49 PM
#35
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: High Wycombe
Posts: 3,763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I picked up a 2nd hand Perc 6/i SAS controller for £90.00.
Even new, they aren't that much & they come with cables, BBU etc.
If you are putting them in a "normal" PC, you may have to modify it:
The Perc6/i Raid 5 "budget" project.
Even new, they aren't that much & they come with cables, BBU etc.
If you are putting them in a "normal" PC, you may have to modify it:
The Perc6/i Raid 5 "budget" project.
Last edited by BlkKnight; 05 February 2009 at 03:51 PM.
05 February 2009, 08:31 PM
#36
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In fact I've checked HP's website and they use SATA on their entry level servers too.
HP ProLiant ML115 G5 Server series Small & Medium Business
HP ProLiant ML115 G5 Server series Small & Medium Business
05 February 2009, 08:34 PM
#37
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I picked up a 2nd hand Perc 6/i SAS controller for £90.00.
Even new, they aren't that much & they come with cables, BBU etc.
If you are putting them in a "normal" PC, you may have to modify it:
The Perc6/i Raid 5 "budget" project.
Even new, they aren't that much & they come with cables, BBU etc.
If you are putting them in a "normal" PC, you may have to modify it:
The Perc6/i Raid 5 "budget" project.
05 February 2009, 08:39 PM
#38
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question: The donor computer I'm modding into a server I've decided is a Pentium D 3GHz which has plenty of ventillation in the large (ish) case.
It already has integrated Intel ICH8R RAID which I *could* use. The idea was to buy in a PCI-X raid card like the £40 Adaptec 1220SA. Not sure if there's much difference in performance, but the adaptec software will email you any problems. I'm not on site that much so it seems ideal.
It already has integrated Intel ICH8R RAID which I *could* use. The idea was to buy in a PCI-X raid card like the £40 Adaptec 1220SA. Not sure if there's much difference in performance, but the adaptec software will email you any problems. I'm not on site that much so it seems ideal.
05 February 2009, 11:38 PM
#39
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
here's the SATA 'enterprise' disk I'm looking at - part of Western Digitals RE3 range:
WD RE3 1 TB SATA Hard Drives ( WD1002FBYS )
WD RE3 1 TB SATA Hard Drives ( WD1002FBYS )
06 February 2009, 11:48 AM
#40
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: High Wycombe
Posts: 3,763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The benifit of going with a PCIE card over an intergrated one is that in the event of a motherboard failure you can switch motherboards & not worry about the raid dataset.
If you get a fairly common card, they should be easy to replace.
Most of the sub £100 cards are shocking for an enterprise system.
You will need to get one which has their own processor (ie not host controlled). Dedicated memory (with battery backup) helps too.
If you get a fairly common card, they should be easy to replace.
Most of the sub £100 cards are shocking for an enterprise system.
You will need to get one which has their own processor (ie not host controlled). Dedicated memory (with battery backup) helps too.
06 February 2009, 01:51 PM
#43
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 2,611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Buy a nice HP DL380, don't run a mirror as this is a waste of space and time!!! Buy 5 disks minimum (6 recommended) :
2 x small disks, when I say small I mean around 72Gb as the price between these and the smaller disks is negligable now and build the OS on to these disks with a mirror.
3 x large disks and run a raid 5 across them creating a large data store
1 x Large disk as the redundant disk for both arrays.
If you want to run backups to HDD (not really recommended in the same server) you could buy two MASIVE drives to fill the last two slots on a 380 and mirror them and use them as a backup drive, this however is not recommended at all (but if budget is really tight then needs must)
I do believe you'll have to upgrade the array controller to a P400 as the std array controller doesn't support Raid 5.
HP have some very good software "Inisght manager" and all the rest of it which will capture all your SNMP traps, this will allow you to view the traps yourself on a daily basis, tells you when drivers are out of date, you can send mass driver updates to all of your servers as HP release them etc etc and with the use of WEBES (formally ISEE) the server can send the messages home and as previously stated HP will arrange for parts to be sent.
all of the above software is free (inc mail notification) with the acception of WEBES I think for which you need a maintenance contract.
and they have ILO boards (if you purchase the advanced license) so even if the OS is not responding (RDP etc) you can still trouble shoot the server and it's like sitting infront of the box.
