jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

You’ve just perfectly made my point with your last paragraph!

It’s not right to label her a domestic abuser IF Flack’s attack scenario was true. The trouble is the PC snowflake society trying to be too good when in fact it will have a long term negative effect on seriously abused people IMO.

Anyone with half an ounce of empathy could see even from watching her on TV years ago she had mental issues, the real issue here is still mental health IMO.

What came first, attack or mental illness... I’d bet my house on mental illness so that is the issue! She’s a victim of her own mind first and that should have been addressed. I’m just staggered that someone so obviously struggling wasn’t given proper help and she’s in the public eye! Just look at that selfie she took months ago!

siluro

I do not buy this either or it is a bad analogy. Diabetes or Asthma does make you harm yourself or other people. How can you not control yourself regardless of your situation? As I said maybe I will never understand and perhaps that is good thing for me.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Tragic as this situation is, I still have to ask the question, who do you think should have been responsible for ensuring she was given this help? The CPS, the police, her family, her bf?

Serious question also, what was so obvious about her behaviour or the selfie you mentioned, that suggested she had mental health issues?

siluro

https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/15/carol...post-12246672/

This last selfie does not relay someone who has mental issues to me. If this is what people are referring to. Still anyone who is obsessed with putting pictures of themselves on the web for other to see is part of the problem.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

I would have to agree, there's nothing about that picture that remotely suggests someone of a fragile or unstable nature.

siluro

That's not the selfie he was on about I have realised. Not seen the one that is mentioned.

siluro

The more i look into this the more I defend the CPS. why are they at fault? A crime is a crime. If the stories are true and she tried to hit him with a lamp in his sleep, then it was a serious crime and CPS should pursue it. If she was so out of control why was she left alone, surely the people close to her should have been there. Even her best mate said she was in a bad way days before her death. Reading other reports she has history and her neighbors said she was inconsiderate and partied a lot and ignored her neighbors complaints. I personally think there is way more to this for her to take her own life.

An0n0m0us

Exactly this. The media have torn her to pieces since her arrest and now they revel in the sympathy outpouring when it was them who pushed her over the edge. It's disgusting and the media need seriously reeling in. As for all her friends coming out the woodwork where where they when she needed them? Which ones helped her with her mental state of mind? Seems to me none of them or she would have been getting professional counselling and being looked after a lot more carefully.

siluro

I agree but are you not fair game if you live this life. Not saying that it is right. Politicians get far more abuse from the public and media but manage to deal with it mainly. If she had such problems where were the people close to her? How could the CPS know if even the closest people to her did not express this or help her deal with it.

Felix.

My point being that we can not as a society ignore any incident, even if it was a one off - as this can lead to a re-occurrence.

So, any one who is in a relationship with a person who suffers from mental health issues should expect to be hit from time to time and just put up with it?
The perpetrator should be classed as the victim in that scenario as they had mental health issues first?

Felix.

All will play a part including herself. But the victim of the violence must also be protected.
So the CPS, courts etc can put an order in place on conviction for her to get help if it is determined that she is suffering from MH issues which lead to the attack

Each incident which is reported to police (even heated arguments etc) can be recorded and outside agencies become involved. So, schools can be informed and can support children who are witnessing such incidents and are experiencing adverse consequences at school or among their friends.

Felix.

Mental health issues can though - and you have no control over it.

Its like me and an asthma suffering running a race and me wondering why the asthma suffer keeps gasping for air.

MH is a huge subject and is not often comprehensible to people who have not witnessed it. I have known people who have multiple personality disorders, and the individual is not aware of each personalty they may be in at any one time. Quite strange to experience it first hand as it is like being with 2 totally different people and you have to treat them as such.

lozgti1

The victims are normally not 'victims' and are as much to blame in a lot of cases. Sadly, the police are seemingly obsessed with these kind of cases and not doing what the whole country wants them to do. Sort out the real criminals. All about DV figures now. And the person who get's carjacked, the person whose house was burgled, they are all in the ' unsolved and we did sod all' because we were having a cuppa' category.

Easy cases are the favourite ,sadly and easy people to break down and harass are the way to make the force look good.

Sorry, but zero respect for our police a CPS these days. In fact for the last 20 years.

