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So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.

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Old 07 December 2017, 11:01 AM   #2101
hodgy0_2
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Originally Posted by The Trooper 1815 View Post
EIRE cannot veto any decision for a border. They do not have the constitutional EU rights.
No one as said there will be a hard border and negotiations continue. The issue was tbat Northern Ireland could retain some form of autonomous rule from the UK but retain and use elements of EU trade and policy. but the DUP want non of it.
The violence is still happening, in fact getting worse so do not be deluded. Gerry Adams, a convicted terrorist, and his chronies had no choice but to end the violence at the time as peace was wanted by the North, South and the international team of negotiators.
And of course the open EU borders are proving to be popular don't you think?

"EIRE cannot veto any decision for a border. They do not have the constitutional EU rights."


I never said that it could, so why bother bringing it up - but they can veto progress to the next stage


"The issue was"


lol, I know what the issue is/was

then just more irrelevant bollox

Nationalist terrorists, Unionist terrorists - so fvcking what!! that was then

why do you fvcking Brexidiot thicky ******* want to live in the past
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Old 07 December 2017, 12:09 PM   #2102
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I think this is easy......the DUP want "all-in" with Brexit, then fine.

Make a hard border but only for the British i.e. Irish citizens can move freely all through the Island but British/Northern Irish citizens cannot and will have to go through passport control if they wish to enter Eire.
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Old 07 December 2017, 12:41 PM   #2103
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I think this is easy......the DUP want "all-in" with Brexit, then fine.

Make a hard border but only for the British i.e. Irish citizens can move freely all through the Island but British/Northern Irish citizens cannot and will have to go through passport control if they wish to enter Eire.
Really? How is that ever going to work?

So the Irish can walk freely across the border without any controls and you expect everyone else to join a queue for passport control! How are you going to stop non-Irish crossing over the uncontrolled point with all the Irish people? Maybe with some kind of nationality check... like passport control?
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Old 07 December 2017, 12:52 PM   #2104
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Yeah, was really well thought out lol
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Old 07 December 2017, 12:55 PM   #2105
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The movement of people isn't really the problem anyway, its the movement of goods which cannot travel freely from a non-EU country to an EU country without customs checks or a customs union (as with Norway).

There are only three possibilities regarding the Irish border:

1. Northern Ireland is fully part of the UK and there is a had border to the republic and there are checks on all goods crossing the NI/Eire border while goods can travel freely between mainland UK and NI.

2. Northern Ireland has a customs union with the EU, in which case the NI/Eire border remains freely open and a hard border needs to be implemented between mainland UK and NI.

3. The UK as a whole remains in the EU customs union and all borders remain open, however we are restricted in the terms of any trade deals so that non-EU conformant goods cannot enter the EU through the back-door.


Option 1 is not acceptable to the EU/Eire and Eire have the right to veto moving negotiations onto phase 2.

Option 2 is not acceptable to the DUP without whom the government will collapse and its election time again.

Option 3 is not acceptable to the Brexiteers in the Conservative party who want more deregulation so we can import bleached chickens and GM crops from the US!
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Old 07 December 2017, 04:19 PM   #2106
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Perhaps they could have say 4 "official" crossing points say one North of Dublin on the East, another at Galway on the West and a couple more in the middle. Business users would be obliged to show a pass or stop at these borders and liable for heavy fines if they don't follow the rules.


Rest of border would be open with odd cop/customs car keeping an eye on things. Would need a Passport check at main ferry ports to keep out riff raff.


dl
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Old 07 December 2017, 04:33 PM   #2107
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Perhaps they could have say 4 "official" crossing points say one North of Dublin on the East, another at Galway on the West and a couple more in the middle. Business users would be obliged to show a pass or stop at these borders and liable for heavy fines if they don't follow the rules.


Rest of border would be open with odd cop/customs car keeping an eye on things. Would need a Passport check at main ferry ports to keep out riff raff.


dl
Its pretty easy to control HGV's crossing the border that way, but there will be so much smuggling in car boots going on, its completely unworkable! You cannot rely on peoples honesty!
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Old 07 December 2017, 05:01 PM   #2108
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Is it true that Germany has hundreds of regulatory alignments ?
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Old 08 December 2017, 03:11 PM   #2109
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So, the deal is done and pretty much the EU has got the deal it wanted all along and the UK government has caved in at almost every point! It just shows you who has the most to loose from a bad deal!

The only concession that the UK seems to have got is that after 10 years the ECJ will no longer have jurisdiction over the rights of EU citizens living in the UK, although the UK courts will still abide to relevant EU legal rulings.

As for NI, the details are still a bit sketchy, but it looks like its option 3 that I outlined above: The UK will remain in the customs union during a 2 year transition period, after which, we leave the customs union in name only and will maintain customs alignment with the EU to keep the NI border open. My guess is there are probably some clauses in there that will enable them to switch to option 2 after 2 years and create a border in the Irish sea, but that will probably only become apparent in 2021 when Brexit is done and we're due the next elections where the Conservatives won't be worried about screwing the DUP!

The divorce bill of €40-€60bn, well I guess the NHS won't be seeing its 350M/week any time soon!

