Dell Servers - any experiemce ?
26 January 2009, 04:31 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dell Servers - any experiemce ?
We're looking to buy in a Dell server, and so far the only experience I've had with Dells is I've noticed some of the desktop systems use a back to front motherboard design.
Is this the case with their servers ?
I can see a big disadvantage in the event of the servers motherboard needing replacement and waiting for Dell to ship one. Ideally I'd go and buy a replacement motherboard locally and modify the OS installation to accept it.
Is this the case with their servers ?
I can see a big disadvantage in the event of the servers motherboard needing replacement and waiting for Dell to ship one. Ideally I'd go and buy a replacement motherboard locally and modify the OS installation to accept it.
26 January 2009, 05:22 PM
#2
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Staffs
Posts: 23,573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A "proper" sever is going to use custom designed components for better cooling, expansion (cards, RAM etc).
We've had a HP ML115 in recently for a VMWare ESXi test box - quad core Opteron and that's pretty similar to a glorified PC. I'm not sure it's a standard ATX motherboard though.
Go further up the range and it's all custom designed. At which point in time you make use of the manufacturers warranty, with an enhanced response time if neeeded
We've had a HP ML115 in recently for a VMWare ESXi test box - quad core Opteron and that's pretty similar to a glorified PC. I'm not sure it's a standard ATX motherboard though.
Go further up the range and it's all custom designed. At which point in time you make use of the manufacturers warranty, with an enhanced response time if neeeded
26 January 2009, 05:40 PM
#4
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Lovely Lancing in West Sussex
Posts: 3,449
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We have bucked loads of dell servers ranging from single CPU up to 8 disk RAID array with 4 CPU's.
Dell have loads of different levels of support so you can choose a 4 hour fix if you like which I would suggest.
we have had a few servers with problems (A single drive raided but it was in a RAID5 Array) but all have been resolved in 4 hours.
Darren
Dell have loads of different levels of support so you can choose a 4 hour fix if you like which I would suggest.
we have had a few servers with problems (A single drive raided but it was in a RAID5 Array) but all have been resolved in 4 hours.
Darren
26 January 2009, 06:58 PM
#5
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We have bucked loads of dell servers ranging from single CPU up to 8 disk RAID array with 4 CPU's.
Dell have loads of different levels of support so you can choose a 4 hour fix if you like which I would suggest.
we have had a few servers with problems (A single drive raided but it was in a RAID5 Array) but all have been resolved in 4 hours.
Darren
Dell have loads of different levels of support so you can choose a 4 hour fix if you like which I would suggest.
we have had a few servers with problems (A single drive raided but it was in a RAID5 Array) but all have been resolved in 4 hours.
Darren
26 January 2009, 10:04 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Under my busted-a$$ scooby ... again :(
Posts: 485
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Got a dell storage server (2u rackmount) in one of my client sites for an ip camera system running twin cpu's and an internal 12tb array that's been trundling along perfectly happy for about 8months now ..... only time its stopped was when some bright spark turned off the air-con and everything got a little bit toasty 
Temp sensors saved the day and shut it down though so no hardware damage done.
Using their 24hr support service.
Temp sensors saved the day and shut it down though so no hardware damage done. Using their 24hr support service.
26 January 2009, 10:37 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Lovely Lancing in West Sussex
Posts: 3,449
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it always going to be possible for you to fit within the hour? What about holidays, when you are out shopping?
4 hour fix does not have to be that expensive, it's quite cheap on the lower end servers. I know money is tight with alot of people at the moment but a few pounds now could save the company going under if a serious hardware error was to occur and you could not fix easily/quickly. I would not put my self under that constraint.
Just my 2p
Darren
4 hour fix does not have to be that expensive, it's quite cheap on the lower end servers. I know money is tight with alot of people at the moment but a few pounds now could save the company going under if a serious hardware error was to occur and you could not fix easily/quickly. I would not put my self under that constraint.
Just my 2p
Darren
Trending Topics
26 January 2009, 10:40 PM
#8
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Lovely Lancing in West Sussex
Posts: 3,449
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not aware of a RAID 1 card that offers SNMP/E-mail alerts but I've never looked to be honest. Have a search, I'd imagine someone will do it.
