C 8HEP

have to disagree. if you have oversteer u cant get on the power or it will continue to go sideways and not forwards. if you have understeer,learn to steer more,faster and harder.

i think if you go into a corner and you are not commited to accelerating hard because of oversteer then you are loosing time. unfortunatley, every car is different and there are alot of factors to consider but also driver ability.

it is true about breaking hard and the front going heavy thus causing the rear to step out but that is infact the rally way and knowing how to control that knowing it will happen will make you corner quicker still. just not advised for main roads with close kerbs. i spent 2 hours a night every night around berkshire putting the car through its paces in standard form and learning what it does will prepare you for it and you eventually learn whats quickest and safest

JTaylor

Flick the wheel and pull off a nice neat 180 deg J Turn and that'll be over steer. If you go round in a big circle that'll be understeer. Now this gets really complicated when you think about doing this in say a 4g Prelude with 4ws because the front wheels will steer passively and the rear actively and calls for a whole new theory of everything.........

goodness me I'm sad!!!!!

Fat Boy

Steering wheel has nothing to do with it - You can control skids/ oversteer with the throttle too and you can have 4 wheel drifts with no angle on the steering wheel where all 4 wheels are sliding sideways.

A skid is just an extreme version of either oversteer or understeer, as pointed out at length in the other thread.....

As for "if you have understeer,learn to steer more,faster and harder." FFS Ever wondered why our insurance policies keep going up?

C 8HEP

what has that got to do with learn to steer more,faster and harder?! r u referring to people crashing and insurance going up. what has my explanation of steering got to do with each individual crashing?! if that is what u r implying! eh fat boy?

ru'

Surely steering more, harder and faster would make understeer worse? I've never heard that as a technique to use when confronted by understeer I'm afraid.


Come off the power, steer less, and/or steer less sharply for sure though.

Fat Boy

C8 HEP - the "technique" you suggest makes understeer worse - as Ru points out - not better, and so makes a visit to the scenery by you more likely...

Sometimes reducing steering lock actually improves understeer - try it next time you are on a track

C 8HEP

so ur telling me that when you go into a corner and it understeers past the apex you think,ok il just lift off,straighten up and steer gentler. i dont think so! ur immediate reaction is to steer more otherwise you will be in the fields.fair enough come off power but as for 4wd cars its not so much of a problem.

considering that i was racing befoe i was driving,with a racing licence, i will stick to what i know. i always say each car is diferent and each driver skill level is very different

ozzy

Did you win anything though?

...... I'll get my coat

ru'

Agreed, same as when confronted by something jumping out in front of you it's natural just to stamp on the brakes. Talking pre-ABS, this doesn't mean it's the correct thing to do though...

I've never officially raced, and I don't consider myself to be an excellent race driver.

Fat Boy

C8HEP - that's exactly what i'm saying.

I didn't say anything about what the natural reaction of most people would be - which is what you described - wind on more lock, and get off the power which, in a 4wd, can take you straight into a spin if you're going fast enough.

It's all about the slip angle of the tyre, by turning away from the corner slightly if the car is understeering you can actually regain grip and corner better. There is a technical explanation to do with slip angles,loading, etc, but I won't bore you with that - just try it and see.It may seem counter-intuitive but it does work. Good FWD and 4WD racing drivers know this and use it to their advantage - those couple of % difference can make the difference between winning and coming nowhere.

Don't dismiss things so easily and you might get quicker...

C 8HEP

u make it sound like i have problems driving fast. i was only replying to a question from some1 above. i dont need to be told how to drive quicker. it also depends on the driver and car.4wd.4wd with dccd.4wd with a good driver who started off going into the corner at the right speed to start with! please dont refere driving techniques in my direction as im sure what works on ur scooby doesnt work on my scooby

Fat Boy

You sound like you've got a big chip on your shoulder about your driving. All I was saying is try it. It's not my invention or my technique - it's received knowledge from top drivers/chassis experts.

However, if you want to get chippy then I can be too - Your "technique" is not correct whatever scooby you have got, whoever the driver is, and whatever gearbox it has. Forget this bollox about your scooby being different to mine and stop being so blinkered. I've learnt a lot on here from people by having an open mind. Next time you're "racing" try it and see if you get grip/speed back or not. That's all.

C 8HEP

i think you will find if you turn in harder and faster you will induce oversteer thus decreasing understeer in the first place. thats what i mean about knowing what ur car is going to do b4 you get to the corner,before you slide wide.....

p.s im talking about before the apex. you are talking about understeer during a corner.im trying to prevent it. ur trying to deal with it

Fat Boy

Fair enough - we' re discussing two different states. I took your post to mean that if you have understeer, i.e. are suffering it at that moment, then steer more with a more violent twist of the wheel, which of course, wouldn't work.