The good news for me is the protection of citizens rights, so I'll be able to stay in Germany without any hassles!
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Old 08 December 2017, 03:24 PM   #2110
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whilst it is better than I hoped for I would rather that I did not need a visa to stay in Holland (which I suspect I will be automatically given). I hope the Dutch government offer automatic citizenship for someone who has lived here as long as I have.
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Old 08 December 2017, 03:51 PM   #2111
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whilst it is better than I hoped for I would rather that I did not need a visa to stay in Holland (which I suspect I will be automatically given). I hope the Dutch government offer automatic citizenship for someone who has lived here as long as I have.
From what I've read today, all Brits already living in the EU on the date we leave will maintain the rights that they have today. After 5 years of residency you will be entitled to permanent residency which will be maintained as long as you don't leave the EU for more than 5 years.

What is so far not clear is if the permanent residency applies for any EU country or just the one you're living in. i.e. If you decide to move to another EU country will you still be seen as an EU citizen or as a non-EU citizen by the new country?
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Old 08 December 2017, 04:13 PM   #2112
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I have a horrible feeling it will be the latter
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Old 08 December 2017, 06:01 PM   #2113
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So, on the day that the UK & EU come to a terrible deal for the UK on the first part of the leaving negotiations, the EU has secured its largest ever trade deal with Japan!

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42282116

Obviously we'll still be able to do our own trade deal with Japan and they will surely give us a better deal than the EU got because we're Britain and our economy is way bigger than the combined economy of the EU and we're Britain!
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Old 08 December 2017, 06:20 PM   #2114
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I notice the pro-Brexit people are very quiet today.....considering such a historic agreement has been reached.
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Old 08 December 2017, 06:26 PM   #2115
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So we're basically not leaving the EU then.

Hope the pound jumps up now, off to the bank bright and early in the morning if it does.

Already sorted my permanent residency so not too worried about that, just need to see what happens with state pensions.

Last edited by ditchmyster; 08 December 2017 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 08 December 2017, 06:36 PM   #2116
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Faridge is whinging , don't you worry !

Last edited by dpb; 08 December 2017 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 08 December 2017, 07:31 PM   #2117
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No mention of the Japan trade deal on the 6 o'clock news tonight
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Old 08 December 2017, 07:39 PM   #2118
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Well I am TOTALLY confused by all this


I thought EU prices are often different from UK prices so how can you allow an open border???? For starters VAT regulations come into play.


Does this mean that some dodgy EU citizen can pop over to Eire and then into NI and onto a ferry to mainland Britain without any checks?


Now you know I don't like swearing but has May gone completely insane? The whole thing seems to me to be a total f,uck up.


Anyone agree?


David
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Old 08 December 2017, 07:56 PM   #2119
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I am not too sure what this means...

"The plan is that UK citizens in living in an EU country would get the same rights, although they would not retain them if they moved to another EU country"....
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Old 08 December 2017, 08:28 PM   #2120
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Quote:
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I am not too sure what this means...

"The plan is that UK citizens in living in an EU country would get the same rights, although they would not retain them if they moved to another EU country"....
Strikes me as contradictory, given freedom of movement is one of the fundamental rights of an EU citizen.
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Old 08 December 2017, 09:57 PM   #2121
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Strikes me as contradictory, given freedom of movement is one of the fundamental rights of an EU citizen.

​​​​​​There seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors going on presently.
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Old 08 December 2017, 10:00 PM   #2122
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Agreed, I don’t think the general public will get much of a true indication of what Brexit will look like untill we actually leave the EU.
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Old 09 December 2017, 12:12 AM   #2123
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Ireland was always going to make the whole thing unworkable.
But the thickos were too hung up on those pesky foreigners taking the jobs they weren't prepared to do in the first place (+other bigotted/naive nonsense plus buses with lies only idiots would fall for written on the side).)

Brexit is just a bad joke that will end up costing the UK massively.
The irony being that the reforms that will occur within the EU subsequent to our exiting will probably create a union we would have not voted to leave.
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Old 09 December 2017, 01:27 AM   #2124
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North Korea Kimi , might just have a say yet , save us all the bother.
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Old 09 December 2017, 07:53 AM   #2125
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Ireland was always going to make the whole thing unworkable.
But the thickos were too hung up on those pesky foreigners taking the jobs they weren't prepared to do in the first place (+other bigotted/naive nonsense plus buses with lies only idiots would fall for written on the side).)

Brexit is just a bad joke that will end up costing the UK massively.
The irony being that the reforms that will occur within the EU subsequent to our exiting will probably create a union we would have not voted to leave.
The EU is full steam ahead currently to become one Federal state. It will get there or many will leave before it does. I'm not sure 2 or 3 countries make a federal state.
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Old 09 December 2017, 11:42 AM   #2126
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Germany on its own is a federal state ,as is the whole of the USA , Canada most of South America , the whole of Australia , India , etc
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Old 09 December 2017, 03:05 PM   #2127
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The EU is full steam ahead currently to become one Federal state. It will get there or many will leave before it does. I'm not sure 2 or 3 countries make a federal state.
It works just fine over in America. Not sure what the problem is personally.
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Old 09 December 2017, 09:10 PM   #2128
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It works just fine over in America. Not sure what the problem is personally.
Different time in history. Many of the European countries are precious of their national identity and don't want to it to be taken from them. France and Germany are really the only countries pushing the federal idea
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Old 09 December 2017, 09:48 PM   #2129
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How many countries in the world have this perception that its a Federal takeover anyway
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Old 09 December 2017, 09:59 PM   #2130
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Different time in history. Many of the European countries are precious of their national identity and don't want to it to be taken from them. France and Germany are really the only countries pushing the federal idea
If that's the case, then it can't happen
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