Darren
Darren
26 January 2009, 10:54 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 1,822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We sell/install quite a few Fujitsu Siemens servers. The Econel range can be had for not that many £'s. RAID1 is usually built on the motherboard so it’s there straight out of the box. Comes with software which monitors just about everything and can be setup to e-mail alerts etc etc.
As with most servers/company's there are several warranty options.
One thing I would say about doing it yourself, you build a server now and you have hardware problems a few months down the line it won’t be so much of a problem as the same/similar parts will still be available. However you try getting hold of a similar motherboard a year or two down the line, technology has moved on and you find your current RAM/CPU is now also useless as it will not fit the new socket type on the new motherboard etc. Then you have to dick about with the OS to get it loading with the new hardware.
In our experience HP tend to offer the best support. Last year I was on site to look at a customer’s server, it had a failed Hard Disk in a RAID5, no great rush as system was obviously still working fine so I reported fault with HP while I was there. About 40 mins later a courier turned up while I was still on site with the replacement part!
They have also replaced motherboards (with identical items as the original) in 4 year old servers.
It's not worth the hassle doing it yourself.
As with most servers/company's there are several warranty options.
One thing I would say about doing it yourself, you build a server now and you have hardware problems a few months down the line it won’t be so much of a problem as the same/similar parts will still be available. However you try getting hold of a similar motherboard a year or two down the line, technology has moved on and you find your current RAM/CPU is now also useless as it will not fit the new socket type on the new motherboard etc. Then you have to dick about with the OS to get it loading with the new hardware.
In our experience HP tend to offer the best support. Last year I was on site to look at a customer’s server, it had a failed Hard Disk in a RAID5, no great rush as system was obviously still working fine so I reported fault with HP while I was there. About 40 mins later a courier turned up while I was still on site with the replacement part!
They have also replaced motherboards (with identical items as the original) in 4 year old servers.It's not worth the hassle doing it yourself.
26 January 2009, 10:56 PM
#10
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 1,822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The software triggers SNMP alerts for just about anything in the server, even when the front door is opened if you want it to 
27 January 2009, 12:16 AM
#11
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it always going to be possible for you to fit within the hour? What about holidays, when you are out shopping?
4 hour fix does not have to be that expensive, it's quite cheap on the lower end servers. I know money is tight with alot of people at the moment but a few pounds now could save the company going under if a serious hardware error was to occur and you could not fix easily/quickly. I would not put my self under that constraint.
Just my 2p
Darren
4 hour fix does not have to be that expensive, it's quite cheap on the lower end servers. I know money is tight with alot of people at the moment but a few pounds now could save the company going under if a serious hardware error was to occur and you could not fix easily/quickly. I would not put my self under that constraint.
Just my 2p
Darren
I'll look into the support options from Dell.
27 January 2009, 12:17 AM
#12
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We sell/install quite a few Fujitsu Siemens servers. The Econel range can be had for not that many £'s. RAID1 is usually built on the motherboard so it’s there straight out of the box. Comes with software which monitors just about everything and can be setup to e-mail alerts etc etc.
As with most servers/company's there are several warranty options.
One thing I would say about doing it yourself, you build a server now and you have hardware problems a few months down the line it won’t be so much of a problem as the same/similar parts will still be available. However you try getting hold of a similar motherboard a year or two down the line, technology has moved on and you find your current RAM/CPU is now also useless as it will not fit the new socket type on the new motherboard etc. Then you have to dick about with the OS to get it loading with the new hardware.
In our experience HP tend to offer the best support. Last year I was on site to look at a customer’s server, it had a failed Hard Disk in a RAID5, no great rush as system was obviously still working fine so I reported fault with HP while I was there. About 40 mins later a courier turned up while I was still on site with the replacement part! They have also replaced motherboards (with identical items as the original) in 4 year old servers.
It's not worth the hassle doing it yourself.
As with most servers/company's there are several warranty options.
One thing I would say about doing it yourself, you build a server now and you have hardware problems a few months down the line it won’t be so much of a problem as the same/similar parts will still be available. However you try getting hold of a similar motherboard a year or two down the line, technology has moved on and you find your current RAM/CPU is now also useless as it will not fit the new socket type on the new motherboard etc. Then you have to dick about with the OS to get it loading with the new hardware.
