So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.
07 December 2017, 10:01 AM
#2101
Scooby Regular
EIRE cannot veto any decision for a border. They do not have the constitutional EU rights.
No one as said there will be a hard border and negotiations continue. The issue was tbat Northern Ireland could retain some form of autonomous rule from the UK but retain and use elements of EU trade and policy. but the DUP want non of it.
The violence is still happening, in fact getting worse so do not be deluded. Gerry Adams, a convicted terrorist, and his chronies had no choice but to end the violence at the time as peace was wanted by the North, South and the international team of negotiators.
And of course the open EU borders are proving to be popular don't you think?
No one as said there will be a hard border and negotiations continue. The issue was tbat Northern Ireland could retain some form of autonomous rule from the UK but retain and use elements of EU trade and policy. but the DUP want non of it.
The violence is still happening, in fact getting worse so do not be deluded. Gerry Adams, a convicted terrorist, and his chronies had no choice but to end the violence at the time as peace was wanted by the North, South and the international team of negotiators.
And of course the open EU borders are proving to be popular don't you think?
"EIRE cannot veto any decision for a border. They do not have the constitutional EU rights."
I never said that it could, so why bother bringing it up - but they can veto progress to the next stage
"The issue was"
lol, I know what the issue is/was
then just more irrelevant bollox
Nationalist terrorists, Unionist terrorists - so fvcking what!! that was then
why do you fvcking Brexidiot thicky ******* want to live in the past
07 December 2017, 11:09 AM
#2102
I think this is easy......the DUP want "all-in" with Brexit, then fine.
Make a hard border but only for the British i.e. Irish citizens can move freely all through the Island but British/Northern Irish citizens cannot and will have to go through passport control if they wish to enter Eire.
Make a hard border but only for the British i.e. Irish citizens can move freely all through the Island but British/Northern Irish citizens cannot and will have to go through passport control if they wish to enter Eire.
07 December 2017, 11:41 AM
#2103
Scooby Senior
I think this is easy......the DUP want "all-in" with Brexit, then fine.
Make a hard border but only for the British i.e. Irish citizens can move freely all through the Island but British/Northern Irish citizens cannot and will have to go through passport control if they wish to enter Eire.
Make a hard border but only for the British i.e. Irish citizens can move freely all through the Island but British/Northern Irish citizens cannot and will have to go through passport control if they wish to enter Eire.
So the Irish can walk freely across the border without any controls and you expect everyone else to join a queue for passport control! How are you going to stop non-Irish crossing over the uncontrolled point with all the Irish people? Maybe with some kind of nationality check... like passport control?
07 December 2017, 11:55 AM
#2105
Scooby Senior
The movement of people isn't really the problem anyway, its the movement of goods which cannot travel freely from a non-EU country to an EU country without customs checks or a customs union (as with Norway).
There are only three possibilities regarding the Irish border:
1. Northern Ireland is fully part of the UK and there is a had border to the republic and there are checks on all goods crossing the NI/Eire border while goods can travel freely between mainland UK and NI.
2. Northern Ireland has a customs union with the EU, in which case the NI/Eire border remains freely open and a hard border needs to be implemented between mainland UK and NI.
3. The UK as a whole remains in the EU customs union and all borders remain open, however we are restricted in the terms of any trade deals so that non-EU conformant goods cannot enter the EU through the back-door.
Option 1 is not acceptable to the EU/Eire and Eire have the right to veto moving negotiations onto phase 2.
Option 2 is not acceptable to the DUP without whom the government will collapse and its election time again.
Option 3 is not acceptable to the Brexiteers in the Conservative party who want more deregulation so we can import bleached chickens and GM crops from the US!
There are only three possibilities regarding the Irish border:
1. Northern Ireland is fully part of the UK and there is a had border to the republic and there are checks on all goods crossing the NI/Eire border while goods can travel freely between mainland UK and NI.
2. Northern Ireland has a customs union with the EU, in which case the NI/Eire border remains freely open and a hard border needs to be implemented between mainland UK and NI.