HP support is very good but don't get caught out by the numbers ..... 4x24x7 doesn't mean you are going to get it fixed in 4 hours whatever time of the day, the 4 is a 4 hour response time so someone from HP HAS to have called you to diagnose the problem, if they can't do it, it get's esculated etc.
you say you're not on site much which makes the ILO your best bet, bloody great bits of kit!
the main question is what purpose are these new servers going to be forefilling?
2 x small disks, when I say small I mean around 72Gb as the price between these and the smaller disks is negligable now and build the OS on to these disks with a mirror.
3 x large disks and run a raid 5 across them creating a large data store
1 x Large disk as the redundant disk for both arrays.
If you want to run backups to HDD (not really recommended in the same server) you could buy two MASIVE drives to fill the last two slots on a 380 and mirror them and use them as a backup drive, this however is not recommended at all (but if budget is really tight then needs must)
I do believe you'll have to upgrade the array controller to a P400 as the std array controller doesn't support Raid 5.
HP have some very good software "Inisght manager" and all the rest of it which will capture all your SNMP traps, this will allow you to view the traps yourself on a daily basis, tells you when drivers are out of date, you can send mass driver updates to all of your servers as HP release them etc etc and with the use of WEBES (formally ISEE) the server can send the messages home and as previously stated HP will arrange for parts to be sent.
all of the above software is free (inc mail notification) with the acception of WEBES I think for which you need a maintenance contract.
and they have ILO boards (if you purchase the advanced license) so even if the OS is not responding (RDP etc) you can still trouble shoot the server and it's like sitting infront of the box.
HP support is very good but don't get caught out by the numbers ..... 4x24x7 doesn't mean you are going to get it fixed in 4 hours whatever time of the day, the 4 is a 4 hour response time so someone from HP HAS to have called you to diagnose the problem, if they can't do it, it get's esculated etc.
you say you're not on site much which makes the ILO your best bet, bloody great bits of kit!
the main question is what purpose are these new servers going to be forefilling?
06 February 2009, 03:28 PM
#44
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Buy a nice HP DL380, don't run a mirror as this is a waste of space and time!!! Buy 5 disks minimum (6 recommended) :
2 x small disks, when I say small I mean around 72Gb as the price between these and the smaller disks is negligable now and build the OS on to these disks with a mirror.
3 x large disks and run a raid 5 across them creating a large data store
1 x Large disk as the redundant disk for both arrays.
If you want to run backups to HDD (not really recommended in the same server) you could buy two MASIVE drives to fill the last two slots on a 380 and mirror them and use them as a backup drive, this however is not recommended at all (but if budget is really tight then needs must)
I do believe you'll have to upgrade the array controller to a P400 as the std array controller doesn't support Raid 5.
HP have some very good software "Inisght manager" and all the rest of it which will capture all your SNMP traps, this will allow you to view the traps yourself on a daily basis, tells you when drivers are out of date, you can send mass driver updates to all of your servers as HP release them etc etc and with the use of WEBES (formally ISEE) the server can send the messages home and as previously stated HP will arrange for parts to be sent.
all of the above software is free (inc mail notification) with the acception of WEBES I think for which you need a maintenance contract.
and they have ILO boards (if you purchase the advanced license) so even if the OS is not responding (RDP etc) you can still trouble shoot the server and it's like sitting infront of the box.
HP support is very good but don't get caught out by the numbers ..... 4x24x7 doesn't mean you are going to get it fixed in 4 hours whatever time of the day, the 4 is a 4 hour response time so someone from HP HAS to have called you to diagnose the problem, if they can't do it, it get's esculated etc.
you say you're not on site much which makes the ILO your best bet, bloody great bits of kit!
the main question is what purpose are these new servers going to be forefilling?
2 x small disks, when I say small I mean around 72Gb as the price between these and the smaller disks is negligable now and build the OS on to these disks with a mirror.
3 x large disks and run a raid 5 across them creating a large data store
1 x Large disk as the redundant disk for both arrays.
If you want to run backups to HDD (not really recommended in the same server) you could buy two MASIVE drives to fill the last two slots on a 380 and mirror them and use them as a backup drive, this however is not recommended at all (but if budget is really tight then needs must)
I do believe you'll have to upgrade the array controller to a P400 as the std array controller doesn't support Raid 5.