In our experience HP tend to offer the best support. Last year I was on site to look at a customer’s server, it had a failed Hard Disk in a RAID5, no great rush as system was obviously still working fine so I reported fault with HP while I was there. About 40 mins later a courier turned up while I was still on site with the replacement part!
They have also replaced motherboards (with identical items as the original) in 4 year old servers.It's not worth the hassle doing it yourself.
27 January 2009, 12:21 AM
#13
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
looks like some of the adaptec RAID cards support email alerts
Knowledge Layer :: How do I setup Raid notification for my Adaptec card?
Knowledge Layer :: How do I setup Raid notification for my Adaptec card?
27 January 2009, 08:45 PM
#15
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I like HP Support for several reasons: 1) my wife works there 2) The HP Storage solutions "phone home" when they have a problem so you quite often get an email from the storage to say a disk or controller is knackered followed in a couple of minutes by an email from HP telling you the part and engineer are on their way. Mind you, we did spend the best part of £1m on it
29 January 2009, 08:26 PM
#16
Scooby Regular
In my experience with Dell servers, I would recommend them due to the build quality but the weight is incredible.
The servers we built from Dell had a good selection of software & support was very good whenever a problem arose.
In all, you spend your money & you take your chance. The RAID arrays we built remained stable and easily configured from BIOS through to OS install.
As with most Dells, the fan speeds/noise is kept to a minimum apart from boot up.
Of course HP do make, IMO, the best servers. but as mentioned this does come at a price.
The servers we built from Dell had a good selection of software & support was very good whenever a problem arose.
In all, you spend your money & you take your chance. The RAID arrays we built remained stable and easily configured from BIOS through to OS install.
As with most Dells, the fan speeds/noise is kept to a minimum apart from boot up.
Of course HP do make, IMO, the best servers. but as mentioned this does come at a price.
30 January 2009, 02:04 PM
#17
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Please excuse my Spelling - its not the best !!
Posts: 2,538
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would stick with HP - as the above says you pay more but the support is much better.
OK it biased as we mainly sell HP equipment
Richard
OK it biased as we mainly sell HP equipment
Richard
30 January 2009, 02:32 PM
#18
Scooby Senior
Here's my experience, bought 8 low end Dell servers - R200's - nearly a year ago, 2 of them died yesterday and one a month ago. Not that happy especially as Dell keep bugging me to renew the warranty. I should add that these are installed in a trailer that travels all of Europe, so not normal conditions.
30 January 2009, 06:05 PM
#19
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Leeds - It was 562.4bhp@28psi on Optimax, How much closer to 600 with race fuel and a bigger turbo?
Posts: 15,239
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
HP all day long.. Just got a DL785 G5 on eval.. cant lift it 
Got a sun xw4600 M2 in too - Not tool less install and nothing to hide the screws where it mounts in the rack..
HP have it on servers IMHO, and Ive used all sorts including IBM, HP, Dell, Fujitsu, Compaq (Now HP) and white box trash.
HP PSP and Insight agents are by far the best, you get SIM for free (if you use it) support is excellent with pre fail notifications (can log calls via the web so you dont have to speak to pleb's)
As for things phoning home, our netapp does that - and it supports iscsi out of the box unlike the old HP EVA's
Got a sun xw4600 M2 in too - Not tool less install and nothing to hide the screws where it mounts in the rack..
HP have it on servers IMHO, and Ive used all sorts including IBM, HP, Dell, Fujitsu, Compaq (Now HP) and white box trash.
HP PSP and Insight agents are by far the best, you get SIM for free (if you use it) support is excellent with pre fail notifications (can log calls via the web so you dont have to speak to pleb's)
As for things phoning home, our netapp does that - and it supports iscsi out of the box unlike the old HP EVA's
30 January 2009, 06:30 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So it seems HP are the ones. It's a shame my budget is based on PEANUTS, or else I'd have an all singing all dancing one.
Instead I've spec'd up a pair of SATA II's and an adaptec card that will email if there's anything fishy going on. 3GB of RAM (32bit Win2k3 limit ?) completes this 'deluxe' spec!