Felix.

You think domestic cases are easy and straight forward?
You think that the victims of domestic abuse are normally to blame as well?

The majority of murders in the country are domestic related.
Are murderers not real criminals?

Funkii Munkii

F*cking tired of this Be Nice BS that has sprung up from her death by all these snowflakes

She was celeb and milked the media for her own gain, she played the game as they all do.

She battered her boyfriend whilst he was sleeping with a heavy glass lamp, he was recorded by the emergency services as saying 'she's trying to kill me', police turn up, claret everywhere him with a huge gash in his head.

She had previous of beating up a boyfriend the CPS felt there was enough evidence to charge her at which point her sap boyfriend said he didn't want charges pressed, well too late sunshine CPS are going with it as they should do.

Had the shoe been on the other foot everyone would be saying what a B*stard bang him up it's disgusting what he did

No doubt she had long standing mental health issues which needed addressing, again she could have done something about this herself but she preferred to wallow in self pity, not my fault blah blah blah.

She brought this on herself by her actions that night and her previous misdemeanors, had she not attacked him she wouldn't have been in court and ultimately she probably wouldn't have gone into another depression taken her own life.

People need to stop blaming everyone but her because as I said had it been the boyfriend the out pouring of blame would have been non existent.

Felix.

Its strange the way that everyone has leaped onto the 'BE KIND' quote that she posted a while ago and using it as her epitaph

But seem to forget (and not mention) that she clunked her boyfriend around the head with a lamp as he slept - not exactly kind is it!

As a comparison, Ian Brady used to transcribe loads of books into brail whilst in prison, which is quite a 'kind' thing to do - but we don't seem to remember him for that.

Funkii Munkii

Nor should Brady be remembered for his Brail translation skills

lozgti1

Murder or manslaughter?

Felix.

Both and infanticide

lozgti1

Too much bias and assumption is placed at the outset by people normally with three gcses or less and a fluorescent coat

Felix.

Where is the assumption exactly - emergency services are called to an incident where the victim is injured and states that the perpetrator is trying to kill them?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

You should be able assess and identify between coercive control and situational couple violence? Both are different and require different handling, if the differences cannot be identified then there is a training issue here.

I was under the impression that SafeLives training is available to police?

lozgti1

Felix, I like you and enjoy your posts.

Just think there is something fundamentally wrong now,common sense has gone out the window replaced by directives . It is so sad. Loved the old style copper as it were.lol

In fact policing is just not what it was. Just pen pushers now.

Felix.

Yes, just as we can assess and identify between other offences such as common assault, ABH assault, harassment, malicious communications etc etc

All are different, but the handling will be the same for safeguarding the victim from further threat, harm and risk
I'm not sure I follow your 'different handling' aspect

Felix.

I disagree, I think we are now able to use new legislation to our advantage and safeguard victims from further harm.

So, in this case the victim has an injury and has stated that their partner is trying to kill them. We should use the legislation to ensure that no further harm comes to that person as much as we can possibly do. Would it be acceptable now to do it the 'old style way' and right it off as a domestic and put them back together in the same house?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Safeguarding at point of initial point contact. Yes.

Afterwards; Not the same.


I think you misread read my statement: Differences between coercive control and situational couple violence. Have you had training in this? This not about the offences that you listed as examples.

Felix.

So the care and protection for a victim should end once the police leave their initial contact?

In this case he states that 'she is trying to kill me' and he has an obvious head injury. She is arrested and as a result of the investigation, CPS believe she has a case to answer at court for the offence. Is it not right that the protection for the victim should continue up until the court case? When the victim returns home from hospital, there is nothing stopping the suspect going back to the house too? Victim would feel intimidated, another assault may occur, the victim may be pressured into dropping the case. If safeguarding ends at the initial point of contact, there will be no necessity to arrest her at all.

Are we not then pressuring the victim to leave the house and find somewhere else to live? Is this not unfair on the victim?

2pot

iTrader: (3)

Common sense is unreliable. As it's based on faith - your experiences, your circumstances and your beliefs; not proof.

85% of the Earth's human population believe in a God.

lozgti1

True. Save most of think we can exhibit common sense