HP have some very good software "Inisght manager" and all the rest of it which will capture all your SNMP traps, this will allow you to view the traps yourself on a daily basis, tells you when drivers are out of date, you can send mass driver updates to all of your servers as HP release them etc etc and with the use of WEBES (formally ISEE) the server can send the messages home and as previously stated HP will arrange for parts to be sent.
all of the above software is free (inc mail notification) with the acception of WEBES I think for which you need a maintenance contract.
and they have ILO boards (if you purchase the advanced license) so even if the OS is not responding (RDP etc) you can still trouble shoot the server and it's like sitting infront of the box.
HP support is very good but don't get caught out by the numbers ..... 4x24x7 doesn't mean you are going to get it fixed in 4 hours whatever time of the day, the 4 is a 4 hour response time so someone from HP HAS to have called you to diagnose the problem, if they can't do it, it get's esculated etc.
you say you're not on site much which makes the ILO your best bet, bloody great bits of kit!
the main question is what purpose are these new servers going to be forefilling?
06 February 2009, 05:36 PM
#46
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: High Wycombe
Posts: 3,763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The way I see it for you at the mo is:
- Buy New. Pony up for support, knowing you'll be covered - Both Dell & HP Business support is very good. Machines are built to last & you should have no problems.
- Buy Used. Again full server grade business machine - in terms of RAID, build quality etc. Used kit has no warranty. Question over whether you can source parts. HP / Dell May offer you warranty - unlikely if existing warranty has expired. Consider replacing all disks with new.
- Buy New - DIY. Won't be server grade kit, won't be able to buy "service" warranty. Parts will be readily available for some time. Able to spend more on areas which count - disk & RAID.
It all depends on how much you have to spend & how important the machine is. (Should it have problems, how much per hour is it going to cost you).
J
- Buy New. Pony up for support, knowing you'll be covered - Both Dell & HP Business support is very good. Machines are built to last & you should have no problems.
- Buy Used. Again full server grade business machine - in terms of RAID, build quality etc. Used kit has no warranty. Question over whether you can source parts. HP / Dell May offer you warranty - unlikely if existing warranty has expired. Consider replacing all disks with new.
- Buy New - DIY. Won't be server grade kit, won't be able to buy "service" warranty. Parts will be readily available for some time. Able to spend more on areas which count - disk & RAID.
It all depends on how much you have to spend & how important the machine is. (Should it have problems, how much per hour is it going to cost you).
J
06 February 2009, 08:01 PM
#47
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 2,611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also bare in mind if you buy old the parts are only going to go up in price as they become less available.
Like I say what is the machine going to be holding/serving???
If the server is going to be holding business critical information it would be professoinal suicide to buy ****ty old bits of kit mate.
If the company aren't offering up enough cash to put in decent servers for important information you need to write up a proper business case of rneeding more money outlining all the pros of new kit and the potential problems in the short term and the long term of buying second hand stuff!
Like I say what is the machine going to be holding/serving???
If the server is going to be holding business critical information it would be professoinal suicide to buy ****ty old bits of kit mate.
If the company aren't offering up enough cash to put in decent servers for important information you need to write up a proper business case of rneeding more money outlining all the pros of new kit and the potential problems in the short term and the long term of buying second hand stuff!
06 February 2009, 08:50 PM
#48
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also bare in mind if you buy old the parts are only going to go up in price as they become less available.
Like I say what is the machine going to be holding/serving???
If the server is going to be holding business critical information it would be professoinal suicide to buy ****ty old bits of kit mate.
If the company aren't offering up enough cash to put in decent servers for important information you need to write up a proper business case of rneeding more money outlining all the pros of new kit and the potential problems in the short term and the long term of buying second hand stuff!
Like I say what is the machine going to be holding/serving???
If the server is going to be holding business critical information it would be professoinal suicide to buy ****ty old bits of kit mate.
If the company aren't offering up enough cash to put in decent servers for important information you need to write up a proper business case of rneeding more money outlining all the pros of new kit and the potential problems in the short term and the long term of buying second hand stuff!
08 February 2009, 05:46 PM
#49
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A DL380G5 is a lovely mid-range server with loads of horsepower and expanadibility. I'd agree that it's what you should go for if you have the budget. We tend to go exclusively for the 580s as ESX servers and they do a great job for us.
If anyone wants to buy a shedload of IBM Bladecentre's, though, let me know. I've got 12 of the buggers acting as paperweights.
If anyone wants to buy a shedload of IBM Bladecentre's, though, let me know. I've got 12 of the buggers acting as paperweights.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
gazzawrx
Non Car Related Items For sale
13
17 October 2015 06:51 PM
IWatkins
Non Scooby Related
2
06 February 2001 10:43 PM