Inducing oversteer by chucking it in, LFB or lift off oversteer or trail braking can all help get around it although it 's probably not the quickest way on a racetrack (as opposed to a special stage) and is probably beyond someone who has had their scooby for a week...

mid_life_crisis

Odd tyre pressures might contribute to unexpected behaviour. Depending on the tyre size and type F/R 34/32 might be a good starting point to experiment from. I always end up between 34/32 and 36/33 on 40 series tyres. My 4WD driving theory is you go into a corner a little slower than in the 2WD car, but then you lay on the power much earlier in a 4WD and exit the corner considerably faster. This is most effective in the wet when the 2WD car ends up leaping backwards into the nearest ditch while the 4WD still comes out of the corner at a decent rate of knots

C 8HEP

not 100% true.

if you go in too slow and accelerate before the apex you are going to understeer or oversteer wide. these scoobys pick up so quick it will happen. if you go in too fast and still on the brake then the front will go heavy and as u turn the lighter rear end will step out thus enabling you to go quicker round the corner if it is controlled. that would also require left foot braking i.e rally style but not advised for inexperienced drivers or on public roads. so we are left with fast in,brake hard,off brake at apex and hard accelerating out. all smooth. normal tarmac driving not rally style

mid_life_crisis

By theory I mean what works for me, probably it’s because I’m a ***** about going into a corner too fast. Also that theory comes from years driving early turbo Quattro’s which do respond to being driven it that style with their 50/50 torque split. I’m still working on the Impreza, speaking about the DCCD-A cars they do react much more like a 2WD car so maybe I need to get braver

C 8HEP

what car are u driving now?

can u confirm what u mean by 2wd? front or back?

i have dccd and i can confirm they handle like 4wd cars even without moving the drive to 50/50.unless you are actually going slower than i think in which you wont have any problems with grip liie you mention above.

i agree that 50/50 would handle how you 1st said but still something will give if you are accelerating that early with that power unless it is a corner with alot of runoff.

mid_life_crisis

Currently a 2005 STi with Prodrive springs and 18 x 8” + 225/40/18 92W Zeta Linea.

By 2WD I mean RWD not FWD, apologies for not making that clear since they are two completely different animals.

I don’t have a problem with grip as such, simply that DCCD-A in auto mode seems to divert excessive power to the rear for my driving style. Remember I have been very used to early Quattro’s with 50/50 torque split. My first Impreza was 2004 WRX, again with 50/50 split, which acted approximately how I expected. DCCD-A is extremely successful at killing inherent understeer but the car does not feel like a 4WD much of the time. This is most noticeable in the wet for me where I find manually shunting more torque to the front regains the 4WD feel, it also induces understeer, but it suits the way I drive. For me personally 4WD is all about how fast you exit a corner, especially in the wet where a 2WD (F or R drive) is at a serious disadvantage.

Please do not think I am trying to lecture here, simply reporting my feelings for discussion. Any input you have is much appreciated as I need to get to grips with DCCD-A to make full use of the car.

C 8HEP

to be honest,driving fast in the wet is a no go. because of the power it more like an on off switch and practice on roads just doesnt happen and track days are few so driving quick in the wet will never happen.

as for driving quick in the dry the diff fully open on green setting at bottom of display is something like 64-36 then moves forward to gravel setting 50/50 (diff lock) which shouldnt really evrr be used. as u move the diff forward it moves the torque split to the front giving the front wheels more work to do and less to the rear. still only 55-45 split before top light gravel setting. the steering is more accurate and heavier and more drive to the front which helps reduce understeer.

there is plenty of grip anyway in a scooby but for that little extra move the diff forward and it will corner better = quicker.

also it does depend on driving style tyres etc and u will have to change driving style to suit this rather than the audi (good choice btw)

p.s. if you loose rear end grip with diff in any setting it will not prevent it or adjust the power to the wheel that is slipping. dccd will work more power to the front the more you move the diff setting forward. it WONT do anything to stop oversteer/understeer like a skyline with that particular feature built in and like an evo has active yaw control.

mid_life_crisis

Quite try, I don’t drive that fast in the wet but I find it car be useful for working out what the car is doing. We are lucky locally as there are miles of relatively safe deserted roads to play on.


So you recommend not using the Auto setting? I have been using manual in the wet and pushing a little more power forwards, but have used the auto setting in the dry so far.


I love the early Quattro chassis, in many ways it’s still the best 4WD out there, if they had the power of an Impreza I think the right driver would be faster in the Quattro, especially on bad road surfaces where the Quattro excels.


Are that’s extremely interesting, I assumed DCCD-A would make front / rear torque adjustments subject to traction loss under power at one end. This explains why the car feels to me more like a 2WD/RWD at times in the wet with DCCD in auto mode. I incorrectly expected more torque to be diverted to the front if the rear lost traction under power.

C 8HEP

not on a scooby mate.drive hard an dmove diff forward half way ul get more front end grip.in the wet u wont be on the limit enough to notice much difference but move it to top setting but one for maximum effect

mid_life_crisis

Thanks, I'll mess with it some more

LDA

you lifted off mid corner?!!

what the hell were you thinking? there ya go you have learnt something. its not just in 4wd cars that lift off gives oversteer. ALL cars dont grip well if you lift off mid corner. just with the 4wd or rwd the rear has power so as you go back for the gas the rear wheels push the back round even more.
its a good way to drift but if you are trying to grip drive then its best avoided.

L.