3. The UK as a whole remains in the EU customs union and all borders remain open, however we are restricted in the terms of any trade deals so that non-EU conformant goods cannot enter the EU through the back-door.
Option 1 is not acceptable to the EU/Eire and Eire have the right to veto moving negotiations onto phase 2.
Option 2 is not acceptable to the DUP without whom the government will collapse and its election time again.
Option 3 is not acceptable to the Brexiteers in the Conservative party who want more deregulation so we can import bleached chickens and GM crops from the US!
07 December 2017, 03:19 PM
#2106
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Perhaps they could have say 4 "official" crossing points say one North of Dublin on the East, another at Galway on the West and a couple more in the middle. Business users would be obliged to show a pass or stop at these borders and liable for heavy fines if they don't follow the rules.
Rest of border would be open with odd cop/customs car keeping an eye on things. Would need a Passport check at main ferry ports to keep out riff raff.
dl
Rest of border would be open with odd cop/customs car keeping an eye on things. Would need a Passport check at main ferry ports to keep out riff raff.
dl
07 December 2017, 03:33 PM
#2107
Scooby Senior
Perhaps they could have say 4 "official" crossing points say one North of Dublin on the East, another at Galway on the West and a couple more in the middle. Business users would be obliged to show a pass or stop at these borders and liable for heavy fines if they don't follow the rules.
Rest of border would be open with odd cop/customs car keeping an eye on things. Would need a Passport check at main ferry ports to keep out riff raff.
dl
Rest of border would be open with odd cop/customs car keeping an eye on things. Would need a Passport check at main ferry ports to keep out riff raff.
dl
08 December 2017, 02:11 PM
#2109
Scooby Senior
So, the deal is done and pretty much the EU has got the deal it wanted all along and the UK government has caved in at almost every point! It just shows you who has the most to loose from a bad deal!
The only concession that the UK seems to have got is that after 10 years the ECJ will no longer have jurisdiction over the rights of EU citizens living in the UK, although the UK courts will still abide to relevant EU legal rulings.
As for NI, the details are still a bit sketchy, but it looks like its option 3 that I outlined above: The UK will remain in the customs union during a 2 year transition period, after which, we leave the customs union in name only and will maintain customs alignment with the EU to keep the NI border open. My guess is there are probably some clauses in there that will enable them to switch to option 2 after 2 years and create a border in the Irish sea, but that will probably only become apparent in 2021 when Brexit is done and we're due the next elections where the Conservatives won't be worried about screwing the DUP!
The divorce bill of €40-€60bn, well I guess the NHS won't be seeing its £350M/week any time soon!
The good news for me is the protection of citizens rights, so I'll be able to stay in Germany without any hassles!
The only concession that the UK seems to have got is that after 10 years the ECJ will no longer have jurisdiction over the rights of EU citizens living in the UK, although the UK courts will still abide to relevant EU legal rulings.
As for NI, the details are still a bit sketchy, but it looks like its option 3 that I outlined above: The UK will remain in the customs union during a 2 year transition period, after which, we leave the customs union in name only and will maintain customs alignment with the EU to keep the NI border open. My guess is there are probably some clauses in there that will enable them to switch to option 2 after 2 years and create a border in the Irish sea, but that will probably only become apparent in 2021 when Brexit is done and we're due the next elections where the Conservatives won't be worried about screwing the DUP!
The divorce bill of €40-€60bn, well I guess the NHS won't be seeing its £350M/week any time soon!
The good news for me is the protection of citizens rights, so I'll be able to stay in Germany without any hassles!
08 December 2017, 02:24 PM
#2110
whilst it is better than I hoped for I would rather that I did not need a visa to stay in Holland (which I suspect I will be automatically given). I hope the Dutch government offer automatic citizenship for someone who has lived here as long as I have.
08 December 2017, 02:51 PM
#2111
Scooby Senior
What is so far not clear is if the permanent residency applies for any EU country or just the one you're living in. i.e. If you decide to move to another EU country will you still be seen as an EU citizen or as a non-EU citizen by the new country?