Instead I've spec'd up a pair of SATA II's and an adaptec card that will email if there's anything fishy going on. 3GB of RAM (32bit Win2k3 limit ?) completes this 'deluxe' spec!
02 February 2009, 09:18 AM
#22
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Leeds - It was 562.4bhp@28psi on Optimax, How much closer to 600 with race fuel and a bigger turbo?
Posts: 15,239
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Oh and SATA drives have no place in a server
But - you could probably buy a HP MLxxx for the price of a 15k SAS!
But - you could probably buy a HP MLxxx for the price of a 15k SAS!
02 February 2009, 04:13 PM
#23
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02 February 2009, 04:18 PM
#24
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: High Wycombe
Posts: 3,763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Use SAS disks - not SATA
Like comparing a commercial product to a retail one.
Both actually are compatable - you can run SAS disk off a SATA controller & vise versa. I don't think you can mix'n match drive types though (I certainly cant on my Perc6/I)
I've a Dell server Quad core, 6 disk Raid 0+1. Been solid for the two years we've had it so far. Phoned the sales line to haggle - got an extra yrs warranty & an upgrade tape from DAT72 to Ultrium 200.
At home, I run a Dell Perc 6/I on a raid5 set up with SATA disks.
Like comparing a commercial product to a retail one.
Both actually are compatable - you can run SAS disk off a SATA controller & vise versa. I don't think you can mix'n match drive types though (I certainly cant on my Perc6/I)
I've a Dell server Quad core, 6 disk Raid 0+1. Been solid for the two years we've had it so far. Phoned the sales line to haggle - got an extra yrs warranty & an upgrade tape from DAT72 to Ultrium 200.
At home, I run a Dell Perc 6/I on a raid5 set up with SATA disks.
Last edited by BlkKnight; 02 February 2009 at 04:19 PM.
02 February 2009, 04:18 PM
#25
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Lovely Lancing in West Sussex
Posts: 3,449
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not just about speed, it's about it's relibality (under stress.)
SCSI disks are the future
Darren
SCSI disks are the future
Darren
Last edited by darlodge; 02 February 2009 at 04:20 PM.
02 February 2009, 04:36 PM
#28
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SAS is expensive
I was thinking of running a pair of SATA 7,200rpm, so not too fast, therefore cooler and perhaps adding a bit more reliability than a 10k SATA. Throw in the fact they're running in a RAID1 mirror and there's some safety margin there in case of failure.
I was thinking of running a pair of SATA 7,200rpm, so not too fast, therefore cooler and perhaps adding a bit more reliability than a 10k SATA. Throw in the fact they're running in a RAID1 mirror and there's some safety margin there in case of failure.
03 February 2009, 11:50 AM
#29
Scooby Regular
Arent SCSI & SAS minimum 10,000 rpm?
If using SATA I would upgrade the case cooling. Thats a lot to put on a pair of 7,200rpm disks. How many users are you planning to let loose on the server?
What roles is the server providing?
All these consderations need be applied to aid with reliability.
If using SATA I would upgrade the case cooling. Thats a lot to put on a pair of 7,200rpm disks. How many users are you planning to let loose on the server?
What roles is the server providing?
All these consderations need be applied to aid with reliability.
03 February 2009, 12:22 PM
#30
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Leeds - It was 562.4bhp@28psi on Optimax, How much closer to 600 with race fuel and a bigger turbo?
Posts: 15,239
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
most scsi and sas drives run at 10k, you can go up to 15k dependant on size.
HP dont do (or didnt) 300gb 15k SAS as yet. Also with the sas drives being 2.5" they also have a lower seek time.
MTBF is usually worse on SATA (or at least it is when I compare to FC Disks)
Also Raid 1 is ok, but if you buy both disks at the same time..
Raid is no Excuse for not having Daily Diff or Incremental backups and a weekly full (Dont like synthetic full on tape)
David
HP dont do (or didnt) 300gb 15k SAS as yet. Also with the sas drives being 2.5" they also have a lower seek time.
MTBF is usually worse on SATA (or at least it is when I compare to FC Disks)
Also Raid 1 is ok, but if you buy both disks at the same time..
Raid is no Excuse for not having Daily Diff or Incremental backups and a weekly full (Dont like synthetic full on tape)
David