08 December 2017, 05:01 PM
#2113
Scooby Senior
So, on the day that the UK & EU come to a terrible deal for the UK on the first part of the leaving negotiations, the EU has secured its largest ever trade deal with Japan!
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42282116
Obviously we'll still be able to do our own trade deal with Japan and they will surely give us a better deal than the EU got because we're Britain and our economy is way bigger than the combined economy of the EU and we're Britain!
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42282116
Obviously we'll still be able to do our own trade deal with Japan and they will surely give us a better deal than the EU got because we're Britain and our economy is way bigger than the combined economy of the EU and we're Britain!
08 December 2017, 05:26 PM
#2115
So we're basically not leaving the EU then. 
Hope the pound jumps up now, off to the bank bright and early in the morning if it does.
Already sorted my permanent residency so not too worried about that, just need to see what happens with state pensions.
Hope the pound jumps up now, off to the bank bright and early in the morning if it does.
Already sorted my permanent residency so not too worried about that, just need to see what happens with state pensions.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 08 December 2017 at 05:29 PM.
08 December 2017, 06:39 PM
#2118
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Well I am TOTALLY confused by all this 
I thought EU prices are often different from UK prices so how can you allow an open border???? For starters VAT regulations come into play.
Does this mean that some dodgy EU citizen can pop over to Eire and then into NI and onto a ferry to mainland Britain without any checks?
Now you know I don't like swearing but has May gone completely insane? The whole thing seems to me to be a total f,uck up.
Anyone agree?
David
I thought EU prices are often different from UK prices so how can you allow an open border???? For starters VAT regulations come into play.
Does this mean that some dodgy EU citizen can pop over to Eire and then into NI and onto a ferry to mainland Britain without any checks?
Now you know I don't like swearing but has May gone completely insane? The whole thing seems to me to be a total f,uck up.
Anyone agree?
David
08 December 2017, 06:56 PM
#2119
I am not too sure what this means...
"The plan is that UK citizens in living in an EU country would get the same rights, although they would not retain them if they moved to another EU country"....
"The plan is that UK citizens in living in an EU country would get the same rights, although they would not retain them if they moved to another EU country"....
08 December 2017, 07:28 PM
#2120
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Strikes me as contradictory, given freedom of movement is one of the fundamental rights of an EU citizen.
08 December 2017, 11:12 PM
#2123
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Ireland was always going to make the whole thing unworkable.
But the thickos were too hung up on those pesky foreigners taking the jobs they weren't prepared to do in the first place (+other bigotted/naive nonsense plus buses with lies only idiots would fall for written on the side).)
Brexit is just a bad joke that will end up costing the UK massively.
The irony being that the reforms that will occur within the EU subsequent to our exiting will probably create a union we would have not voted to leave.
But the thickos were too hung up on those pesky foreigners taking the jobs they weren't prepared to do in the first place (+other bigotted/naive nonsense plus buses with lies only idiots would fall for written on the side).)
Brexit is just a bad joke that will end up costing the UK massively.
The irony being that the reforms that will occur within the EU subsequent to our exiting will probably create a union we would have not voted to leave.
09 December 2017, 06:53 AM
#2125
Ireland was always going to make the whole thing unworkable.
But the thickos were too hung up on those pesky foreigners taking the jobs they weren't prepared to do in the first place (+other bigotted/naive nonsense plus buses with lies only idiots would fall for written on the side).)
Brexit is just a bad joke that will end up costing the UK massively.
The irony being that the reforms that will occur within the EU subsequent to our exiting will probably create a union we would have not voted to leave.
But the thickos were too hung up on those pesky foreigners taking the jobs they weren't prepared to do in the first place (+other bigotted/naive nonsense plus buses with lies only idiots would fall for written on the side).)
Brexit is just a bad joke that will end up costing the UK massively.
The irony being that the reforms that will occur within the EU subsequent to our exiting will probably create a union we would have not voted to leave.
09 December 2017, 02:05 PM
#2127
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09 December 2017, 08:59 PM
#2130
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